Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:I start on a trial at an early-stage startup (still in stealth) tomorrow. Any clues on what I should expect from companies where my employee number is going to be a single digit? Expect a wild ride, remember that promises are just words, and keep updating your resume.
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Feb 28, 2014 08:29
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sarehu posted:You presume that capital investment and entrepreneurial ability has no value. This really doesn't have anything to do with what he said. He's right, companies make money by paying their employees less than the value they produce. Maybe not on an individual level, but certainly as a whole. It's mindblowing to me that "companies exist only to make money" is somehow considered "paranoia" by this thread. I mean, publically traded corporations are by law working for the shareholders, not the employees or anyone else. Companies simply don't invest in their employees like they used to and it's all about the bottom line. Look out for #1 because your manager isn't, no matter how many times he promises you a great raise at the end of the year. Want to truly receive the fruits of your labor(and others for that matter)? Own part of the company you're working for, society is pretty much built from the ground up to favor the owners over the employees. If you're not a shareholder, you're a sucker. Especially at a startup.
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Dec 15, 2014 05:46
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sarehu posted:They also return to the investors, founders, and whatnot, less than the value they produce, too. I guess if you consider shareholders or investors producers, then sure. But for the rest of us with a brain, not really. The people who make capital investments are again, almost by definition, attempting to return something GREATER than the investment put in. That's why they call it an investment, hth
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Dec 15, 2014 06:17
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Misogynist posted:This is true for non-scalable commodities, like car tires produced by laborers in a factory. The idea doesn't make any sense at all with products that have scalable monetization, like software, and it doesn't stand up to scrutiny in even the most basic other cases. Steps in the value chain aren't additive. How does it not make sense? Do you think most tech VCs aren't trying to return more than their original investment? That's pretty much what VC is. It has nothing to do with steps in the value chain being additive (which I said nothing about might I add) Capital investment is about returns. It's right there in the name. down with slavery fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 06:23
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Misogynist posted:I was referring to your original point about companies making money by paying employees less than the value they produce. This idea requires a reductionist mindset in which the value of labor within an organization is strictly additive (an organization or a product is solely the sum of its constituent parts), and there's no inherent worth in managing the value chain to produce multiplicative results. In other words: to buy this, you have to outright reject the idea that the product is worth more than the sum of its parts. The bottom line is that labor is a line item and at the end of the day, if you're not a shareholder, you are a cost. I'm not saying good management doesn't matter or that entrepreneurship isn't valuable, on the contrary, I think that's why those parties usually hold some amount of equity in the company (I'd hope). Companies make money by selling their product for more than it costs. I'm not trying to go into LF territory, I was really speaking to employees as a whole as opposed to an individual. down with slavery posted:He's right, companies make money by paying their employees less than the value they produce. Maybe not on an individual level, but certainly as a whole.
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Dec 15, 2014 07:55
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Mniot posted:I recall reading that this is not actually true, which is believable because I recall a time when "it's the law!" was not the excuse trotted out for a company screwing its employees. This is actually pretty interesting, although he does mention that it's basically institutionalized in our society at this point. Either way, I'd still stand by the statement that if you're not getting equity (there are a lot of ways to do this) you're getting screwed. Didn't really mean to get into a conversation about companies as a whole, just to point out that it's way better to be a shareholder than it is an employee if you want to share in the success of a company.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:35
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kitten smoothie posted:My first observation upon going to the office was that they seriously limit the amount of work conversations that don't go in chat, video call, or our message board. It's like everything goes on over chat until lunchtime when someone stands up and says "hey let's eat." Even if you have a question for the person next to you it goes in chat. While that's generally a courtesy to keep people from getting knocked out of the zone, it also limits out-of-band work communication and makes it easier for those who aren't in the room. What does your office layout look like? This is one of the reasons I *really* hate open office layouts.
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May 18, 2015 15:59
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Mniot posted:And that management understands that if I were to rage-quit they'd be hosed (nothing special about me; we just have some hard deadlines and not enough spare developers). I'm not saying this isn't the case but pretty much everyone says this and it's rarely true
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Jul 22, 2015 05:32
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Mniot posted:Mmmaybe. I think if we follow this thought far enough then anyone doing sysadmin work should make infinity money (maybe true?) because as soon as they've got all the system keys they ransom them. Well for one, unions for software devs actually isn't a bad idea. Secondly, ransoming systems keys is illegal, so good luck with that.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:55
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Skandranon posted:I was only being half serious. The fact that the gulf between OK and Good developers is so vast is another huge impediment. This gulf doesn't exist
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Jul 23, 2015 16:04
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wwb posted:Those guys don't bother me so much as the people who are really, really horrible developers but don't realize their poo poo stinks. Typically this is combined with a religious love of particular stacks like PHP. Uhh I don't know about the rest of you guys, but this is pretty much how I've always felt about myself 2 years ago. Been doing this for over a decade and it hasn't changed. I don't know many people who would say they've been writing consistent quality code for the past decade by today's standards.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:19
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