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Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Some of those candidates did score really well on Codility, but we suspect one of them had bought his answers somewhere. The nice thing about those tests is that you can track every input the user does on a timeline, and they're encouraged to type straight into the web form and not in a external IDE. So, when someone sits with a blank page for 20 minutes, then pastes in a perfectly scoring answer, it doesn't look good.
If a prospective employer told me that I needed to write code into a web form I would do exactly the same thing because gently caress that.

Do you have screening calls or anything? The frauds are usually pretty easy to pick out at that stage.

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Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Do employees at that company also have to deal with this in their day to day work, or is it just done in order to give candidates a bad impression?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Inacio posted:

this but 3rd world

They already said that

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Jose Valasquez posted:

getting through the interview process is a strong indication that you will be a good developer (at least anecdotally this seems accurate to me given the people I work with).
Going by my coworkers there a few years back this absolutely isn’t the case. They have ample false positives and false negatives like any other company.

And now that they’ve cut a bunch of reasons for working there and added a lot of reasons to leave I can’t imagine it’s gotten any better. Everyone I worked with there who was good has since gotten out.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

idealistic, "change the world" kind of approach to business

This is fatalism, not idealism

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Jose Valasquez posted:

Having worked at several companies before Google I'm treated better here than I was at other companies. It isn't perfect and there are things I would change, but it is still a very good place to work. I work 40 hours a week and I'm encouraged to talk to my manager if I feel pressured to work more than that based on the amount of work on my plate. The few times I have worked more than 40 hours I've been properly compensated. I find the work to be interesting and generally enjoy what I'm doing.

I have gripes as well (most with the company leadership rather than with my day to day job, although there are some of those as well), but all in all after 3 years the good outweighs the bad so far, and whenever that balance tips in the other direction having Google on my resume will look good.

Out of curiosity, if you stood up at your desk, stuck out your arms, and spun around, how many people would you smack in the head?

By the time I left Google I was at around 5, maybe 6 if I put a bit of lean into it.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Does your office building exceed OSHA limits for number of employees per bathroom, where after being notified by an employee, the company solution is to park some “executive toilets” (porta potties on trailers) outside the front door?

I call them the OSHA-compliance porta potties

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Jose Valasquez posted:

Nope, you should have escalated your complaints to memegen so something might be done about them

Yeah, then I could print it out and put it on the wall next to the $1000 check from the wage collusion settlement, the offer letter signed by the VP who got a fat payout after the sexual harassment became too public knowledge, and the news articles from when an acquaintance got fired for talking too loudly about unionization.

Who wouldn't want to work at a place like that?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Guinness posted:

The tech interview already established you as "qualified" to work at Google, so from there you can theoretically try to work on almost anything. In reality, they still have lots of slots to fill on ho-hum teams so don't necessarily take the first team match if you don't like it.
New people coming in are super low tier because they don't know any of the stack. There's a strong correlation between ho-hum teams and teams that are willing to onboard nooglers because they can't find internal transfers.

If you get to that stage of the hiring process, don't be surprised if all the options are really boring. Typical procedure is taking a boring position, getting a couple good review cycles in, then hopefully switching teams to something thats actually enjoyable. However it's important to find a team with a competent manager because a bad one can trap you and put your internal "career" in a death spiral.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Before that you need your manager's approval, but they will hopefully be well aware that keeping an employee on a team they don't want to be on is bad for everyone's morale.
Is that new? It wasn't the case previously. IMO requiring current manager approval just means that leaving the company becomes the default solution.

In my last post, my mention of bad managers was just in the context of a bad manager leading to bad reviews leading to looking bad to prospective teams that you'd want to transfer into. If current manager approval is now also required then I guess avoiding a bad one is that much more important these days.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

taqueso posted:

i dont want to work somewhere where they call people nooglers

same

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

What I was told...3, 4 years ago? was that if you wanted to transfer out and you had been on the team for less than a year, you needed approval from your current manager. After that year you didn't. And if you were on a toxic team then there were some special options, though I seem to recall hearing that those were mostly volunteer-driven.

Oh right, forgot about the 1 year threshold, tbh it looks better if you hold out for at least a year anyway (also applies to jobs in general)

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I'm like a block from my office but I still like being able to play some tunes at home while workin'

A couple of my coworkers had already been doing wednesday wfh before all this, and I think I'll do the same thing once things reopen

Progressive JPEG fucked around with this message at 04:10 on May 16, 2020

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

A 25 mile+ one-way commute is poo poo regardless of where you are. The only way that's acceptable is if you're taking a train doing it. I wouldn't blame Denver for that.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

FWIW Scala strikes me as something that was really trendy around 2013-2015 or so and then largely died out with Java 1.8.

I'm sure there's still places hiring for it but that's probably because their codebase happened to originate during that trendy period

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Husband got a CS masters. He is already a developer raking in cash in a specialized field but is also thinking of going into consulting or academia where credentials tend to matter more, when his other degree is a humanities PhD.

But over the several years of taking the classes part-time he ended up picking up a bunch of things that were directly related to work at his job, so it ended up having that as a big side benefit as well.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I'm at a small NZ subsidiary of a larger company. Things are mostly back to normal here (for the moment) but we've been continuing WFH anyway. The corporate overlords would want us signing a bunch of liability waivers before going back to the office and lol at that.

The most likely scenario is that we'll have some arrangement of 2 "core" days at the office with the rest WFH. I'd had an arrangement like this before in the SF bay area and it was the most productive I'd ever been, just because I was able to organise my time between meeting days in the office and heads down days at home.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Inacio posted:

how's nz for software development (and more specifically, if you know, web dev)?
i'd love to work there

FWIW I've found that you'll want to have both a "push" (reason to leave current location) and a "pull" (reason to want new location) for moving. It's a long and arduous process - especially if you have pets. Biosecurity is a big deal so it's $$$$ to bring a dog or cat over.

I'm specifically in Wellington and it's been pretty great. Pay is about 30% less than what I was getting in the SF Bay Area, but it's still better than London (lol) and is still like 2x-3x median salary territory locally so the money goes a lot further. And as an added bonus I'm out of the Bay Area. In terms of local dev community it's much smaller but people generally know their stuff, and it's actually kind of refreshing going to meetups and stuff because they're way more pleasant/low-key. People don't generally treat their job as an identity and will actually have lives outside of work.

The main thing to figure out is the visa. In our case we happened to have 165 points of the required 160 for the Skilled Migrant Category Resident Visa without needing a job in advance, but that made the application itself pretty stressful since it's more thorough than for a work visa, and with our low points margin every component of the application needed to meet their standards or else the whole thing would fall through. The above link has other options that don't require as much up-front investment, for example depending on your age and country of origin you might qualify for the Working Holiday Visa which would basically let you trial living in NZ without a lot of up-front investment (other than upending your life to move overseas obviously).

A common route is to start on a work visa and then upgrade to resident later. In practice it's common for companies to be willing to sponsor a work visa here since that process typically only takes a few weeks or so (in normal times) and there's no fixed quota or anything to deal with, though it'll regardless be a subset of companies who will do it. But it's a small country and there's a lot of specializations where experienced people just don't exist in significant numbers, so places can genuinely be pretty desperate and willing to wait a few weeks for a visa to be processed to get the right person. Auckland and Wellington seem to have most of the software jobs, with others in a distant third, and between the two we liked Wellington a lot more since it's got a great cultural scene and lacks Auckland's sprawl. But if surfing or slightly less earthquake risk are priorities then you might prefer Auckland instead.

In terms of actually finding a job (once borders are open again), a reasonable strategy is to first book a flight and then tell a bunch of recruiters when you'd be in town for interviews, and can mix them with some regular vacation time to see how you'd actually like the area. But the reason for having the booking before talking to recruiters is that it shows them you aren't yet another flake that's "thinking about it". In my case I had used seek.co.nz and ended up with a rare case of an independent recruiter that wasn't useless: I applied for job X that I didn't quite line up with (they liked me but wanted lots of graphics experience that I didn't have), then the recruiter had job Y in the pipeline that was in very close alignment to my experience in distributed systems.

PS: It's illegal in NZ to give immigration advice without a license so I can't really go into specifics in terms of what your situation might be, and that's with good reason since the options can indeed vary greatly once you get into the details. In our case we just went directly to the Immigration NZ website and got everything we needed from there, without needing to hire an immigration lawyer or anything. In my experience every interaction with NZ government is pretty much as straightforward as possible within reason.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I've also gotten the impression that Swedish is pretty easy to learn among Scandinavian languages if you already know English, with Finnish/Estonian off in a separate group of languages entirely

fake edit:

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Hughlander posted:

My current thinking is that NZ is PST-5. If NZ opened a WFH Visa type I'd gladly pay double taxes to work 5am - 1pm

FWIW with DST moving in opposite directions on both ends, it becomes PST-3 for the other half of the year

Also NZ taxes for me are roughly in the area of more than fed but less than fed+CA. This isn't accounting for healthcare and no-fault accident/disability insurance being included

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

How many armed guards does he employ?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I just settle for places that are in boring neutral territory, where maybe they sell to a couple terrible customers among many, but they aren't otherwise actively terrible themselves. Given that the whole point of tech is automating people out of jobs, that's about the best I can hope for.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Hadlock posted:

No, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept that someday Microsoft would make the short list for companies that are not "morally abhorrent"

Either you did not grow up in the 1990s, or your long term memory is patchy, or both

Windows 8 was pretty user hostile and that got released in 2012, and although it probably scores a 2/10 on the morally abhorrent scale, it's definitely part of the long tail of their history

Visual Studio Code, WSL, GitHub, .net core etc are neat but they are all in the last 4 years or so

I mean sure FB enabled genocide but did you know that Microsoft once released a bad Windows? Think of the Products! What crime is worse than angering slashdot users?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Volguus posted:

If we forget about all the products that they killed, businesses they forced to go under and general anti-competitive behaviour for which they only got a slap on the wrist, they yes, all Microsoft did was release a bad Windows and anger slashdot users.

All I'm seeing is a list of things that the current generation of tech oligopoly are far worse at, accomplishing things that 90s tech companies didn't even dream would be possible. Sure, today's tech generation is getting a 30% cut of everything sold on their platforms, collecting constant location and activity monitoring from each of their devices, building comprehensive shadow profiles for every human with access to the internet, and building a shadow "gig economy" with the explicit goal of destroying the concept of steady employment, but did you hear that Microsoft once included a browser API in their operating system? Sure am glad that nobody does that anymore.

By the way, what did folks do with their wage collusion settlement check? Buy something nice?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Volguus posted:

Yes, today's tech giants (Microsoft is still one) do worse things than what 90s giants did. How does that absolve Microsoft from their past sins? Why am I supposed to forget and forgive, just because now others are worse? Do you just hand-wave the austro-hungarian atrocities in WW1 because WW2 was bloodier?

Do I hand-wave browser API integration when talking about powering genocide? Yes.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I'd always pictured the games industry as a great place to work if you wanted to die of a heart attack in your 40s

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Pollyanna posted:

Officially got a Senior Engineer title after 5+ years in the industry :toot:

Now to be told how I’m not actually a Senior Engineer. Hit me!

oh oh i've got one: When did you get your PE?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I'm an "architect" because that's the title they use for the pay band I'm in

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Ideally candidates leave with an impression that you'd be a good place to work. A bad fit may end up having a friend that you'd like to hire. Even if they don't, the world is surprisingly small and bad experiences are hard to forget.

I'd be a wreck if I had an interview ended early on me. I'd probably worry that I'd inadvertently said or done something really offensive.

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Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Hughlander posted:

The majority of Resumes I see for internships at least talk about their class projects a lot.

Is that after the recruiting filter has been applied?

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