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Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Protip for Google. Don't go for Frontend roles because then they make you do javascript/front-end questions for 3 interviews, then your choice of c, c++, java, python for 2. Plus since you're doing Frontend, they are free to ask frontend questions as well as CS fundamentals. (although I guess they mostly combine together) :eng99:

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Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

FTFY.

They have a pretty broken hiring process overall. My most recent dealing with them was a phone screen that involved writing Java that compiled in a plaintext online editor and getting nitpicked on style. I ended up with a correct solution, but didn't pass on to the next stage probably because I sounded totally out of my element writing Java in an online notepad (no poo poo)!

The previous time from that I was interviewed by a O(n) sperglord who wanted very mathematically precise bounds. Forgetting that he became a SDE after transitioning from a SRE, and that I was not interviewing for a core services group, that disqualified me too. Though that was slightly more justified I suppose, if you just take it for granted that that's what Google wants.

EDIT: though I suppose that sounds like sour grapes, a number of people I know have tried and had similar experiences in their rejections

I don't doubt that Google's hiring process is flawed since I've read all the horror stories. But who has a good one?

I'm guessing Google rejects at a much higher frequency than most other companies mainly because it can afford to and you don't hear about the rejections from the midlevel companies.

Anyways I went into an onsite today and they asked me the, "given rand5, write rand7". I've seen the question but didn't feel it was something that people actually asked. But I did get asked it and I bungled the answer. Not sure what I would have done had I knew the answer but when was the last time you had to worry about not being able to generate random numbers...

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





shrughes posted:

The idea is that they want to hire people who are not dumb. You don't need experience with random numbers to answer that question.

Also, now that you mention it, I've worried about uniformity of random number generation several times in my career.

Haw you are probably right. Except I didn't say you needed to understand random numbers to get the answer. I meant the question is something no one has to worry about.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





shrughes posted:

Well actually, if you want to generate a uniformly random number in C, you do have to worry about it. Whether you use rand() or read bytes off of /dev/urandom, you'll have to convert from base 2^k to whatever your number is.

Yes. I'll make sure to take this into account if there is ever a situation where rand() is pseudorandom but rand5() is somehow truly generating a number between 1-5 randomly.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





First, are you in the US?
Second, government work probably has less rigorous processes. If things were written well the government could hire someone else to do the job. Obfuscation = Job Security

It is obvious what you have to do. Move to another state where there are more jobs where they can pay you more. Depending on what state you live in, breaking a lease is doable for a penalty fee. It cannot possibly be more than the actual amount of money you should be making.

At the very least you recognize you are being hosed over and this is your first job and not, say, your third job before you realize this.

If you really cannot leave your city/state or whatever and don't want to break your lease. I would contact some of those other companies and see if they're still interested or have any positions open. Continuing to work at your current company is bad for your career and sanity.

Oh yeah and when you tell them you are leaving, refuse when they offer to raise your salary.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Ruby is the language.
Rails is not a language.

Ruby has existed since 1995
Rails has existed since July 2004 (9 years, ~9 months)

No one is going to get fired for suggesting Rails as their web framework. So I would consider that pretty stable.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

GNU/Linux is the OS.
Linux is not an OS.
:goonsay:

To be fair, while you are totally correct. Ruby deserves the close association with Rails, because that's arguably the framework the catapulted it into the mainstream.

Definitely not a startup-only thing, but after a certain size it won't be good enough to avoid a polyglot architecture or JVM layer (i.e. JRuby).

There was more to the post, where I also had "Java has existed since 1995, Spring has existed since 2003" Since Spring was the first framework for Java that came to my mind and matched my narrative but decided to delete it because I honestly don't know if the comparison was fair other than the fact that Spring is only one year older than Rails and would probably count as being for businesses. I realize now removing it made me sound like the Ruby/Rails thing was a huge deal. But IMO if you're going to make a statement about it, you should at least get that part correct.

Rails gets a bit of a bad rap because Twitter moved over to the JVM. I think that's a bit unfair given how much traffic Twitter gets over almost anyone else. GitHub runs on Rails and it works just fine. It seems the switch away from Rails happened because of an internal change in direction. Given Twitter's resources they could have contributed more to Rails and/or Ruby. Ruby 2.x is starting to see a lot more speed gains, but imagine if Twitter had people helping out with Ruby.

Maybe they did and decided it wasn't worth the trouble. I've heard Ruby is insanely hard to parse correctly. Wish I had that blog post where some guy tried to make a ruby parse then said, "Nope!" after going through and finding all the one-offs you had to account for in parsing.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Github - also polyglot. Used Erlang to serve up repos.

Re: Twitter
They did, it is, and they hired some really good Java people (i.e. Marius Eriksen). Twitter decided to use the best tool for them - I don't really think it's any company's responsibility to improve a platform if it isn't the product they're selling. There's goodwill and technical benefits to be gained from doing so, but not an obligation.

I'm not sure what you mean by serve up repos. Github uses Erlang, but (from last knowledge) used it to load balance and handle ruby processes. Regardless Rails is still handling the bulk of their front facing traffic.

I think you're misconstruing my post a little bit. I didn't say Twitter _had_ to help out ruby. What I meant was, it seems like the people who made the decisions preferred to use the JVM rather than Ruby/Rails. So rather than go the route of helping ruby get faster, they put more resources into converting to using JVM languages.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





One page, two page. Who cares? It does not matter. If you have a qualified applicant you're going to read their resume regardless.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Download Cracking the coding interview free pdf. (Note there are some errors in the book)
Buy a whiteboard.
Grind it out.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





I'm in a market for a new job. So two things

1. My resume (now that im filling in my current job) is obnoxiously long now, bordering on two lines into 3 pages. I was pretty okay with it before being about 1.5 pages but now obviously no one is going to read that entire thing. Is it better to start condensing every job or cut out the job I had ~10 years ago (although it was a pretty cool job)?

2. Anyone want to share experiences about working remotely? I would like to work remotely from a different part of the world where at best I can share the last 2 hours and the first two hours of the work day here in the US. I am not worried about my focus as much as being able to interact with other workers.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Right now my plan is to truncate the last few jobs into smaller blurbs while keeping the last two jobs current.

Honestly not even sure if employers even look through the resume.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





So I got called up by Google again, last time I wanted to interview for a Front End position at Google and I ended up with a bad taste in my mouth for their interview process for FE developers. Essentially the process was split into 3 interviews related to front-end/javascript and then 2 interviews with CS algorithms. I didn't really have a problem with it except for the fact that they forced you to do the CS algorithms interview in python or java, languages I haven't while the FE stuff was obviously javascript/DOM/HTML/CSS related.

Anyways they've apparently changed their process for this position, so I'm seeing if anyone has gone through this new interview process where it's all entirely about their FE stack, which includes Closure, and AngularJS, and discussions about web security, event handling, etc.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





New Job Status: 2016
Rejected from companies because
1. Didn't write semicolons in the javascript I did for the coding sample. Not the only reason, but just one of a sea of nitpicks about the code.
2. Even though I had a great onsite day-long interview which included the lead of the team, the VP Eng was not there. Went back to talk to VP, then couple days later got a call saying they didn't think I was suited for the job. The internal recruiter did say that if I saw any other positions I could directly contact him but I have a feeling if the VP didn't like me it's probably not a good idea to reapply there. thoughts?
3. Didn't get rejected necessarily but had a good onsite interview, but then the recruiter never emailed me again after I asked for a status and he asked me to wait a couple more days.
4. Wrote this huge webpack/react/es6 project for a big company (it's something they can't really use so it was more of a problem of wasting so much time). got rejected and only feedback was, "coding was incorrect"
5. Wrote a smaller project for a SV Unicorn Hype company. there was 4 bullet points that i needed to have in order for it to be considered complete. I made sure I did those and submitted. Got a rejection email a few hours later saying that they "have so many people applying and they have very specific needs that even talented people such as yourself may not be what we're looking for."
6. Talked to a recruiter on the phone, I refused to say a salary # when he asked, and again refused when he went with the, "we need to make sure we're on the same level" excuse. I countered by asking what was their salary range for the position, he said that he didn't have that number at the moment but would get back to me on the followup call. I got an email after the new year saying, "we decided to move forward with other candidates." there was no prior follow-up.

I had said I would never do projects that require more than a week to complete but decided to try it since I wanted to work for that big company. But after this experience, I've decided doing projects is really a waste of your time, so the company better be worth it for you to possibly get some vague, "no" answer for all your effort.

Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jan 11, 2016

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





I'm interviewing at a pretty large company. I've mostly worked at startups or companies that don't have any official Software Engineer <X> titles.

The position I'm interviewing is for front-end, a lot of emphasis on javascript. This is not a field this company is regularly known for being in but due to their product offerings they're hiring.

Anyways I did a "sample" test for them, and since this is a company I liked I went and did it and they seemed happy enough with it where I'm doing an onsite interview.

However, the position they offered me was SE II, I looked later online and they do have Associate SE, and SE I, but essentially this seems kinda like a demotion since most of my previous positions were "Senior" roles. I'm not sure how seriously I should treat that title and the actual job title doesn't have SEI/SEII with it. The next level for them is Sr. SE.

Can anyone familiar with "large" companies tell me how many years experience min. they want for Sr. SE roles?

Edit: Do these titles matter in the long run? How fast can I "move up" to Sr. SE?

Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jun 15, 2016

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





csammis posted:

There's no industry standardization for titles so there's no real way to answer those questions. Here's my experience with titles at a large company:

I was at a medium (500ish people) company that was growing their engineering department fast enough that they had to create titles. Some people who had been there since the company got started were now called "senior software engineer," some were called "software architect" if they were doing a more leadership role.

We were then acquired by a large (14000 people) company whose HR department had Software Engineer levels 1 through 5. The levels didn't dictate anything except allowable salary ranges. There was supposedly some tie to experience - you weren't supposed to let a level 1 stay at level 1 more than eighteen months before promotion or firing - but the "rules" as far as I knew were not written down and only came up with HR disagreed with a promotion or pay increase. The engineering department I was a part of cheerfully ignored the levels and kept titles the same as before acquisition but with more stratification on the leadership side as bureaucracy increased. By the time all was said and done my business card title was "Senior Software Architect and Development Manager" and my Peoplesoft HR title was "Software Manager 2" :v:

If a large company is telling you you'd be an Software Engineer II then (a) that means precisely dick outside of that company and (b) almost certainly is being determined because of the salary budget they have for the opening. If you want your business cards to say "Senior Software Engineer" I would ask the hiring manager whether that's even a thing at their company and either way whether they would put that in on their forms if it's important to you.

okay cool so they're mostly bullshit and just for the allocated budget. that's the primary reason i'm worried about it so its good to know.

since i've mostly worked for startups i have no clue about salary for this position so i went with straight refusal of letting them know my previous salary. then when i asked her about her salary range of the position she refused to give it up (lol). and then at the end just told me they'd have to make up a number (lol). i think most engineers would think about not dealing with this kinda bullshit and generally i don't. but i'm curious myself how much more they can offer in terms of salary from their straight offer. they don't offer stock at all and instead its a mix of base + yearly bonus.

when she mentioned they "put" me in SE2 I wasn't sure if that's good? bad? but it seems relatively irrelevant if they're continuing the process with me.

anyways thanks for everyone's comments (including PMs).

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Skandranon posted:

Including Google. They literally did a study on their own interview process, found no actual correlation between interview performance and actual job performance, but have not changed anything because they don't know any better.

iirc, they found that brain teasers had no correlation to actual performance at the company so they stopped doing those.

apple still does brain teasers fyi.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Rebus posted:

I'm semi-tempted to pursue a career developing embedded software for one of the many motorsport companies in my local area (southern UK). There are some high-profile F1 teams nearby that I've applied to but it seems like there may be some form of 'supremacy' they're after and I don't get many formal replies. (I did actually get an interview at one but the position turned out to be a more SQL backend type thing I wasn't interested in).

Has anyone any experience of working for a motorsport company and have any pointers on what may make me stand out? I really enjoy my current position (embedded C for hand held electronic devices and some .Net stuff for configuring them) but I feel like I'm not really being recompensed for the amount of work I've been putting in. I also kind of made myself a target to be bringing in £50k by the time I was this age (I'm on around £44k), so I dunno if motorsport is one of those "you're in it for the love of the job" type places where they use that as an excuse to not pay so well.

sorry can't help you in regards to motorsports, but how are you not asking for more now that the pound has dropped? i know salaries in england/uk aren't really that great overall for tech, but given the brexit I would consider bumping your price. i don't know the COL in southern uk but £50k is only worth about $67k, and i earned that much by my 2nd year (granted in a high COL city).

i'm always confused when i see the COL of say, london, and the salaries people make for a company there. london is expensive isn't it? why are people only getting paid almost half my salary over there?

on news related to that ($). i just got an offer from a big company but they are still asking me for salary. i stonewalled them a bit and then the recruiter said he'll tell my manager that i don't want to name my price and will try to come up with an offer after speaking to him. kinda sounded like he was going to tell the manager that i'm uncooperative, but i guess we'll see how that works out. i looked up their range on glassdoor and it seems like they barely match compensation for a startup so im not sure which way ill go on that.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





feedmegin posted:

National salaries don't tend to rise or fall based on short-term fluctuations in the currency, dude; after all, most of said salary is spent in the UK on things that cost pounds. Under normal circumstances that's more like $75-$80k, which for the UK is pretty good.


Tony Montana posted:

This sounds amazing. Wouldn't it be a case of doing anything, sysadmin if you had to, just to get in and make contacts and then demonstrating what other value you can add? I guess you could get stuck doing something you don't want to, but working in the background of an F1 team would be a dream job for me.


But that is temporary, surely. The UK is still the UK and still has the assets and value it did before the Brexit, it's just the market reaction which will rectify with time. Wouldn't there be crazy inflation nation-wide if it was a permanent thing? Surely a loaf of bread still costs the same as it before?
but how is it temporary? it's been a week and it seems the market has corrected itself to the true price of GBPUSD. whereas before it was ~1.48, now it is at ~1.33. the pound already had its rally from the low point and where it sits now seems to be what it'll settle on.

but that is not even the point though. you are applying for a job, you want more money, they usually ask why/for what reason. the brexit is not some random short-term flux in the market. who knows what will happen, but an argument could be made that you want to protect yourself from the current market and need more money to feel comfortable.

Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 1, 2016

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Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





are you guys talking about external recruiters?

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