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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Minimum PTO would be a much better policy if your goal as a company is getting people to use it. If you haven't used your X days on 365-X then don't come back until January.

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I've got a Google phone interview for the Pittsburgh office coming up after being randomly contacted by a recruiter on LinkedIn... Guess it's time to relearn my entire CS degree as fast as possible

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

I've got a Google phone interview for the Pittsburgh office coming up after being randomly contacted by a recruiter on LinkedIn... Guess it's time to relearn my entire CS degree as fast as possible

Scratch that, they want me to skip the phone interview and go straight to onsite.

Don't they realize I'm a ridiculous fraud?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Conducting interviews sucks just as much if not more as being the on the other side of the table. It's probably not a great indication of how lovely a person is to work with.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I've got 10 years experience and I wouldn't know where to start on something like that. I'd probably spend 6 hours just wrapping my head around what they are asking.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I had an interview this morning and it went really well! I didn't have anything negative to post! They're hiring a lot (but also interviewing a lot of people) but it was pretty great. Phone screen with 2 functions around collections in Java, one regularly then the same thing recursively. Architecture design, some set theory questions relating to functional programming, some relational database stuff, 2-3 more string algo problems, then discussion about trees and hash-tables and collections. I didn't do perfectly but I did very well.

How long was this phone screen that you covered that much stuff?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Just got the call that I made it past the Google hiring committee. What are the chances that doesn't turn into an offer? I'm trying to set accurate expectations for myself

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I'm just going to assume that until I'm in the office on my first day that something is going to fall through

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm poo poo but going to be paid like I'm less poo poo, how do I improve myself.

Fake it long enough for someone to pay you even more money

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Any advice on what to expect from a team match meeting with a Google manager? I've got a couple set up for Monday and I don't want to fumble the ball on the 1 yard line

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

My favorite part is how he dedicated 9 months to this one company and is immediately giving up after one try.

Immediately folding at the first sign of adversity is a good way to be successful.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

mrmcd posted:

Like if Indian body shops suddenly can't dump a bunch of bad engineers on MegaCorpShittyBank's data processing division, that means either a) They don't bother, leaving the number of available jobs more or less the same, or b) MCSB data processing adds a lot of demand against an inelastic supply, driving up wages.

Or c) MCSB just moves everything to India

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

baquerd posted:

If your company is tracking your individual working hours, you're automatically in a lower-tier company/position or in a company with bad HR in general. As an employee, that is, contractors of course track every hour.

Employees of defense contractors typically have to track hours as well, at least in my experience.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

When I was at Lockheed we did 30 minute intervals, anything over 15 minutes was rounded up.

8:14-3:46 workday

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Paolomania posted:

I went from senior SWE at a boring company to a regular SWE (L4) at Big G. I have no complaints. As everyone else has said, don't expect ranks on the outside to translate to those companies you listed.

This is what I'm doing too.

I think I read somewhere that the "big companies" tend to hire people down a level unless you're coming from a company of a similar caliber.

Unless you're at a top tier software company already I don't think it's likely that you're going to go from a mid level role at some company immediately into a senior role at a top tier company.

Maybe I'm just bad though vv

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

raminasi posted:

My Google interview experience was five hours of not being asked a single substantive question about any of my past work. Getting rejected sucked but the further I get from it the more I'm able to write it off as a ridiculous process.

The problem I see with asking about your past work is that you can just lie. I don't mean like totally fabricating a project, that's almost certainly going to get you caught, but you can easily take credit for decisions and thought processes that weren't your own.

You might be a grunt developer on a big project making no decisions at all but in an interview as long as you know why a design decision was made you can pass it off as your own without having the necessary experience to actually make it.

All interview processes are bad in my experience, nobody has really figured out a good one yet.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:

If you're senior enough to make technology choices, you can just pick a new technology to use for a project and learn it at work.

Maybe it's just the companies I've worked for (defense and investment management) but this isn't how it works in my experience.

At my soon to be former company people have been trying to bring in Node for years and it's about a year away from being usable by anyone other than the "innovation" teams that test out "new" technology without ever going into production

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

ultrafilter posted:

Bear in mind the original quote:

In 2017, Node is not a technology that requires a year of R&D to put into production.

To be fair, it is a giant financial company with trillions of dollars under management, not a tech company. There is a ton of infrastructure built around the existing technologies that has to be built out to support a completely different stack and since it isn't a tech company the business has to be convinced that it is worth the huge investment.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Hire a bunch of lovely developers so that you'll look significantly better than them when performance review time rolls around

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

prisoner of waffles posted:

Anyone have advice on working with (non-internal) recruiters? I'm in the DC area and it seems like the fraction of recruiters, internal and otherwise, contacting me who actually read my Linkedin profile is... low.

If "Linkedin is a blasted hellscape, not worth your time" is already your opinion, I'm listening for that, too.

Anecdotes:
Out of college I got a job one of the big defense contractors from an external recruiter who found me on Monster or one of those other resume spamming sites. The initial contact was kinda spammy looking but I was desperate and it turned out to be legit.

Also, I'm about to start at Google because of a recruiter finding me on LinkedIn, and I got an offer from LinkedIn after one of their recruiters contacted me as well, but both of those were internal recruiters.

None of the recruiters ever seemed like they actually looked too closely at my resume/LinkedIn. If the recruiter is asking you if you are interested in a job with a specific company that you are interested in then it certainly doesn't hurt to at least hear them out, it's potentially a short cut into the interview process and at worst it is a waste of time. I personally never waste my time with the ones who can't tell me the company/position immediately though.

Most recruiters are bad but that doesn't mean you can't get jobs from them

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Burnout can happen for any number of reasons. Being overworked is a common one, but that's just one variation on a bad work environment burning you out. You can even get burnout on a perfectly well managed team full of people you enjoy working with if you just get tired of working on the same thing for years. There's not a list of things that qualify for burnout.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

wilderthanmild posted:

I'd say that's pretty accurate. Nothing is really challenging and I rarely get to "make" anything or learn anything new. The most challenging tasks aren't challenging because they are complex or difficult problems to solve, but because they are long and tedious. At times I find my self deliberately over-engineering solutions to mundane problems to try to make the work interesting.

More complex and interesting custom development has actually been turned down because we are "too busy" working on these pre-built systems. Trying to get more interesting work, I created a demo of what could be made custom in lieu of buying a pre-built product for an upcoming project. They liked the idea and hired an outside consulting firm to do the development instead of utilizing the developers they already have. Apparently I'll get to "own" the product afterwards, but in my mind that's only slightly better than if they had just bought some pre-built product for it. It might even end up being worse depending on how the project itself goes.


The easy okay money would in the short term, but I feel like I'd really be sacrificing my long-term career if I wanted to be doing development. I really don't want to stagnate my career in the interest of avoiding all risk.

I almost want to go to my manager with "Hey, this isn't the kind of development I want to be doing. Is there anything else we could be doing?".

It sounds like your company isn't really interested in doing the kind of development you want to be doing and you aren't really gaining skills that are going to translate into another company doing stuff you want to do, so you should probably start looking for a better job

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

He's VP of Engineering but is responsible for a certain chunk of the spec work on this project because he integrates with the product team at "my" company. By "my" company I mean the acquired startup and there are three engineers from that company here (myself with 3 years exp and two seniors with 10+, granted were all new to this domain except the managers). Also there's an "architect" and there's a "team manager" both from the parent company, whose involvement has been limited so far but might ramp up soon it seems.

Thanks for the advice and words folks, this thread keeps me sane. One other question: maybe I'm looking at the wrong industries? I've done fintech, ad tech startup, and now ad tech mid-size and they've all been nightmarish in some ways (plenty of good aspects just very dysfunctional overall).

What are the senior guys doing about the situation? You're the new guy you shouldn't be expected to fix the world

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Pollyanna posted:

That sucks, though. Sure, you'd build up time, but it'd be in exchange for sanity and the chance of burnout. Remaining detached is easier said than done.

You're gonna burnout a lot quicker trying to right every wrong at a lovely company than you are just trying to learn as much as you can and gain experience without trying to fix everything.

Sure, fix what you can, but you're one person with no tenure and little experience, people aren't really going to give a poo poo what you think, especially at a bad company

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I worked with an offshore team last year. Code reviews alone took several days of back and forth, and most of the time their code never got to be acceptable and I'd end up just rewriting it for them anyway.

My productivity dropped to near 0 because all my time was spent babysitting the offshore team and cleaning up after them.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Any good recommendations for learning C++? I used it in college but not so much since then and my new role is working on a C++ code base. I'm coming from years of Java so the basics are fine but I'm drowning a sea of const* auto&& std::strings that must be rvalues.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!


This but replace NYC with Pittsburgh and live like a king on a Google salary with the super cheap cost of living instead of living in a $3000 a month box on the street like I imagine the NYC people do.

As a bonus Uber is in Pittsburgh too so they might pay you lots of money to download all our files and go work for them

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

My favorite part is that the "specialized software" that every news outlet reported he installed was just TortoiseSVN.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I agree with what everyone else said, make companies reject you, don't automatically disqualify yourself. Plenty of people who work at Google were surprised when they were hired.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Promotions are primarily determined by the number of chat apps you have launched

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Arachnamus posted:

Seems like it requires commitment to the long haul, though? Ready acceptance of things like the aforementioned CS-algo–heavy interviews and year-on-year ladder climbing.

You've got to pass the interview but beyond that you're not really forced to accept the long haul any more than you are anywhere else. If you don't like it go work somewhere else after a year

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

If you aren't paid fairly have you considered actually leaving? Threatening to leave to get a raise is a bad move all around.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

10 years from now young COBOL experts are going to make crazy amounts of money in the financial industry

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

If all COBOL disappeared tomorrow the world's financial systems would collapse

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Anecdote: I got my first job out of college through a third party recruiter who contacted me based on my Monster.com profile.

I'm sure there is a very low signal to noise ratio, but it does happen.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

HardDiskD posted:

What were the websites that practiced standard coding interview questions?

leetcode.com is the best in my opinion in terms of being similar to real interview questions I've gotten.

hackerrank.com is pretty good for reviewing specific types of questions (graph, dp, etc.)

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Iverron posted:

Hackerrank not showing the test cases is absolute bullshit.

If you can't take the 15 seconds it takes to look at someone's code to see if they're just returning the test cases then you deserve whatever you get.

In terms of interview prep I agree, but they advertise themselves as more of a competition than focusing on interview prep, so I kinda get it

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Vacations are typically planned months in advance. If your team can't adjust to you being gone for a week with months of lead time then there is something seriously wrong with your team. If I was forced to cancel a vacation that I had been planning for months I would send my resume to everyone on the planet the same day.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

ToxicSlurpee posted:

The absolute worst are the companies that promise unlimited paid time off. Unlimited vacation! Unlimited sick days! Unlimited half days! I haven't seen that advertised much in a while as it turned out that companies that did that had a real tendency to heap so much work on you that you never, ever had the opportunity to actually use your supposedly unlimited PTO.
Definitely agree with this. I interviewed with a company in January that has unlimited vacation. During lunch I asked the engineer I was having lunch with how much people really take and she said two weeks like that was a good answer.

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

minato posted:

This is how it works at Facebook, basically. Speed is valued over software quality. Which is fine when you're delivering cat pictures, not so much when you're writing medical / financial software. They didn't go so far as to ban DI, but it was discouraged. They don't do long-lived branches either (i.e. continuous integration) which I think is actually a good thing.

There were also very few comments, which I found frustrating. But I heard the opinion many times that your code shouldn't need comments; if the code is readable, and everything is named well, then they are redundant and can be an impediment when they go out of date. The reality was different though, because what's well-named to some may be impenetrable to others.

The opposite is bad as well. I've worked with people who insist that everything must be done "The One True Way" with whatever design pattern they deem necessary. You spend two days writing code and 2 weeks refactoring it until they are satisfied so that some future theoretical enhancement that will never come is negligibly easier.

As with all things there is a balance. Clean "perfect" code is nice, but not when it slows everything down to a crawl.

Jose Valasquez fucked around with this message at May 23, 2017 around 02:03

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