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A big part of the problem of hiring practices is ego. "What do I know that I think others should know." It's also coupled with the fact that engineers aren't the best at interviewing . Which is its own skill. I'm with you in thinking you need to sit down and see someone work before you can make any meaningful conclusions. It's frustrating to convince people to get off the trivia train. I wonder if chemists get grilled on knowing the atomic weight of every element....
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Mar 1, 2016 13:43
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Some of that stuff can catch you off guard. I tripped up on a beginner question about loops in the interview I took for the job I have now. I spent all my times prepping for the more difficult stuff because those were the questions I was expecting with my experience and they ended up asking none. When some of the beginner questions came around I had to think on it for a second because a lot of that stuff I rarely use. It's all sort of academic unless the work you'd be doing specifically uses. It's actually kind of annoying the number of simple things I don't use in day to day work that I have to keep in my head during an interview and how that list seems to grow. I don't know I'm rambling... Just thinking about interviewing some more...
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Mar 2, 2016 22:59
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HondaCivet posted:In one of my best interviews they just had code on a piece of paper and wanted me to go through and talk about what it did and what the issues with it were. I really liked that and I'm not sure why I don't see it more often. Because it's simple and makes sense. Interviews are becoming increasingly complex pranks you play on candidates. But the candidates end up getting the last laugh anyway because for all the unique and justifiable interviews companies have come up with it's still difficult to judge what exactly you're getting. I say this as someone that interviews candidates.
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Apr 9, 2016 20:17
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So here's a fun thing thing that used to happen at the company I work at. One of the guys that does phone interviews used to ask a question (true or false) that he thought wasn't possible that was very much possible. Candidates would get penalized for providing a correct answer. I have no idea how long that went on because I wasn't on the calls and I wonder if we ever lost a potentially good developer because they answered just one too many answers wrong.
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Apr 9, 2016 20:21
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Had an interview go perfectly about three weeks ago. Didn't get the job. Just venting. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall after. I always feel like the interviews I perform the best in are the jobs I don't get. First time I'm truly disappointed I didn't get that particular job. Oh well poo poo happens!
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Aug 16, 2016 15:49
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If you do it a bunch of times in a row it will look bad. If you have a short stay at one place no one is going to care that much.
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Aug 26, 2016 21:31
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Outsource some quarterly work to interview candidates.
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Oct 7, 2016 17:07
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The interview process is still an insane and it's going to be that way for a while. But I'd have to agree having some sort of take home assignment for a job you want in the first place is pretty dang reasonable and probably the best way to show you know your stuff short of working for the company in question. I'd rather do that, even a bigger project, than get grilled on a bunch of topics unrelated to the position because the team you're interviewing with is on a cracking the code interview high. And I guess I'll offer a story about how a guy on our team spent 3 months disqualifying candidates on phone interviews because they were getting a question he asked wrong. Turns out they were all getting it right. I wouldn't have known if I wasn't sitting next to him while he was doing the interview. I then showed him in code how to do it. So you never know what's going to happen or why. It's all insanity.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:40
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taqueso posted:What was the question? It's been about 4 years so I'm hazy on the details but it had to do with our guy not knowing about custom model binding and decimals/phone numbers in asp .net mvc c# world. And we had solved the problem in our solution.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:59
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Che Delilas posted:I don't mind coding projects as long as they're reasonably sized and have basically no chance of being something that the company is going to take and use in production. The "build us a full website with membership and a content management system" from the other day (in the Working In Development thread, I guess) is hilariously inappropriate. I think this is true too. My interviewing fantasy probably involves them picking something from my github and then us just chatting about it.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:01
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taqueso posted:I'd be annoyed at my coworker just for disqualifying candidates based on one tech question, especially on a phone screen. And it sounds like this Q was fairly esoteric. Yeah that's how it felt. Another couple. We interviewed a guy that said the position didn't sound interesting, but he wanted to work in the same field as his wife. Another guy told us all our questions were easy, so we start asking him about using Func to write LINQ like extension methods (not particularly advanced) and proceeded to not know how to do that at all and got all huffy. I think if you can make it in the top 10 interview candidates, out of 100, just by not being an rear end in a top hat and having a slight idea how to do the job you're applying for.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:13
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Pollyanna posted:"Anything with production implications needs to be reviewed by me and <other engineer>" I don't work with you or the people around you, but a lot of the time yes people make senior because they can plan/own/understand the big picture. Those are buzzwords I'm throwing out but I think you can get the general vibe/point I'm trying to get across. Although sort of rare, I work with people that are brilliant coders, but just don't know how to create or take care of an application. And while I don't think anyone in our senior staff is bad at coding there are definitely a few that are there because they understand all of our company's pieces better than most. A lot of people I see climb the ladder also really understand the business/client needs. I don't know if that's an option for you, but one of the things you might be able to ask for is some small project that you own. You get out there and figure out what's needed, gather requirements, see how it fits in with the rest of your company's technology blah blah blah. But even if you get that you might be SOL at your office. Sometimes people above you decide where you're at and that opinion can be hard to change.
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Oct 19, 2016 19:13
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Pollyanna posted:I definitely understand the need to support an application long-term, and to understand it from a high level. I'm guess I'm just reeling from the implication that I'm not nearly as effective as I thought I was, especially when compared to my one co-worker. Maybe that's just a "get rid of your pride" thing... It's tough to figure this stuff out and you may very well be as effective as you think you are. They may just not want to promote you. There is a guy on our team I thought was an intern not much knowledge. And to this date he continues to destroy nearly everything he touches and he has his own team. It's extremely confusing to me. He is not effective at anything and I used to have to practically rewrite everything he did. But he's very, very nice and one of the best fits to our company's culture so he keeps rising and rising. The architect on my team writes pretty decent code, some is really good, some is really bad. But he knows about every single system we have running at our company and how they all communicate so all sorts of people have to go to him for help. Not for how to code things but for explanations of what things are and how to use them and that's a major value. You can do the exact things they mentioned and then in your next review bring them up and ask for a promotion. Depending on how much experience you actually have if they turn you down again it might be time to shop around. I had a friend leave the company because he was on a team and was leading it... doing all the things required to be a senior software engineer, but they turned him down when he asked for the promotion. So he left and they tried to keep him by promoting him but was too late for him.
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Oct 19, 2016 19:31
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Pollyanna posted:Alright, I get it. Feelings of fairness aside (which aren't worth dwelling on), I see that the road to improvement is focused more on project management and responsibility. Does that mean that to advance my career/get senior, I need to transition into more lead roles? That makes me kind of nervous, cause I don't feel like leadership or management is my best strength. I just wanna code. If it's more about having a stake in the project's lifecycle, then I had been hoping to get that with this project, but for a few reasons it hasn't really worked out and I'm thinking of moving to another project, which might sound kind of immature but it's the truth. Well what do you care the most about? The title? The pay? Getting to do want you want most of the time? Also ask yourself if you're actually not happy in your position. Why are you chasing a promotion? At my last job a guy turned down a promotion to architect and a promotion to a team leader because he didn't want to do anything but code. Usually in order to get promoted you have to show people that aren't developers and that may not be technical at all that you have additional worth outside the other developers. That's gonna be done by mentoring, working with customers, being a part of meetings/calls/conferences where you figure just what the hell this app is gonna do and being able to communicate to said people. If an app works your CEO isn't gonna notice how your understanding of the advanced concepts of the language it was written in is stronger than some other dev's. You don't specifically have to go into project management/team leadership you just have to be able to work with those types and speak a common language to come up with solutions that start before a dev starts coding. That being said there ARE place where you'll become senior by being the best coder in the office, but you still gotta show that to people or to your technical lead.
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Oct 19, 2016 19:44
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Pollyanna posted:It's not so much that I want to be promoted, so much as a feeling that over the course of time on this project I've actually been demoted. Some of that sounds pretty bad. Do you think maybe for some of feeling-of-lowered-appreciation could be because as you brought in new/positive practices people needed your help in doing them right and as they've learned they have become more autonomous and don't need to seek you out? Maybe you do get more criticism now, but could it be because you're not so new to the team anymore and everyone is more comfortable opening? Or does it feel toxic? I doubt you could have gotten possibly gotten worse as an engineer. Do you ever feel maybe your opinions on some of these ideas came on as too strong? Looking at this from only your point of view some of the things in there make me strongly suggest looking around for another job.
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Oct 19, 2016 20:19
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I've been waffling on making this post for a long time... I guess because I'm hard on myself or something. Counting myself out before I try. I have 16 years of SWE experience and I have been with my current employer for 10.5 years. I like my job, quite a bit. But the last two years have been making me feel underpaid. On our team I am...
I do many other things (teaching a C# class from time to time) that I would say fall more in line with regular work responsibilities. So I just highlighted the stuff that's making me feel ok about asking for more. Asking for help (like in here) and for more money from an employer are both things I've never done. I feel like I don't deserve the help and I'll just be told no or I'll get fired. So I really don't know what to do. Sorry if this is not a space for this type of thing.
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Nov 13, 2022 11:49
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thotsky posted:To get paid close to your market value you're going to have to get an offer from someplace else, and probably take it. I kinda figured. Thanks!
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Nov 13, 2022 13:43
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Just based on time there, you're probably underpaid. But I wanted to ask what kind of title you at least have. Are you at least regarded as senior? Or are you an individual contributor on paper? Senior Software Engineer is my title. Titles go associate swe, swe, senior swe, then you can progress into architecture or become a staff/principal engineer.
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Nov 13, 2022 13:44
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bob dobbs is dead posted:you comfortable with actually telling us what you get paid? and location? After bonus it's probably around 105k/yr. We have a stock program, but it's just the ability to purchase stock at a lower price with a yearly limit. I am in the Detroit area.
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Nov 13, 2022 15:19
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Thanks for the words everyone. I have a lot to think about lol.
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Nov 13, 2022 15:54
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Hello, The company I'm working for (mortgage/finance industry) has offered buyouts for everyone/all avenues of business not just engineers. I'd get ~20 weeks of pay, PTO, stock RSUs accelerated, keep health insurance for a bit, and have my last day in August. Reasons I'd want to take it.
Reasons I wouldn't.
I'm not looking for anyone to decide for me, just if anyone has a better idea of the market or has experienced a buyout before. Argh.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:39
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leper khan posted:What guarantee of continued employment or favorable terms of leaving do you have if you don't take the buyout? None. And they aren't saying what percentage of workforce they want gone or specifics about positions. They have said this is the most generous package they will offer though. Getting the package isn't even a guarantee, you have to apply.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:18
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I can try, but the decision to apply is due Wednesday.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:24
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Thank you everyone for responding. Just typing it out and reading the responses kind of makes me feel better I think. I'm beginning to lean towards taking the offer.wilderthanmild posted:This would make me antsy to be honest. If it isn't a total bullshit trap where nobody gets the buyout, you'd think an engineer with 10 years at the company would meet whatever qualifications they want for the buyout, but you never know unless they publish that stuff. Personally I'd apply for it and start looking for a new job. I think this has more to do with them not wanting to lose absolutely-mission-critical-can't-be-replaced type people. Although it would still be crummy to deny anyone for any reason. Coco13 posted:Look at your financial picture and figure out how long your savings + buyout + any unemployment will last. I'd also suggest reaching out to local people in your network and asking if you can get a cup of coffee to talk about your job search. Practicing talking about yourself and getting feedback on how you're presenting your job history and projects will help your interviewing skills in a way posting will not. Plus, putting yourself as a job seeker front and center in their minds will help them think of you if they run across any opportunities. They are also including covering the cost of 3 months of cost for "career transition services" which is supposed to help you with things like interviews/resumes. I could probably survive comfortably for 6+ months. kayakyakr posted:20 weeks is a very generous package, C#/Angular is a marketable skillset, and since RSU's are involved, I'm going to assume it's a known company where 10 years in place is not going to be a drag. 10 years also means that you're probably underpaid from market rate by a good bit. I'm pretty sure I am. Last time I posted in here was about that and it was pretty eye opening. kayakyakr posted:Biggest risk is if you're on the older side for a goon. Age is a protected class, yes, but that doesn't make it any easier for someone 50+ to land an IC role. I'm 37 which I think isn't too bad. Pollyanna posted:Not gonna lie, I kinda like the thought of working in C#. It's a dream. The only language I like more is F#.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:08
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Moctopus, there are some important things to know still: There's no guarantee you get it. I imagine it's first come first serve + how critical you are. I want to again thank everyone for responding and giving their thoughts. I decided yesterday evening to go for it and applied. I'm probably the last person to trust their gut, but I felt some sort of internal pressure that I needed a change and I'm listening. No telling if I'll get it, and I guess I have a target on my back now if I don't. Either way I'm looking for a job. I'll find out Thursday if I was selected or not.
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Jul 25, 2023 10:00
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I just got out of a meeting with my manager. Asked why I applied to take the offer. Said he was looking forward to starting a new project with me. Said our team would be safe until 2024 and had work lined up into the new year. But they did not ask if there was anything they could do to keep me and it wasn't lost on me that guaranteeing our team would be safe into the new year is basically what the buyout is covering. I dunno when I'll get another chance to make finding a new job a full time job. I still think I made the right choice, but it tugged at me emotionally.
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Jul 25, 2023 20:08
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Ok, my application for the buyout was accepted and it's set in stone. My last day will be the 11th. Pretty difficult Friday. The SWEs on my team (me at senior, 3 associates, 1 intern)... The intern will end up back in school after the summer is over, myself and two of the associates took the buyout leaving one SWE on the team. I've been mentoring the three associates since they changed careers three years ago and this type of thing is by far the most important and fulfilling part of the job for me (especially when it's people my age making a career change) so it was a big cryfest. The guy staying is also the one I've worked most closely with and I think this is an enormous upheaval for him, but god drat did he have some nice words for me and was rooting me on in a private call we had and I tried to really convey how proud I was of him (I am) and so lots more crying. Anyway, off the heart and on the brain, I'm reaching out to my network and doing the resume/linkedin thing, but it's been so long since I've looked. Stuff like HackerRank and LeetCode didn't exist when I last interviewed. I'm not trying to get into a FAANG type job, but I do think I should be studying something (or putting together a project) and would like a bump in pay. I prefer back end stuff over front end. Spent a lot of time in AWS and a bit less in Azure. Built and maintained all of our CICD/Infrastructure. Love to teach/mentor. I'd like to continue being a remote employee so I don't care where the office is located (though I understand competition will be stiffer and pay may be worse) A unicorn job for me might have some of these things
So that's my pie-in-the-sky stuff. I have a bit of time to be picky, but I'm old enough to know how quickly time evaporates and would like to focus on what to study/what kind of project to do. I hope I'm not talking about myself too much and forgive me if this is disjointed my head is all over the place.
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Jul 29, 2023 10:10
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leper khan posted:Think long and hard about why you want to make games before jumping over here. You likely won't get to work on games you like. If you do, you may stop liking them. The pay is typically a lot lower than you could get elsewhere, often with longer hours. Hey thanks for this. Kind of confirms what I was saying. I'll probably avoid it.
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Jul 29, 2023 11:04
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Ralith posted:Think very carefully about the opportunity cost of writing off $300k+ TC. They're not as hard to get as you might think. Sincerely? They seem to be notorious for that exact thing. Maybe I need to stay off reddit 👻
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Jul 29, 2023 20:09
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At my now former job, we had a goal of getting our interns to make a change that went to production on their first day to first week. We had some luxuries to allow us to deploy like this, but it was a real hit. The new folk responded extremely positively to having something they worked on in prod. Maybe the only thing they liked more was (if college interns) having other kids their age around to socialize and hang out with.
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Aug 3, 2023 15:23
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That's what I'm gearing up for. What was the question if you don't mind me asking? There's a lot of jobs out there, depending what they asked, do you want to work at a place that looks at 15 years of experience and asks you that? Especially with no questions about that experience?
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Aug 3, 2023 20:00
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Not only can the process be different, people will value things differently and ask different questions. So interviewing for the same position on the same team can be quite different depending who is in the interview. Standardizing helps, but doesn't remove the human element. I've interviewed so many people... Every method feels like a failure in its own way. I'm convinced the best method is whichever one I like the most and gets me the job. 😑
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Aug 4, 2023 16:11
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Along the same lines, has anyone worked with ServiceTitan? I got a recruiter email, but I'm very much still in study mode.
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Sep 26, 2023 06:18
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Does anyone have a resource for getting into the swing of things regarding DS&A? I have 17 years of experience, but haven't had to touch that stuff since college and it's all long gone. I'm practicing leetcode stuff and struggling a lot worse than I thought I would.
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Sep 27, 2023 19:48
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Thanks! I've been doing the problems then checking the answer thing. I've been working my way through this list, https://gist.github.com/tykurtz/3548a31f673588c05c89f9ca42067bc4 and I'm on the cyclic sort section. When I start them I'm ok at recognizing the patterns and applying them, but it's starting to feel like I need to know two tricks (the pattern and an additional hurdle) instead of knowing the pattern and building on it. This one in particular stumped me earlier and lead to me making this post, https://leetcode.com/problems/find-all-duplicates-in-an-array/ I was able to sort the list just fine, but blanked on the idea of throwing in a negative number. Kind of liking and hating these more than I thought I would. Gonna keep on keeping on!
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Sep 27, 2023 20:14
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Just adding on to the original bit: Thanks for this, that's good insight. I haven't hit anything unfamiliar in that area yet, but I have been using some stuff I barely needed to touch (looking at min and max) so you're on the money.
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Sep 27, 2023 22:35
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Thanks for all the resources everyone! I got plenty to keep my busy for a while I think 👍
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Sep 28, 2023 08:43
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What is the polite way to respond to a recruiter that you're not currently looking at applying anywhere, but will be eventually. I posted a bit back about taking a buyout/studying and I'm not really prepared to interview, but this particular recruiter has sent three emails and I'd like to be professional. I feel a little silly asking, but everything is so gamified these days that every way of handling seems like it could be the wrong way of handling it in its own right.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:48
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Hadlock posted:"I'm not looking right now but I'm looking at making a transition here in 6 months, please reach out then"? Thank you!
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Oct 6, 2023 07:19
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I appreciate that link. It's a good read for me.
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Oct 6, 2023 08:16
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