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Question from a student pilot: I was flying the pattern yesterday. "1234Z, extend downwind, I'll call your base." "you call my base, 1234Z" flew for 15-20 seconds "34Z, cleared for options runway 30." "cleared for option 30, 34Z." Then I paused and thought for a second -- okay, he did clear me, but he didn't explicitly approve a base turn, and this is still a pretty short downwind. I don't want to violate an order. "Tower, verify base turn approved, 34Z" (with attitude) "34Z I already cleared you!" "Roger, turning base." No big deal after that but I was curious and can't find a specific page in the FAR/AIM about it. It makes sense that if you're Cleared To Land and you're not behind anyone else, you have authority to turn when you see fit. But tower did say he'd call base and then did not do so, or retract that order. Does a Cleared To Land (#1) supersede other directions automatically, or is the tower supposed to explicitly retract/deactivate/whatever any other orders if they're no longer relevant? Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 00:33
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 13:07 |
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PT6A posted:My understanding is that in the US, you can be cleared to land before the runway is clear (meaning someone could still land or take off ahead of you) so without knowing the full extent of what’s going on, I agree with vessbot that the landing clearance would not constitute being told to turn base. They could still, for example, want you to extend downwind to allow for a departure or the use of an intersecting runway, even if you’re #1 to land. Yeah, I regularly receive a landing clearance while there are several people ahead of me. I'll be on downwind, there's somebody turning base, somebody on final, and another plane in its takeoff roll, and "34Z cleared for options runway 30 number three behind the Decathlon." Obviously I can't just turn and make a short approach or whatever in that situation so it seems like following all ATC commands unless they're explicitly cancelled is the right move. I don't know how you'd make general aviation work here (bay area) under those Canadian rules. At PAO, which is usually a shitshow because it has a single 2400' runway and like half the GA traffic in the area, I've been number 6 to land, I've been told to make a 360 while on short final, I'm regularly extended into the Moffett Field airspace (another thing that makes me a little skeeved out because the controllers usually don't mention it -- they're just on the phone with NUQ behind the scenes apparently) and every other call ends "with no delay." In Canada, how close do they let you get to the airport without a clearance, then? Does everyone just get stuck on downwind until the one guy who's cleared has completed his base and final? Do you get the clearance as you're on final approach, preparing for a go-around in case you don't get it?
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Jul 19, 2019 17:00
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Our pattern has been closed essentially every day this whole summer from the time the tower opens until noon because the tower is reportedly understaffed. Between the winds and the fog, 9am to noon is the best time to fly around here and it's quite frustrating to all the flight school instructors that the pattern opens up right in time for them to send students out into like 17G25. I know everyone keeps having rumblings about an upcoming pilot shortage; is there an ATC shortage as well?
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Aug 20, 2019 23:42
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What percentage of traffic controllers are also pilots? I've seen a lot of suggestions in various publications to "remember that most air traffic controllers are not pilots, and do not expect them to understand your situation from a pilot's perspective" and stuff like that, usually quoting an example of an airliner that crashed when the pilot said "we're in the soup" and the traffic controller didn't grasp the gravity of that terminology. But that said, I feel like there's got to be more controller-pilots than the roughly 0.1% rate of pilots in the general population.
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Aug 21, 2019 07:31
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When one controller goes off station and is replaced by another, what sort of things do they tell the new controller in the briefing? How would the briefing vary between e.g. a sleepy delta and a busy bravo?
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Aug 26, 2019 04:58
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Today as a training exercise I flew from SQL to RHV, passing through the airspaces of PAO, NUQ and SJC on the way and getting handed off from one tower to the next. It was very painless; I got a transponder code on the ground at SQL and from that point on only had to call in with my altitude and the controllers already knew where I was going and handled everything. What is the process behind the scenes that allows this to happen? How does one tower talk to another? What information do they provide, and to who, and when? Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 23:48
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i don't think that's what a nest egg is but okay
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Mar 3, 2020 03:41
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vessbot posted:Holy poo poo. Midway traffic, Southwest 123 takin' the active!  runway number
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Mar 18, 2020 00:00
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MrYenko posted:Niner yes, but the others no. There’s a percentage of people who use fife, but I’ve never heard fow-er, in the academy or otherwise. I like to say tree e: what is this horseshit though  if i heard someone call in "Skyhawk setteseven pantafive bissotwo bissotwo novenine" i'd think they were having a stroke Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 03:22
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be a huge airplane dork from the age of 7
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Jun 13, 2020 03:46
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I guess you also have to memorize all the abbreviations for different airlines/callsigns too, huh? A while back I picked up flight following from Travis AFB approach control, and my flight school has its own callsign (because we are extremely cool dudes) and the controller hesitated and asked me to confirm the three-letter version of it for whatever you guys do with it behind the scenes.
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Jun 14, 2020 07:42
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only SR-71 pilots need to read an altimeter that high anyway
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Jun 18, 2020 04:50
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is this for real (1:38) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx8rglGpZd0&t=98s
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Jun 26, 2020 23:59
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One of the two questions I got wrong on my PPL knowledge test was about where ADS-B is required, because it seems like an impossibly obvious safety feature and also I live under a Mode C veil and it's never even been in question 
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Jul 1, 2020 18:15
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NGC773 posted:Can't you get virtual towers? Central ops rooms where the air traffic is coordinated for several airports. The point of a tower is to allow the controllers to see what's going on at the field. It's especially important that controllers be able to see the airplanes for VFR operations and ground control. No, I do not think this can be replaced with a bunch of cameras. (Maybe I'm just a luddite but knowing how easy it is to spot airplanes in real life vs. on a flight simulator screen...eesh) There are already enroute centers that coordinate traffic over a wide area using only radar; that's what people are suggesting might be automated eventually. Those centers always hand control over to the tower (or just to the pilot, in case of an untowered airport) when the aircraft gets close to the field. Here are the ARTCCs ("Oakland Center," "Miami Center") that a pilot will talk to when they're in the middle of a long distance flight  Here are the TRACONs ("Norcal Approach," "Seattle Departure") that a pilot will talk to as they get closer to a big airport  There's a bunch of stuff about how ATC works as a megapost near the beginning of the thread. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 20:01
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fknlo posted:And everyone is wrong on the takeoff thing. It's one in, one out. No exceptions. The tower people are incorrectly applying this. What does this mean in the given context, of multiple airplanes waiting to take off and being cleared earlier or later seemingly at the controller's whim? Anecdotally I have noticed that I wait longer for a clearance when taking off behind a Citabria than behind a Cirrus, which like...duh? I remember once getting cleared for takeoff while a Pilatus was just starting its roll, but it made some sense since I was at the runup and wouldn't get to the hold bars before he was off the ground, and in the air there was no way I'd catch him. An instructor told me once "when you're cleared on the runway, it's yours, you take all the time you need and don't have to worry about anyone else," so being cleared on while the other plane is still on the ground seems like a violation in that sense...but I can see the controller thinking "there's no way this 152 will catch up to that turboprop" and saving 30 seconds. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 02:59
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We got a new controller apparently and I like his style. Really drawls everything out like a cowboy and he makes an effort to do nice stuff like tell you the winds every time you land. I hope we keep him
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Sep 2, 2020 20:54
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SFO's tower (and I guess every other class B tower) is continuously staffed 24 hours a day, but there's basically no flights between 1am and 6am other than a couple of FedEx planes. How many people are gonna be up there during those hours? What do they do to pass the time?
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Nov 8, 2020 12:19
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so what you're saying is if i wait until 2:30AM, i might have a chance of doing a few laps in the pattern on 28R?
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 8, 2020 |
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Nov 8, 2020 18:36
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 13:07 |
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Just because of Oshkosh, or it it deeper than that?
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Mar 6, 2021 21:56
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