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Best Producer/Showrunner? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Verity Lambert |
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49 | 7.04% |
| John Wiles |
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1 | 0.14% |
| Innes Lloyd |
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1 | 0.14% |
| Peter Bryant |
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3 | 0.43% |
| Derrick Sherwin |
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3 | 0.43% |
| Barry Letts |
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12 | 1.72% |
| Phillip Hinchcliffe |
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62 | 8.91% |
| Graham Williams |
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3 | 0.43% |
| John Nathan-Turner |
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15 | 2.16% |
| Philip Segal |
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3 | 0.43% |
| Russel T Davies |
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106 | 15.23% |
| Steven Moffat |
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114 | 16.38% |
| Son Goku |
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324 | 46.55% |
| Total: | 696 votes | ||
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Please tell me you were wearing the coat.  Also, were are you from? I know you came over to visit the DWE but your in America right?
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Aug 20, 2014 00:11
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Doctor What has popped up on a bunch of doctor who related stuff lately for me. It was a little weird. Also THE COAT is really well done.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:21
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Chello De Don posted:Doctor What has popped up on a bunch of doctor who related stuff lately for me. It was a little weird. Also THE COAT is really well done. I legitimately love the coat and think DoctorWhat is a stand up dude who deserves any measure of success or joy he gets from being part of this wonderful fandom. In fact, I pretty much feel that way about anyone who post in this thread.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:28
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Hey, have they done a "further adventures of the first doctor" series with David Bradley yet? What about an eighth doctor spinoff series with Paul McGann? No? Fine. gently caress everything. The BBC are dumb and I hate them. edit: all will be forgiven if we get a 1, 8, 10, 11, 12 multidoctor story, or some decent combination thereof. DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 00:36
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Davros1 posted:I remember an article in DWM where the talked to some NA authors, and one said that you cant make the Doctor the main character because you can't know what he's thinking. Which, to me, is bullshit, because if 26 seasons taught us anything, it's that you ALWAYS know what the Doctor is thinking, because he always says what he's thinking. That's what makes the character such a joy to watch. It could be argued that the companion is often the main character. The Doctor is usually the protagonist, the one who takes action, but often we see from the viewpoint of the companion. That's certainly the route Davies took, introducing us to Rose first and, through her, learning about the Doctor. And I gather "An Unearthly Child" started with Ian and Barbara exploring and stumbling upon the Doctor, and they serve as our surrogates. Basically, when you have an out-there concept or a confusing character, it's common for the main character to be a normal person who observes the unusual person. That's why Arthur Conan Doyle told his Holmes stories from Watson's POV- it's hard to put yourself in the mind of a supergenius, but it's possible to describe such a person from the outside. Timothy Zahn did the same thing with Grand Admiral Thrawn.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:42
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PriorMarcus posted:Please tell me you were wearing the coat. I don't wear the coat out when I'm running off to the supermarket, especially in the summer heat. It's a pain in the rear end to clean, for one. I'm a New Yorker. Chello De Don posted:Doctor What has popped up on a bunch of doctor who related stuff lately for me. It was a little weird. Also THE COAT is really well done. Yeeaaah, I've been pretty widely present on the web lately, largely owing to the coat getting me a lot of attention at the World Tour event and my decision to try and capitalize on it. My Tumblr follower count has gone up by 30% in the past five days alone. Oh, and if you've seen any pictures of me from that event, (or any other sharing of the stuff I write or do that might fly under my radar), it'd be great if you could drop me a line about it. There are still pictures I remember posing for that I haven't seen! And I can't take credit for the coat, it was made on commission. If you want to applaud the shoes, or the pants, or the question marks on the collar, however, I'm very glad to bask in your adoration. :smugsix:
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Aug 20, 2014 00:52
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I told DoctorWhat this at the time, but the pants turned out beautifully. I doubted the baseball pants idea when he posted it, but they looked much better than I thought they would. I considered going in full costume myself but was coming from work and didn't want to bring the whole thing with me and opted for just the trenchcoat. I regretted it as soon as I got there. Lindalee could've interviewed me...
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Aug 20, 2014 01:20
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DirtyRobot posted:Hey, have they done a "further adventures of the first doctor" series with David Bradley yet? Don't be stupid. How would the kids know which pack-lunch box to get?
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Aug 20, 2014 01:33
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Is the Lindalee interview of Forums Superstar DoctorWhat up anywhere yet?
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Aug 20, 2014 01:37
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For anyone here who's Australian, the ABC will be airing an interview with Peter Capaldi tonight at 8PM, in QI's usual slot. For everyone who's not Australian, I'll be watching, and if anything interesting comes up will tell you all.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:06
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Potsticker posted:Is the Lindalee interview of Forums Superstar DoctorWhat up anywhere yet? No, but THIS is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGATv4vDxsM Here's a GIF I made of my bit:  
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Aug 20, 2014 02:18
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DoctorWhat posted:No, but THIS is: What were you staring at on the floor at 36s?
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Aug 20, 2014 02:21
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PoshAlligator posted:What were you staring at on the floor at 36s? Probably the "BAD WOLF" graffiti that had just shown up in chalk on the sidewalk. Not really sure, though - that day was a blur.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:23
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DoctorWhat posted:No, but THIS is: Neat! That's a fantastic sound byte.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:31
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Potsticker posted:Neat! That's a fantastic sound byte. I mostly plagiarized it from Craig Ferguson's "banned" Doctor Who opening number. But I felt it ought to get as wide an audience as possible.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:34
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DoctorWhat posted:No, but THIS is: I don't know about everyone else, but for me I start associating people on forums with their avatars. So I'd been picturing you as John Hurt, and then I see this video and you're probably younger than I, and it's just a weird disconnect.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:37
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PoshAlligator posted:It's like they've never heard of The Maltese Falcon, which is a masterpiece of not quite knowing what the protagonist's plan is. It is quite a detective-y thing as you say, maybe they found it hard to jive detective and sci-fi novel together, which is their own fault. I'm late to comment on this, but in fact, this is almost all good detective fiction from the 1950s on, and it's the hallmark of hardboiled. Chandler's Marlowe almost always has a pretty good idea of what's going on, but he spends most of his own narrated books describing his immediate sensations as he takes in each character, assesses their corruption, and more often than not, gets the poo poo beat out of him. We don't even hear all the information he knows in his thoughts or narration, we always get it through a monologue he delivers toward the end. And gently caress, there are people who have done it blending genres together. The absolutely great Who Censored Roger Rabbit is an absolutely bizarre story in which cartoons can separate themselves into twins temporarily and speak only in word balloons, but the narrator plays it as a straight Sam Spade within that universe. Even Agatha Christie has a puppetmaster narrator in one of her most famous stories, and that's to say nothing of the zillions of Holmes clones that "star" the detective but filter his master plan through a more ignorant sidekick narrator, which Doctor Who has readily available in the form of a companion. It's not hard to do!
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Aug 20, 2014 02:38
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FYI I am not a demon-possessed doll in real life. And I am reasonably certain that J-Ru is not the TARDIS, Cobi is not Paul McGann (McGann might be) and Mr. Jakiri is not Davison with a hand puppet. hth EDIT: Biclops is not Hartnell, but Prior Marcus may actually be Oscar the Grouch.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:39
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Potsticker posted:
I actually am, but only because GBS turned me into a Slam Whale from my true form and previous avatar, Niles Crane. I am often influenced by avatars in some ways as to what I think people "sound" like, but I can only picture Doctor What as what he actually looks like, I've just seen his picture enough times.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:45
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quote:DoctorWhat, there's something on your back...
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Aug 20, 2014 02:54
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Jurgan posted:I don't know about everyone else, but for me I start associating people on forums with their avatars. So I'd been picturing you as John Hurt, and then I see this video and you're probably younger than I, and it's just a weird disconnect. I quite like the John Hurt avatar. I was "awarded" it by this thread some months ago after I got into a bit of a war (eh?) with Noted poo poo Person Conquistador in the aftermath of the Aatrek stuff, which led to more than one BRCT being bought for me by Conq and his friends. Bicyclops posted:I actually am, but only because GBS turned me into a Slam Whale from my true form and previous avatar, Niles Crane. And now you all know what I sound like, too! (for better or worse) DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 02:57
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I'll probably switch to Troughton in February or March if I haven't pissed off someone enough to buy me a BRCT that says "SJW Doctor Who video game poster" or whatever.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:00
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Jurgan posted:I don't know about everyone else, but for me I start associating people on forums with their avatars. So I'd been picturing you as John Hurt, and then I see this video and you're probably younger than I, and it's just a weird disconnect. What the hell you must think of me, I haven't the foggiest.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:05
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Burkion posted:What the hell you must think of me, I haven't the foggiest. Raston Warrior Robot.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:11
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Burkion posted:What the hell you must think of me, I haven't the foggiest. Robot Strong Bad?
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Aug 20, 2014 03:12
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CobiWann posted:Raston Warrior Robot. Man, why hasn't Moffat brought this dude back? It's right up his alley.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:24
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Burkion posted:What the hell you must think of me, I haven't the foggiest. Judge Dredd, if he were in Daft Punk.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:06
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I love all of these and will never betray them. Except when I inevitably do.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:50
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I have mixed feelings about Turn Left, it's a very good episode in parts and pretty hamfisted and clunky in others. Probably my biggest complaint, and sadly foreshadowing things to come in the finale 2-parter, is the presence and treatment of Rose in her rather unnecessary and ill-handled brief return to the show. This is a Doctor-lite episode, following on from the companion-lite episode the episode before. Like in previous seasons, this allows the usual episode format to be experimented with a little bit, though this time rather than bringing in new one-off characters the show does the rather sensible thing of making the companion the main character of the episode. This means we're essentially watching the Donna show starring Catherine Tate (which is entirely different to The Catherine Tate Show starring Catherine Tate!), and she does a fine job of carrying the episode. Thanks to the time-fuckery involved, we get to see the older characterization of Donna in action against the backdrop of the strange events going on, as opposed to the smoothed-edges Donna we've had throughout most of the season. She's abrasive and loud and opinionated but all throughout the episode we see time and again just why she is the way she is - she has a very well hidden inferiority complex and a desperate fear of being unloved. Throughout the course of the roughly 2 years that the episode covers she grows as a person without the benefit of the Doctor's guiding hand, and ends up in much the same place as the regular Donna - scared and uncertain but determined to do the right thing, seeing things and making connections that other people do not. Unfortunately, amongst this perception and growth are some very annoyingly obtuse moments that I think boil down to the show not trusting the audience to grasp the obvious. Extensive use of flashback and audio voiceovers abound to hammer home the point of things that happened, things that changed, what impact Donna had etc, most egregiously during the scene where Rose explains the reason the Doctor died in this reality and not in the original. There's also one moment that should be amongst the strongest emotional punches of the narrative that completely falls apart because of the hamfisted exposition - the scene where Rocco understands he and his family are being sent to a death camp and does his best to hide this knowledge from Donna. Donna's completely inability to grasp the obvious clashes with Wilf's tearful and bitter repetition of "it's happening again", and what should be a pretty powerful moment ends up feeling not just clunky but also pretty crass. That's really a common theme throughout the episode, the idea is to show just how hosed things are without the Doctor around, as all of the world-ending scenarios he prevented over the last couple of seasons occur without him about to stop him. But when they succeed they fail to have the global impact they were initially meant to, retrospectively lessening that threat of previous episodes (the crash of the Titanic was supposed to wipe out life on Earth, not "just" the greater London area, for instance). A better aspect is in the way that some of these catastrophes are still prevented, but at the cost of former companions of the Doctor following his lead - Sarah Jane Smith becomes the Smith in Smith and Hones for instance, but dies in the process of stopping the exploding MRI, while Martha suffocates after giving the last of the oxygen to a colleague; the Torchwood team die destroying the Sontarans, while the immortal Captain Jack is taken prisoner. There is no Saxon, of course, because the Doctor never traveled to the end of time and Martha wasn't there to wake Yana up, and the last of humanity were probably huddled up waiting to die because there was no signal summoning them to "Utopia". But the chief problem with this episode is Rose. I'm a fan of the Rose character, I thought her character arc across season 1 and 2 was a very interesting exploration of a Doctor/Companion dynamic we hadn't seen before and that her "fate" was very appropriate as a way of ending her run on the show. But I am not a fan of "Rose", the near perfect mythical figure she was subsequently made out to be by the Doctor (and a disgruntled Martha), and that is the Rose that returns in this episode. She looms large over everything, garnering a level of attention and focus that isn't particularly warranted and comes at Donna's expense. Nothing about her return makes sense, because RTD seems to have forgotten that as important and special as she was to the Doctor, she is still a young human woman in her early 20s and NOT a Time Lord or otherwise an expert on causality or paradox. Rose appears as a spectral figure, haunting Donna's life, privy to information there is no way she would actually have, knowing things she could never know (things Donna and the Doctor did together, exactly what is happening to cause this alternate reality etc). She commandeers UNIT based on absolutely nothing - they don't even know her name and yet give her access to everything and defer to her as a superior. While it is true that she has been working for Torchwood in her reality and would probably know a lot about weird alien things (on top of her experiences traveling with the Doctor), she has a competence and know-how that is bordering on the level of the Doctor. How does she know that the Titanic is going to crash on Earth? How did she set up the winning raffle ticket? How does she know the exact moment when Donna's new reality diverged from the original? How does she know that Donna is going to die? Hell, how can she see the thing on Donna's back? She can't time-travel herself (so how did she appear in Midnight?) as she explicitly tells Donna that the time travel Donna will be doing is experimental and they have no idea if it will work or not. Most everything they're doing technology wise is gleaned from a surface level understanding of the technology in the TARDIS (they know it does something with space and time and that's about it), but Rose appears to be privy to knowledge bordering on the supernatural. Remember she isn't the Bad Wolf anymore, any knowledge that was in her head from that is long gone. In Journey's End a slight aside is made about the Dimension Cannon her earth built being capable of measuring timelines or something like that, but even that just raises further questions, how the hell were they capable of that even in their advanced state? I think it boils down to RTD wanting a mentor/spirit-guide like figure to help Donna out, and he put Rose into that role even though it doesn't make any sense. I can't say how it could have been handled better, but I can say that it should have been, because this isn't the Rose from season 1 and 2, and it isn't even a conceivable extrapolation of what she might have grown into over the intervening couple of years. She's basically Magic. There's also a pretty glaring disconnect by the desire to showcase the falling apart of the planet first in Britain and then globally, but also retaining the likes of UNIT as "friends" to the Doctor that the audience can relate to. While UNIT is a UN operation they've always been primarily Britain-based in the show, and they're pretty much complicit in standing by and doing nothing while martial law came into effect, death camps were set up for immigrants and undesirables, and people like Donna were threatened with being shot on the streets (but a UNIT soldier!). The mix of having a dystopian alternate reality where UNIT still goofily saluted people associated with the Doctor just felt weird to me. Donna discovers what the thing on her back is (it's a cheap model and a poor example of practical effects, and was most effective when we couldn't get a clear look at it) and makes the trip back in time. She dies to create a traffic jam that prevents the other version of herself from turning right, and the proper course of reality is set back on track. The bug dies, the incredible stereotype that is the fortuneteller freaks out over not just what Donna is but what she will become (clunky foreshadowing of the finale), and the Doctor steps cheerfully into the tent with no idea that it's been a couple of years since Donna saw him last. He examines the bug and namedrops the Trickster (a villain in The Sarah Jane Adventures), and then figures out from context who the woman who was guiding Donna was. Before the alternate Donna died, Rose told her to tell him two words. The obvious thought going through most people's heads was that the words were "Rose Tyler" but of course they turn out to have been "Bad Wolf". The Doctor freaks out and runs outside to discover that all the text in the little alien marketplace they've been enjoying now say Bad Wolf. It's the TARDIS translation circuits trying to warn the Doctor that poo poo is going down, and he runs back to the TARDIS to discover the Cloister Bell ringing, and declares breathlessly to Donna that it is the end of the universe. That's a hell of a cliffhanger even if the BAD WOLF stuff was pretty nonsensical, and of course it immediately spoilers who the bad guys for the finale are going to be.... though there was one other surprise waiting that the trailer managed to hide.... which then got openly spoiled with magazine covers during the week before the penultimate episode aired  For all the negative things I've said about it, Turn Left is a pretty good story. It's just that it is uneven in tone and suffers that unfortunate tendency to underestimate the audience (or maybe not, sadly) by holding their hand and hitting them over the head with sledgehammer subtlety the point they're trying to make. It's a neat look at an alternate take on the events of season 3 and 4 without the Doctor around, and Catherine Tate does a good job of being the lead actor for a change. Billie Piper's return is mishandled in my opinion, and she takes far too dominant a role and is characterized poorly - I know there were plenty of people who were desperate for her to return to the show, but I wasn't one of them - not because I dislike the character (I don't) but because her story was done and there was nothing more that needed to be said.... and what DID get added only diluted her in my mind. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 12:13
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You know what? Rose in Turn Left makes more sense if you imagine she's actually the Moment interface from DotD.
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Aug 20, 2014 12:52
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DoctorWhat posted:No, but THIS is: Yes, a sort of "triumph of the will", fascist
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Aug 20, 2014 13:07
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Bicyclops posted:I'll probably switch to Troughton in February or March if I haven't pissed off someone enough to buy me a BRCT that says "SJW Doctor Who video game poster" or whatever. I'm afraid the days of lots of BRCT for Doctor Who threads are over. I've had this one for what, 18 months now? Some of the others lasted weeks.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:25
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The_Doctor posted:You know what? Rose in Turn Left makes more sense if you imagine she's actually the Moment interface from DotD. I can see that argument being made re: the Bad Wolf in The Parting of the Ways but in season 4 not so much. It was a laudable idea to show her as having grown in competence and control in her time in the alternate reality Torchwood, but RTD didn't seem to consider the very real limitations of an actual human being, even one that has been through as much weird poo poo as Rose has. It's like he wrote her as the idealized version of Rose referenced throughout season 3 and forgot what the actual character had been like.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:29
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For all the problems Turn Left had, it did give us the [LEEDS] stamp, which continues to be hilarious to me for reasons that I cannot adequately explain. The Australian interview with Peter Capaldi that aired tonight had understandably little insight into the series to come, but there are some things to talk about. As a kid, he was so into Doctor Who that the production offices had officially labelled him a pest for sending them so many letters. But when he went to college and got into the punk lifestyle, he burned all his Doctor Who stuff to try to reinvent himself. This included autographs of all the previous Doctors at that time; if he didn't do that, he'd have a complete collection. He considers the Doctor much more natural role for him than Malcolm Tucker (a role he absolutely nailed in the audition solely because he'd just come there from a much shittier audition). This is partly because he's really nothing like Malcolm Tucker, partly because the dialog on The Thick of It wasn't realistic at all, and partly because he's known exactly how to play the Doctor since he was a kid. He describes his Doctor as not caring what other people think, and not very user-friendly. But he is a man who finds joy in everything, from a supernova to plastic bags blowing through a parking lot, and would gladly just spend his whole life marveling at all of it if these pesky fascists and aliens would just stop already. And he describes the relationship with Clara as one of love, but not of a love that's got an adequate English description. She's one of the only people that doesn't take the Doctor's poo poo, who'll gladly speak up against him and actually be listened to for it. In all honesty, his description sounded like how we describe Donna, so hopefully he's right. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 13:40
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At the same time that Turn Left was horrifying and sad it kind of showed how sort of silver-age-comics absurd the situations in RTD's era often were. Like it's not just a starship crash, it's a replica of the titanic from space that wrecks london. And america cannot help because the entire population has exploded into fat blob babies.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:53
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I'm afraid the days of lots of BRCT for Doctor Who threads are over. I've had this one for what, 18 months now? Some of the others lasted weeks. To be honest, I got mine for posting in GBS and I just stopped doing that. We'll have to wait until Capaldi leaves and and That Argument pops up again before anyone actually gets angry enough to BRCT anyone in this thread.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:55
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Cleretic posted:But when he went to college and got into the punk lifestyle, he burned all his Doctor Who stuff to try to reinvent himself. This included autographs of all the previous Doctors at that time; if he didn't do that, he'd have a complete collection. It was hardly a complete collection, but I have essentially the same story with Target novelizations. 
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Aug 20, 2014 13:59
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Cleretic posted:would gladly just spend his whole life marveling at all of it if these pesky fascists and aliens would just stop already. Peter Capaldi is the best Speaking of which:  After The War posted:It was hardly a complete collection, but I have essentially the same story with Target novelizations. I threw mine out as well   Rita Repulsa posted:At the same time that Turn Left was horrifying and sad it kind of showed how sort of silver-age-comics absurd the situations in RTD's era often were. This basically reaches its apex in the two episodes that follow, which are just utterly ludicrous and mad. In parts that works wonderfully and in other parts it's terrible but there's no doubting that RTD just went all out for what he knew would be his last regular season finale. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 14:01
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Potsticker posted:FYI I am not a demon-possessed doll in real life. And I am reasonably certain that J-Ru is not the TARDIS, Cobi is not Paul McGann (McGann might be) and Mr. Jakiri is not Davison with a hand puppet. hth Oh, I can only dream. If that were true, I'd never post here because I'd be far too busy having women collapse at my feet every time I look them in the eyes and say "Hello." In reality, my name came from the GREATEST PC space combat game ever created, StarLancer
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Aug 20, 2014 15:56
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 09:15 |
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Jerusalem posted:I can see that argument being made re: the Bad Wolf in The Parting of the Ways but in season 4 not so much. It was a laudable idea to show her as having grown in competence and control in her time in the alternate reality Torchwood, but RTD didn't seem to consider the very real limitations of an actual human being, even one that has been through as much weird poo poo as Rose has. It's like he wrote her as the idealized version of Rose referenced throughout season 3 and forgot what the actual character had been like. I might hazard that we have become so accustomed to Moffat being up himself we have forgotten that RTD was equally capable of the same. Haha! 
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Aug 20, 2014 16:13
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