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Best Producer/Showrunner?
This poll is closed.
Verity Lambert 49 7.04%
John Wiles 1 0.14%
Innes Lloyd 1 0.14%
Peter Bryant 3 0.43%
Derrick Sherwin 3 0.43%
Barry Letts 12 1.72%
Phillip Hinchcliffe 62 8.91%
Graham Williams 3 0.43%
John Nathan-Turner 15 2.16%
Philip Segal 3 0.43%
Russel T Davies 106 15.23%
Steven Moffat 114 16.38%
Son Goku 324 46.55%
Total: 696 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

  • Locked thread
Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


Rochallor posted:

I realize I'm probably late to the party on this, but holy crap the Blu-Ray of Spearhead from Space is beautiful. The Autons look maybe a little silly, but everything being in beautiful hi-def more than makes up for it. It makes it hard, really, to go back to the rest of the series knowing how great everything is supposed to look.


That looks amazing!!!

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egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Bicyclops posted:

That looks amazing!!!

Yep. I may be about to buy Spearhead from Space for a third time...

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


CobiWann posted:

Do you guys think I have a problem?



(missing from this picture - The Juggernauts and Something Inside)

You certainly do, I see Terror Firma in that picture

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


egon_beeblebrox posted:

Yep. I may be about to buy Spearhead from Space for a third time...

Be aware, that disc has basically no extras, so you're paying solely for the serial in HD. I wish they'd put the commentary on it, at least. On the other hand, the easiest way to get the bonus-laden version now is paired with the other Auton story, so that's something?

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Gaz-L posted:

Be aware, that disc has basically no extras, so you're paying solely for the serial in HD. I wish they'd put the commentary on it, at least. On the other hand, the easiest way to get the bonus-laden version now is paired with the other Auton story, so that's something?

I'm fine with no extras as long as I get HD Pertwee.

Chairman Mao
Apr 24, 2004

The Chinese Communist Party is the core of leadership of the whole Chinese people. Without this core, the cause of socialism cannot be victorious.

Community fans.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.



Without having seen the whole show, the thirty second clip that introduced the concept seemed like a funny throwaway, but boy have they been stretching it!

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.




I said this in the Community thread, but it bears repeating: Why is Sylvester McCoy in this?

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

Power Gamer for Hire


If it makes them happy, what's the harm? Besides, with luck a few of them will use that as a gateway drug into the real stuff and we'll pick up a few new voices around here.

Can't see how it hurts anyone.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

Sly is in it so I think I have to at least skim through the finished project...

egon_beeblebrox posted:

I said this in the Community thread, but it bears repeating: Why is Sylvester McCoy in this?

He was in The Airzone Solution. He'll do anything.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


jng2058 posted:

If it makes them happy, what's the harm? Besides, with luck a few of them will use that as a gateway drug into the real stuff and we'll pick up a few new voices around here.

Can't see how it hurts anyone.

I mean, it doesn't, it's just a bit strange to carry a one-note joke far beyond the parameters one would expect for it to last.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


egon_beeblebrox posted:

Why is Sylvester McCoy in this?

Sylvester McCoy likes it when people give him money.

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Jerusalem posted:

Sylvester McCoy likes it when people give him money.

This is true.

Chairman Mao
Apr 24, 2004

The Chinese Communist Party is the core of leadership of the whole Chinese people. Without this core, the cause of socialism cannot be victorious.

Hahahaha, you have no loving idea do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUS9c8Ovs6c#t=2667s

He'll do anything.

Chairman Mao fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 04:11

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Chairman Mao posted:

Hahahaha, you have no loving idea do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUS9c8Ovs6c#t=2667s

He'll do anything.

Oh My God.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

Chairman Mao posted:

Hahahaha, you have no loving idea do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUS9c8Ovs6c#t=2667s

He'll do anything.

Nice to see Spudgun from Bottom got work too.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


Gaz-L posted:

Hey, who got all the nuclear launch codes because they were the only nation that could be trusted, hmm?

Naturally, the rest were all foreigners :brig:.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


Chairman Mao posted:

Hahahaha, you have no loving idea do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUS9c8Ovs6c#t=2667s

He'll do anything.

That cut with Levine's face superimposed over the citadel cracks me up every time, god

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

One day, we'll know all the secrets of the skies, and we'll stop our wanderings.


Bicyclops posted:

it's just a bit strange to carry a one-note joke far beyond the parameters one would expect for it to last.

fandom.txt

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Yeah, it is. Isn't it?

Bowties are cool.

Fungah! posted:

That cut with Levine's face superimposed over the citadel cracks me up every time, god

Holy crap, THAT'S Ian Levine? I never knew what he looked like, and what little I know about him comes from this thread, but that's just perfect.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


Bicyclops posted:

Without having seen the whole show, the thirty second clip that introduced the concept seemed like a funny throwaway, but boy have they been stretching it!

It was mostly used as throwaway gags or a way of talking about something else in season 3, but season 4's convention episode (with a criminally wasted Matt Lucas) was just awful. Season 5 has been nowhere near it so far, thankfully.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


School Reunion wasn't written by RTD, but this is HIS story nonetheless. From the very beginning RTD wanted Sarah Jane Smith to return to the show, to explore what happens to a companion after they stop traveling with the Doctor. I imagine there was a very real (and perhaps justified) fear at the BBC about the idea of embracing the old continuity of the show too closely, nobody wanted the revival to be too closely associated with the classic series, the colored unfortunately by the derided latter years of the show and the idea of low production values, "wobbly" sets and crap monsters. Even though it was never outright stated, there were many who felt like the revival was meant to be considered a reboot of the show as a whole, that it was a remake of the original Doctor Who and not a continuation of that show. With the revival a smashing success and RTD's big gamble of using his clout to return Doctor Who to the air having paid off, I like to think this episode gave him a chance to just say,"gently caress it, let's wallow in the Classic run and haul the new audience along for the ride! "

The Return of Sarah Jane is handled amazingly well. The Doctor doesn't run into her on the street or decide to stop by and pick her up or anything. She has agency, she is proactive, she is out there doing things. Notably, our first look at her comes before she meets the Doctor, so we don't get to share in the initial shock of his seeing her after so many centuries - instead she appears beforehand involved in her own investigation/adventure, and even when she meets the Doctor she doesn't know it is him at first. So she continues on, breaking into the school on her own without needing any prompting from anybody else, at which point her investigation/adventure merges in with the Doctor's - she isn't reacting or being brought along for the ride, she's instigating and is there as an equal partner. To be fair, it would be easy to lose the new viewers here as we don't learn how the Doctor and Sarah Jane knew each other before this story and aren't told until Rose - often the audience stand-in - asks and gets the explanation. But the writing and, most importantly the acting, gets across admirably well the sense that,"These two know each other, these two have a history." The Doctor's stunned, stupidly happy reaction to seeing her again and his later wander through the corridors in a happy daze is just perfect, matching exactly my own reaction as a classic viewer who knows only too well who Sarah Jane is. My earliest cogent memories of Doctor Who were watching the 3rd Doctor and Jo Grant having adventures with the Brigadier, but even though Jo was "first" for me Sarah Jane was always my favorite. The companion/actor with the longest consecutive time spent together with the Doctor, Sarah Jane for quite some time was THE Companion for the Doctor, the one I judged all others against, and her time with the Doctor mirrors Rose's so well - weird-goings on, suspicion about how the Doctor is involved, befriending him and seeing sights you never thought possible, seeing him regenerate, growing ever closer to him till suddenly one day the two are parted irrevocably and she is left to pick up the pieces by herself. But of course the question is whether or not an actress who was on the show 30 years earlier can really fit in with the modern environment. Elisabeth Sladen proves more than up to the task, in fact I'd rank the moment when she discovers the TARDIS as one of the greatest moments in the show's 50 year history. The disbelief bordering on horror, the way she backs off and then finds herself face to face with the man she assumes MUST be the Doctor, it all sells the massive influx of conflicting emotions that the character must have been feeling (and indeed, the actor as well, considering this is her return to the show that was such a large part of her life). Her conversation with the Doctor, the disbelief and incredulity followed by anger mixed with happiness and then joyful acceptance are wonderful, and it is fantastic to hear the return of little touches like her trademark little,"Hmmm" noise that she used to make. Liz Sladen originally didn't want to return just to reprise the role of "Sarah Jane Smith: Companion" but once she read the script and realized the strong focus not only on her character but also the exploration of what it meant for her character to be abandoned the way she was she happily agreed. Throughout the rest of the episode, whether it is bickering or bonding with Rose, or questioning the Doctor's actions or offering advice to Mickey or forcing the Doctor to just for once say goodbye (he wouldn't even say goodbye to his own granddaughter, telling her that he would come back, yes, he would come back), she is far more than just a cameo or a nice nod to the past. Her character actively engages and drives not just the story but the relationships of the other characters ahead. I like Katy Manning, I think Sophie Aldred is Ace, and it is always a blast to see Frazer Hines or Janet Felding again, but I don't think any other actor/character other than Liz Sladen/Sarah Jane would or could have had as much of an impact.

Sarah Jane's return also serves as a great splash of cold water in Rose's face and even appears to puncture for a time her growing romantic fascination with her idealized concept of the Doctor. Suddenly she has to deal with the idea that not only is she not the first companion the Doctor has had, but that she won't be the last either. Sarah Jane is a vision of her own future, this is somebody who was as close to the Doctor as Rose is, and yet the Doctor left her behind and never mentioned her once to Rose. Is this to be her fate too? The Doctor assures her that it won't be but this time she isn't willing to just listen to nice platitudes - Sarah Jane probably felt the same way and look what happened to her. Here the Doctor delivers what I think is one of the more powerful lines of the revival, and one that has special relevance to Rose - "You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I can't spend the rest of my life with you." Perhaps the comparisons between the Doctor/Companion dynamic and a romantic relationship is a little too on the nose for some, but whatever Rose's delusions may be I don't put any stock in the idea that this episode recasts the 3rd/4th Doctor relationship with Sarah Jane as one of unrequited love. No man ever quite measured up to the Doctor for Sarah Jane, but that doesn't mean she wanted the Doctor as a romantic partner any more than a girl who measures a boyfriend against her father wants to bang her dad. In any case, Rose's fantasy has been spoiled, and in probably one of the healthier moments for her character she actually gets a chance to revel in the utter absurdity of the Doctor after she and Sarah Jane bond over his particular quirks and idiosyncrasies. This realization of his flaws will continue in the next episode as well, but I think she takes a little too much to heart Sarah Jane's recommendation that she cling on to her life with the Doctor, as once she accepts his flaws it seems to make her even more stubbornly committed to her fantasy that they are star-crossed lovers meant to be. Still, it is fun as hell to watch her and Sarah Jane attempt to one-up each other in terms of the adventures they've had, which considering the companion's role as an audience stand-in, can also be seen as a competition between the revival and the classic series. It is therefore a bit of a fist-pump moment for me that the classic ends up winning out by playing the Loch Ness Monster trump card.

At one point during the story, the Doctor snaps and reveals the reason he always leaves companions behind - they decay, they die, they grow old while he just regenerates and moves on. That's the curse of a long life, which plays into the (frankly undramatic) concept that maybe he may have been tempted by Mr Finch. Finch is played by Anthony Head, probably best known as Giles in Buffy The Vampire Slayer (RTD took a great deal of inspiration for the revival's format from Joss Whedon) and he is great as an unapologetically unsubtle villain. His moves about like he has a stick up his rear end, his body locked in a straight line, his head twisting about on his neck like he is a vulture. Eugene Washington as Mr Wagner is what I guess you would call his henchman/second though he gets few lines, but his appearance alone makes him utterly chilling, he somehow looks like the (sadly poorly done in CGI) Krillitane. The story that takes place around the real meat of the episode - Sarah Jane's return and the impact that has - is pretty silly really, more the stuff of an outright children's show than Doctor Who (which I always stress is a family show) - aliens disguised as schoolteachers are trying to unlock the secrets of the universe using the imagination of children pumped up on chips (fries for Americans). The little subplot of the fat kid who gains acceptance when he takes credit for blowing up the school is particularly silly, especially considering that throughout the episode he appears to be an accepted and liked fellow student of all the other kids and only disliked by the aliens since he isn't allowed to eat their specially prepared meals. Written by Toby Whithouse, he nails the emotional aspects and the important main character interactions but everything else feels like it is trying too hard to stand on its own. The Krillitane aren't particularly impressive as CGI creatures, which in fact has the unintended effect of making all the jokes made at K9's expense seem particularly silly. The Doctor insists that K9 is cutting edge while Mickey and Rose laugh about how retro and disco it looks, and yet thanks to being a practical effect, K9 stands up far, far better than the plastic looking Krillitane swooping about while Anthony Head does his best impersonation of a cat yawning. Head comes across better in the quiet moments, particularly his poolside meeting with the Doctor, but if the idea was to have him as a devil-figure tempting the Doctor it really doesn't work. Even with the character having been on his moral high horse already in the series, I doubt anybody for even a second buys that the Doctor was in danger of being tempted to side with the Krillitane. Of course since he is supposedly snapped out of it by Sarah Jane, then it is a nice example yet again of a human companion grounding the Doctor. It also goes towards showing how Rose isn't providing quite the same grounding influence, it is the old companion who gets through to the Doctor the idea of things having to move on and being content to live with the regret of what couldn't be.

Sarah Jane posted:

The universe has to move forward. Pain and loss, they define us as much as happiness or love. Whether it's a world, or a relationship, everything has its time. And everything ends.

That's a lesson that Rose doesn't learn, one forced on her at the end of this season which is where the story SHOULD have ended, but I'll piss and moan about that at a later date.

Of course, what has gone unmentioned to this point is Mickey. He's the one who calls them back to earth, and though he puts on a brave face and cracks jokes, the fact is that he is lost. Unable to move on past Rose, too scared to take chances, he simply sits and reacts to events, never being proactive. The character who started as an idiot only good for being laughed at or made to look foolish managed to regain at least some dignity through season 1. Now after a brief period of gleefully mocking Rose when she discovers that the Doctor is just like "any other bloke" he ends up chatting with Rose where he comes to the horrified realization that he is "the tin dog". Like K9 he provides mostly comic relief and then pops up when needed to help them get some information or push a button, and that realization is what finally goads him to be proactive. Having already turned down the Doctor's offer to travel with them (which Rose doesn't know about) and then Rose's own offer for him to come along, he finally screws up the courage to join them on their adventures. He doesn't necessarily know if what the Doctor has to offer is for him, but he knows he isn't achieving or doing anything as things currently are, and he has to at least try. Consider Rose's reaction here and remember that she once offered to have him along, and that she still enjoys teasing him about his feelings for her - now that he is actually willing and ready to try new things like she has been so happily telling him about, she is upset. Why? Because it is a further intrusion on her continuing obsession and fantasy of what could be with the Doctor. Jack was different, he was from the future and played into the sense of fun and adventure and "newness", but Mickey is a reminder of where and when she came from, of who she was, and more importantly suggests that she is just like him - just another human to travel with the Doctor, so does that mean this is all she is too? That no matter how much he cares about her, he might care about Mickey as much, and they're not fated to be together, that the universe doesn't just exist to provide amusement for their travels amongst the stars?

The episode ends with Sarah Jane turning down that same chance to travel with them. The Doctor says goodbye at last, even though he tries to avoid it she forces it from him, but he isn't angry at her for it. "My Sarah Jane!" he declares with a huge smile and hugs her, and Sarah Jane finally has some closure on that part of her life. But after he goes (she does a great job of selling how much it hurts hearing the TARDIS dematerialize) she realizes that the Doctor just HAD to leave things open. He has rebuilt K9 and allowed her to hold on to that remnant of the past. With a parting joke about how the Doctor likes to replace things with a brand new model (Rose) the two of them head off happily together. The episode feels to me like a promise that while the revival is what Doctor Who is now, the classic series lives on. It isn't just a beloved (and sometimes embarrassing) memory, but as vital and integral to what makes the show work as any of the new writers, actors, production values or support of the BBC. Plus, you have to love the easily reinterpreted line:

Sarah Jane posted:

I preferred it as it was, but er, yeah. It'll do.

School Reunion is the merging of the two versions of the show, a story that cements at last that yes this IS the same show, that returns a beloved former companion and shows their relevance to what is going on in the modern take. It is an episode that assuages the fears of old viewers and gives new ones an idea of the rich history to be found in the show. Quite frankly, in spite of the rather unremarkable "actual" story of the episode, it is just a wonderful, wonderful episode of Doctor Who and one of my personal favorites.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 09:07

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


I'd say it's probably the strongest overall episode of season two, and definitely in the top ten for the revival at least, for the reasons you've covered.

I liked the school setting and evil school dinners plot a lot more than you seemed to, Jerusalem, but then again I was a big fan of the BBC's adaptation of The Demon Headmaster.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Fans always know better than the creators.


It might've been because I was in school at the time, but I still think that the school setting really worked for the story. It had to be a modern setting, and something relatively innocent. You want both a nice positive place to serve as the backdrop for the reunion with Sarah Jane, and a location for an infiltration mystery, and a school is pretty much perfect for that. A school's also a fairly large and varied area, so it actually serves as a fairly visually interesting location since you can have so many scenes set in different yet clearly related settings.

It's also a great way to get Mickey involved, since while the stakes are important, they're low enough that he's not really left behind. He's arguably as important to the whole 'reunion' part of the story as Rose, because he's essentially the counterpart to K9, so a story local enough to get him involved was necessary too.

Also, little thing, but it lets Rose get a bit of an edge over Sarah Jane. Not much, but with Sarah Jane being a really strong part of the narrative and essentially displacing Rose in the 'companion' slot for it, Rose would have been completely overshadowed were they not in a modern school; Sarah Jane might not think the vacuum-packed rats are anything noteworthy, but Rose is young enough to know that's not right.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Fungah! posted:

That cut with Levine's face superimposed over the citadel cracks me up every time, god



~PROTECTOR OF THE LAWS OF TIME~

I also like the part where a super-90s Xtreme Dalek sets the Queen on fire:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Good points, I guess I just found the school story distracting because it was "getting in the way" of the Sarah Jane's interactions with everybody, which was far more interesting and compelling to me. While the setting works for all the reasons mentioned (initial plans were to set it on an army base, which would have fit Sarah Jane's history fine but left Mickey and Rose kind of out to sea) I do think the peril the kids are in (and creating) is largely a misfire, as their portrayal is quite uneven. On the one hand they have the kid who is smarter than he should be, but he drops out of the story entirely after his first appearance (they dropped a scene where the Doctor's earlier questioning basically causes him to burn out by stressing his new intelligence beyond its limits) and then they can't seem to decide if the other kids are super-genius weirdos ("yay playtime ended earlier so we can go back to class!") or regular kids (giggling over the super-smart kid, indifferent to answering questions in class, celebrating the school blowing up) or victims in a trance. The pudgy kid with glasses is seemingly meant to be an outcast so his acceptance at the end is a cathartic moment, except he seems to fit right in and have plenty of friends throughout the whole episode.

Plus the Krillitane work better in concept than execution, and the CGI for them has dated so badly that it makes it hard to take them seriously. I think even the Reapers in Father's Day stand up better than the Krillitane do, and I'm glad that all CGI monsters appear to have gone somewhat by the wayside in favor of practical effects.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

Forktoss posted:



~PROTECTOR OF THE LAWS OF TIME~

Welp, there’s my motivation to go to the gym tonight.

What I find just a bit funny is that Big Finish had an open script submission period during the early 2000’s, and you have to know Levine submitted a script or two or five. When looking through the liners of the CD’s at the writer’s notes, they mention how most of the first drafts of their scripts were very dense and steeped in both show continuity AND Time Lord mythology, but Gary Russell/Nicholas Briggs pared most of that stuff out during the editing session.

That said, I’d be interested to see an Ian Levine script’s first draft from a “train wreck” perspective…

On a happier note, I started to listen to the Fourth Doctor Adventures yesterday. The first season stars Tom Baker and Louise Jameson as Leela, and the serials are about an hour long and some change, with some extra behind-the-scenes commentary after the conclusion of the story. The first serial, Destination Nerva, is a prequel and sequel to The Ark in Space and was very paint-by-numbers, probably just to get Tom and Louise’s feet wet again. But the second one, The Renaissance Man, is simply AMAZING. It’s a great story with a interesting plot, a writer who’s done his homework with regards to script details, and Tom and Louise showing great chemistry. Tom really IS the Doctor, it’s like he never left, and Leela is written more as a “curious savage” than a “stupid cavewoman.” It’s very much a Seven/Ace type of teacher/mentor relationship.
Highly recommended for anyone needing a dose of Tom Baker.

X X X X X

And thanks, Jerusalem, for a write-up of one of my favorite episodes of the new series – top five, easily. It was a case of a returning companion handled correctly. The scene where Sarah Jane stumbles upon the TARDIS and Ten just quietly says “hello, Sarah Jane,” part of me was thinking “The Doctor’s happy to see her” and the other half thought “he has no idea what to do or say in this situation.” And Sarah Jane was probably thinking the same thing – here’s the Doctor, which means things are MUCH worse than they appear, but it’s going to turn out ok in the end.

Having listened to a good chunk of audios and watching a lot of the televised serials, I appreciate that Doctor Who doesn’t fall back on its own continuity in order to tell a story. Sure, there are reoccurring villains and a few secondary characters who reappear, but there has never been a case where I’ve felt completely and utterly lost, wondering “who’s that guy” and “what the hell is up with these aliens?”

The kiddo’s first exposure to Sarah Jane was School Reunion and she dove right into the Sarah Jane Adventures without hesitation. She didn’t know who Sarah Jane was, but School Reunion told her enough to know that Sarah Jane is awesome without having to know anything else about the history between her and the Doctor.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Jerusalem posted:

Plus the Krillitane work better in concept than execution, and the CGI for them has dated so badly that it makes it hard to take them seriously. I think even the Reapers in Father's Day stand up better than the Krillitane do, and I'm glad that all CGI monsters appear to have gone somewhat by the wayside in favor of practical effects.
A lot of the problem with the CGI is they kept trying to stick the crap models up in the camera, which would look just as unconvincing with practical effects. Now if only they would have the same realization about animating agile monsters in full focus...


IIRC School Reunion had production problems which caused some of the continuity issues with the monster plot and explains why they keep switching locations for no particular reason. Wiki stuff says asbestos in one of the schools, but I remember there being more to it.
I somehow doubt this episode would've seen the light of day if Doctor Who was considered a Family Show in the US. Grade schoolers get eaten by the evil teachers who are drugging them smart through the school lunch program, Mickey rams a car through the front doors, and the Doctor (via K-9) blows up the school to kill the (evil) school staff, cue great cheers from the students.

I enjoy all the high character points of the episode, but I find it really hard to look past the dire Catty Companions bit (and I hate that it became (and continues) a recurring joke).
It's also kinda problematic that the "He hates goodbyes" explanation for ditching Sarah Jane doesn't make sense unless you have no context outside this episode, which is a bit odd considering that's the point of referencing her character. He didn't want to watch Sarah Jane decay and die from having to call a taxi home at the incredibly advanced age of ~30? Way to be shallow, Doctor.

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

One day, we'll know all the secrets of the skies, and we'll stop our wanderings.


CobiWann posted:

That said, I’d be interested to see an Ian Levine script’s first draft from a “train wreck” perspective…

Attack of the Cybermen as aired probably isn't too far off.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Fans always know better than the creators.


CobiWann posted:

And thanks, Jerusalem, for a write-up of one of my favorite episodes of the new series – top five, easily. It was a case of a returning companion handled correctly. The scene where Sarah Jane stumbles upon the TARDIS and Ten just quietly says “hello, Sarah Jane,” part of me was thinking “The Doctor’s happy to see her” and the other half thought “he has no idea what to do or say in this situation.” And Sarah Jane was probably thinking the same thing – here’s the Doctor, which means things are MUCH worse than they appear, but it’s going to turn out ok in the end.

Having listened to a good chunk of audios and watching a lot of the televised serials, I appreciate that Doctor Who doesn’t fall back on its own continuity in order to tell a story. Sure, there are reoccurring villains and a few secondary characters who reappear, but there has never been a case where I’ve felt completely and utterly lost, wondering “who’s that guy” and “what the hell is up with these aliens?”

The kiddo’s first exposure to Sarah Jane was School Reunion and she dove right into the Sarah Jane Adventures without hesitation. She didn’t know who Sarah Jane was, but School Reunion told her enough to know that Sarah Jane is awesome without having to know anything else about the history between her and the Doctor.

Yeah, I should also say I didn't know who Sarah Jane was at the time. But I did put together that she was from the classic series, and I respected it for that. The non-verbal stuff largely flew over my head, because my Asperger's was a whole lot worse back then.

It was K9 that worked better for me. Probably in part because I knew the classic series had a robot dog, so he was more of a known 'classic series entity' to me than Sarah Jane. He was also a bit more in-tune with what I was into at the time, and was something I was better equipped to understand, so he worked a lot better to me.

EDIT: I was apparently 14 at the time, judging by the Doctor Who wiki. So yeah, early-mid teen with Asperger's, I connected with K9 more than anybody else in that episode.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 13:14

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Fil5000 posted:

It was mostly used as throwaway gags or a way of talking about something else in season 3, but season 4's convention episode (with a criminally wasted Matt Lucas) was just awful. Season 5 has been nowhere near it so far, thankfully.

The convention episode was perfectly fine if you're not the type of person to go to conventions.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


computer parts posted:

The convention episode was perfectly fine if you're not the type of person to go to conventions.

I'm not the type of person to go to conventions, I just thought the Jeff/Annie stuff was abysmal and had been dealt with better already, that inspector spacetime had more than run it's course and the Abed/Matt Lucas stuff was just poo poo.

But I'll shut up about community in the who thread now.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Fil5000 posted:

But I'll shut up about community in the who thread now.

Read that as "continuity"

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


I still think my favorite scene of the early seasons is when Sarah Jane discovers the TARDIS. It is just perfect. I am also pretty sure that its the first time they went yep gently caress it its the same show. They had injokes in season one that it was the same show, like the Cyberman head in Dalek, but that could have just been taken like when you see the old cylons in Battlestar - something cool for the fans. On that note I have seen so much classic Doctor Who and TOS Star Trek is my favorite version, but I could not get the pilot of the original BSG. It was just bad, also that loving monkey/dog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAszjUxMZkE

bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 14:19

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


Anthony Stuart Head as every villain in the Doctor Who Universe in audio, cartoon and televised format.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

I liked the bit in the Community con episode where Britta called out the nerds on their institutionalized misogyny...

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


DoctorWhat posted:

I liked the bit in the Community con episode where Britta called out the nerds on their institutionalized misogyny...

Talking about Community Brittas a thread.

Ms Boods
Mar 19, 2009


I see the BBC are giving a birthday shout-out to everyone's favorite dictator, Robert Mugabe, with a '9 Things You Didn't Know' fun 'n' wacky feature

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26257237

Surely one of them should be that he sits on a throne made of missing 1960s-era Doctor Who videos?

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


bobkatt013 posted:

Talking about Community Brittas a thread.

Some sort of Brittas Empire if you will

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CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Some sort of Brittas Empire if you will

The Britta of the Daleks.

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