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Best Producer/Showrunner? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Verity Lambert |
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49 | 7.04% |
| John Wiles |
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1 | 0.14% |
| Innes Lloyd |
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1 | 0.14% |
| Peter Bryant |
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3 | 0.43% |
| Derrick Sherwin |
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3 | 0.43% |
| Barry Letts |
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12 | 1.72% |
| Phillip Hinchcliffe |
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62 | 8.91% |
| Graham Williams |
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3 | 0.43% |
| John Nathan-Turner |
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15 | 2.16% |
| Philip Segal |
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3 | 0.43% |
| Russel T Davies |
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106 | 15.23% |
| Steven Moffat |
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114 | 16.38% |
| Son Goku |
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324 | 46.55% |
| Total: | 696 votes | ||
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Are there more missing episodes out there or not? http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2014/07/missing-eps-qa-20072014211115.html It's about as much as a answer as we've gotten from the man who returned Enemy and Web.
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Jul 20, 2014 23:29
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On this matter I am firmly aligned with Ian Levine: Philip Morris is a tremendous rear end in a top hat and should return any and all tapes he has instantly.
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Jul 20, 2014 23:47
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I want to believe there are more missing episodes out there, but you can only be so lucky so many times.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:19
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Jerusalem posted:I just assumed that after the President was killed they held another election which Obama won (maybe he didn't get the nomination in this world). Not the way it works, whoever Winters' running mate was would get the job then. I subscribed to the rewritten history thing myself.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:28
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I'm just glad they eventually got rid of the whole "oh, Earth knows about aliens now" thing, or just severely downplayed it in the most hilarious fashion. "Oh cracks in time, that poo poo never happened. Oh well, off we go Pond."
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Jul 21, 2014 01:47
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 When I tossed Inferno into the DVD player, my initial thought was “wow, SEVEN episodes? Must be a lot of padding.” My recent forays into classic-era Doctor Who has been the six-episode The Talons of Weng-Chiang and the two-episode Attack of the Cybermen[. The thought of SEVEN 22-ish-minute episodes filled me with a bit of dread. Would I see a bunch of back-and-forth dialogue? The Doctor being captured, breaking free, and being recaptured again? Long, sweeping shots of the English countryside? Well, I was pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong. Yes, there are some points that drag, and one of the central parts of the story don't make any sense. Still, Inferno is easily one of the Third Doctor's best stories thanks to great performances and some strong action sequences, as well as an overwhelming sense of dread and hopelessness as one of the core rules of the show is broken...the Doctor loses. It's the mid 1970's, and the world is currently experiencing an oil crisis. Professor Stahlman has promised that drilling into the Earth's crust and tapping into a pocket of energy efficient natural gas (which Stahlman has humbly named after himself) will solve the United Kingdom's problems. The Doctor, having removed his center console from the TARDIS in an attempt to circumvent his Time Lord imposed exile on Earth, is sharing power from the project's nuclear reactor to use in his experiments. When one member of the project turns up missing and another is found dead, his corpse maintaining a high body temperature even in death, the Doctor, Liz Shaw, and the Brigadier realize that something is amiss with the project. Stahlman, however, refuses to slow down the drill's approach to the Earth's crust. Frustrated, the Doctor attempts to use the TARDIS' console to finally leave Earth behind...only for things to go horribly wrong. Instead of ending up somewhere else in space or time, the Doctor ends up somewhere else entirely; a Britain ruled by a fascist government. UNIT Science Advisor Liz Shaw is now Section Leader Elizabeth Shaw, security specialist, who refuses to buy the Doctor's story that he's from a parallel universe. And as for the Brigadier...  On this Earth, Stahlman's project is about to reach its conclusion. But the penetration of the Earth's crust leads to the release of a mysterious green goo that turns anyone it touches into a evolutionary throwback. As the Doctor realizes that the green goo has been released back on Earth, he also realizes that, unless he acts soon, this parallel Earth is doomed...and his “home” Earth is only moments away from taking the same steps that will also lead to its destruction! Inferno is really a seven-episode serial that consists of two seperate but intertwining stories. Writer Don Houghton's initial story concerned a massive borehole that released a primordial liquid that turned those who touched it into caveman. Terrance Dicks suggested that the story needed more of a plot to avoid being boring, and thus the big twist was introduced. I feel jealous towards those who saw this serial when it originally aired, as the Doctor's arrival in a parallel universe was a surprise to those viewers! The portion of the story taking place in the “fascist Britain” universe consists of several very tense moments. The Doctor plays cat and mouse with several soldiers and Primords (the official name of the “cavemen” creatures, never mentioned IN the story of course) before being captured by Elizabeth Shaw and brought before the Brigadier Leader. While this is happening and the Doctor is being interrogated, Stahlman's project is nearly completion, and the script bounces back and forth between the the Doctor's situation and the drilling project, where Stahlman, infected by the green goo and slowly becoming inhuman, insists the project continue and Greg Sutton, a drilling expert who refuses to be intimidated by the regime, insist it be brought to a halt, with Stahlman's assistant caught in the middle. Back on Earth, as opposed to the Brigadier Leader's determination to drive the project forward regardless of the death and consequences, the Brigadier is determined to halt the project, no matter what delays Stalhman places in his way. The story of the drilling project fills the first two episode with enough action with the Primords and shouting via Stahlman and Sutton that it doesn't start to drag. In the episodes where the Doctor finds himself in the parallel universe, the story will cut back to the “normal” Earth to remind the viewer what's going on by pushing the story forward enough that, when the Doctor makes his return, the pieces are in place for the final episode. In a way, the final episode is kind of anti-climatic, especially compared to the fast paced tension of the previous episodes. The padding does come in the alternate universe, as there are a few extraneous “capture/escape/caught” sequences. But they're very well done, as we get to see Jon Pertwee's Doctor in “James Bond” mode, both in terms of physical prowess (and charm, in the polite way he knocks out the guard escorting him) and as gadgeteer as he does his best to at first fix the project's computer (which has been sabotaged by Stahlman because the data it produced would have caused the project to be should down) and then as he quickly tries to fix the console so he can escape the dying world and save his adopted home world. Seeing the Doctor realize that, no matter what he does, he can't save the parallel Earth, will come as a shock to most viewers. quote:"Listen to that! It's the sound of the planet screaming out its rage!" This works to the story's benefit. The Doctor isn't concerned with “fixing” the fascist world he finds himself in, and the viewer is never told what the course of historical events was that brought about the new republic. The focus is on the characters and the situation. Each major and minor character on Earth has their counterpart in the parallel world, and they're not played with a sense mustache twirling, black hat wearing evil. They're people who could have, under the guise of a totalitarian regime, ended up where they ended up. Stahlman, with the complete backing of the regime, will see his project finished no matter what the cost. Sutton, loud and in-your-face, telling the regime that it doesn't matter what they do to him if they're all going to die anyway. Benton, the loyal soldier who acts out of a sense of jackbooted superiority as opposed to faith in the system. Elizabeth Shaw, who chose science over security. And the Brigadier, still firm, still in charge, but now with total authority to decide his actions as opposed to years of military experience. The characters are all still familiar to the viewer, but just different enough to be...wrong and off putting. On the other hand, the origin of the green goo that turns normal people into the savage Primords is summed as “weird liquid that comes from a hole in the ground that turns people into cavemen.” And that's it. It's the same explanation the classic 80's B-movie The Stuff used with regards to “ice cream that turned people into zombies,” but THAT movie gave us a bit more background. The goo is the ultimate MacGuffin and could have used an explanation or an origin of some sort.  Mentioning The Stuff solely to make this segue, there are a lot of horror motifs in this story. As the world slowly burns thanks to the penetration of the Earth's crust, a red filter is applied to the camera during the outdoors scenes. The Primords look a bit silly, but the way they act and move could have come from one of the Hammer movies, or even a Quatermass story. And the cliffhanger at the end of episode six is one of the best classic Who has ever done. The Earth screams and doom rushes towards the Doctor as he tries to escape while those who he can't help, even those who were trying to kill him just minutes earlier, are helpless in the face of their own death. I would recommend anyone interested in the Third Doctor, after watching Spearhead from Space, to roll right into this story after passing through the other episode from this season: The Silurians and The Ambassadors of Death. Doctor Who rarely does “parallel universe” stories (I think the only other televised one is Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel) and this one does the concept right, giving us the Third Doctor with his charm, knowledge, and strength even as he faces off against familiar faces in an unfamiliar land. CobiWann fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 01:54
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DoctorWhat posted:I asked for this on Tumblr and someone delivered: This is amazing. Gordon Shumway posted:I want to believe there are more missing episodes out there, but you can only be so lucky so many times. Wonder if it's possible that he found some tapes, but they were damaged beyond repair.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:20
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Take this from me Watch the entire first season of the Third Doctor. All of it. You might retroactively hate the new Silurians, but it's worth it. There is not a single bad serial in his entire first season.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:21
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Burkion posted:Take this from me I was going to post this as well, Pertwee's first season is just superb and everyone who hasn't should check it out immediately.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:28
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I still need to sit down and go through all of The Silurians, but I really like Inferno and Spearhead From Space. Of course, my favorite of that season is probably The Ambassadors. ......OF DEATH
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Jul 21, 2014 02:30
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FreezingInferno posted:I still need to sit down and go through all of The Silurians, but I really like Inferno and Spearhead From Space. Of course, my favorite of that season is probably The Ambassadors. TWAAANG
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Jul 21, 2014 02:31
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DoctorWhat posted:On this matter I am firmly aligned with Ian Levine: Philip Morris is a tremendous rear end in a top hat and should return any and all tapes he has instantly. Since I know nothing about raiding African TV stations for lost sci-fi shows, I'm willing to give him that he might have some delicate negotiations or something going on that would mean he had some episodes either in his possession or knowledge of their existence but would be at present unable to secure their return, but that still wouldn't justify the way constantly drops dumb, empty "hints" at missing episodes and makes stupid statements that range from needlessly enigmatic to purposedly misleading. Also the way he spells makes me crazy. Even his official TIEA statements are the most sloppily written things. Learn to spell Phil tia
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Jul 21, 2014 03:03
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DoctorWhat posted:I asked for this on Tumblr and someone delivered: My god this is hilarious and awesome.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:08
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wins.
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I absolutely agree that people should watch the entire first Pertwee season, but also watch the first episode of his next season (Terror of the Autons) as it works as a neat bookend to that first season as well as slightly "rebooting" the show after the previous year already "rebooted" the Hartnell/Troughton eras. Inferno is great, though I agree that the mystery of the green goo is never given even lip service of an explanation. What always stands out to be is seeing the Brigade Leader (the Brigadier) revealed as a coward, driven insane from fear. It was a real head-trip to me as a kid to see the good ol' reliable Brigadier completely lose his cool.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:49
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Maxwell Lord posted:Some people have pointed out that talking about "Vote Saxon" doesn't make sense for the UK because you don't directly vote for the PM, but it makes sense given how personality cults have become a part of politics there- people didn't vote FOR Tony Blair but they knew that he would be Prime Minister if Labour won a majority, hence he was a factor in their success, etc. In the Doctor Who universe, the UK changed its electoral system out of admiration for US President Benjamin Franklin.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:08
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Cerv posted:reminder that eric robert exists I quite enjoyed Eric Roberts for what he was. The Master needed more "flamboyant dickhead" in his game, anyway.  Also John Simm was fine as Master. Like all brave Doctor Who actors, he did the best he could with what he was given.
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Jul 21, 2014 06:35
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The Sound of Drums is the penultimate episode of season 3 of Doctor Who, and unfortunately it is a mixed affair. What's a little unfair is that it is so often lumped in with the finale episode and doesn't really get a chance to stand (or fall) on its own merits, people tend to either praise or condemn it based on how it compares to The Last of the Time Lords, or even to Utopia which preceded it. The Master hogs all the attention and a great deal of either the praise or the criticism, somewhat appropriately given the grandstanding nature of his character, and overshadows both the nonsensical aspects as well as some of the better performances from the other castmembers - David Tennant of course, but also supporting characters like Lucy Saxon and even poor old neglected Martha Jones. The previous episode ended with the Doctor standing agape at the end of the universe, having been utterly defeated and stranded by his old, long-thought-dead nemesis. The Futurekind were breaking down the door, Martha and Jack desperately trying to keep them out, while the Doctor for once was at an utter loss for words or action. The preview for this episode played up that sense of,"Welp, they're dead!" by deliberately focusing entirely on the Master, but only a few seconds into the start of this episode that cliffhanger is resolved in a remarkably humdrum manner, casually explained away after the fact by the Doctor who notes that he was able to repair Jack's broken Vortex Manipulator and get them out of there. I guess RTD just wanted to get into the meat of THIS story rather than dwell on the previous, but I think it could have been executed a little better. The Master immediately makes his presence known, as Martha finally says what we all figured out a long time earlier in the season - The Master is Harold Saxon, the exciting hip new guy who everybody knows and loves in early 21st Century Britain. The Doctor, of course, has never heard of him, and is once again left gaping as he discovers that the Master has been hiding in plain sight under his nose all this time. Oh, and he's married! Oh, and he's also the Prime Minister of Britain! The Master appears on television and with great delight goads the Doctor who he knows must be watching. From this point on, the Master often takes center stage and is the focus of all the attention of the episode, with the Doctor and the like mostly in the background or reacting to the events that he brings into motion. That's good and bad, because it risks overexposure even for as fascinating and "new" a character as the Master. There are only so many times we needed to see him flip between goofy dork and sinister monster, and it practically gave me whiplash watching it hammered into my head again and again and again that the Master is basically a lunatic. John Simm does the absolute best with the material he has given, and his portrayal really isn't all that far out of line with that of previous actors in the role. Hell, Delgado did exactly the same "the Master is amused by a kid's show" joke way back in The Sea Devils, and don't even get me started on Anthony "I'm going to leave a cardboard cutout of myself here to gloat while I go get a cuppa" Ainley. But the mixture is wrong, and while what RTD gets right he gets VERY right, he takes things a step too far in the campy direction and makes it difficult to take the Master seriously as the bad guy. Those glimpses of the horrible monster he is are chilling and enhanced by his charming foolishness, but it gets diluted by repeating that demonstration again and again, or taking a good joke too far. When he gloatingly reveals his true nature to the journalist (whose presence feels completely contrived to keep the plot moving) it's good, and the way he and Lucy run out of the room like giggling kids works well... but then he opens the door again so we can hear the screaming before cutting it off by closing the door... then again... then again. He keeps going back to the well, ruining whatever impact the moment might have had. Metal Loaf posted:I think it's worth keeping in mind that the more conventionally "sinister" aspect of the character only really comes through when it's just him and the Doctor one-on-one, but the "campy jerk" part comes out when he has an audience to put on a show for. I know a lot of people don't like it anyway, but I thought it generally worked out okay. This is a really good reading on the Master that I pretty much agree with. Every time it comes down to a one on one situation between the Master and the Doctor with nobody around watching, he restrains himself (or lets his REAL self out). It works extremely well and makes a great deal of sense, because to the Master all these little ants running around are not worthy of his attention or being taken seriously... but the Doctor? Oh the Doctor definitely is. The phone-call conversation they have is the highlight of the episode, and a great insight into just how mad the Master is. Note how quickly he shifts from refusing to believe that Gallifrey could be gone to thrilling over the thought of what it must have felt like to destroy it. The Doctor is desperately trying to reach him, to make a connection with the last of his kind and get through to him the enormity of their new situation. But the Master isn't listening, he's lost in his own little world, wanting nothing more than to rub the Doctor's nose in his new power and prove his own superiority. It's that mixture of madness and genius and utter immorality that helps make the Master so fascinating no matter what incarnation he is in, the reverse image of the Doctor. Somewhat controversially, this episode gives an origin of sorts to the Master, though RTD is careful to be as generalized as possible. Along the way he pokes fun at the long standing theory (and even planned part of the proposed Doctor Who reboot in the mid-90s) that the Doctor and Master were brothers, and adds in the briefest touch of the Doctor's own past. Personally I quite enjoyed the notion that rather than being "inspired" by the untempered schism like you would have expected, the Doctor was one of those who ran away, while the Master went mad. Later in the year of specials they'd further add to the "Sound of Drums" notion first alluded to in Utopia, and that has also been seen as a controversial retcon. Personally, while I like the idea of the Time Lord initiation, I don't hold stock that it is solely responsible for the way the characters turned out. There are any number of unknown events in their lives that helped form them into the people they became, and at the end of the day it comes down to a conscious choice and personal responsibility - the Master didn't HAVE to be evil, no matter what hosed up things screwed him over, any more than the Doctor HAD to be good. The episode also takes a rather unwelcome dive into the world of politics, albeit a quite clumsy and shallow one. The painfully obvious nods to Tony Blair and George W. Bush and the Britain/USA relationship of the time date the show rather badly, and of course the way Saxon rose to power really doesn't make too much sense given the way that British Parlimentary Elections work. Of course, that latter part doesn't REALLY hold water given the revelation that the Master set up the Archangel Network to give everybody a vague sense of trust and faith in Mr. Saxon... but the former is still rather embarrassing, with the childish interactions between the President and the Prime Minister being pretty eye-roll worthy.... though nothing is quite as bad as the President saying,"I will be Master if that is your wish.... yes, I accept Mastery of the Toclafane race!" Supporting character wise, there is a lot of chaff - particular Martha's family (her brother gets told to run and hide and does a SPECTACULAR job of it, as he is never seen again!) and the investigative journalist and even Captain Jack - Jack in particular feels wasted, especially when the Master throws in the line about sending the Torchwood team to Tibet... why wouldn't he just have had them killed? Two of the supporting characters shine though, and funnily enough one of them is Martha of all people. For the first time this season she actually takes a proactive and aggressive stance and stands on her own two feet, ignoring or snapping at the Doctor when he tries to tell her not to do things. There are a few cringeworthy moments like when the Doctor obliviously explains that wearing a perception filter is like fancying somebody who has no idea you exist, but it is neat to see her pushing her own agenda and taking a stand for herself. The episode ending with her escaping the Master's trap and vowing to return to destroy him is a pretty strong moment, and also marks one of the first clear examples of what Davros will accuse the Doctor of in season 4. Martha has never really had her own character or sense of purpose like other companions, and now we see the start of what stand-in for that lack of clarity - the militarization of a medical student and peacemaker who from this point will forever be associated with the military or weapons or mercenary work. The best (and most underrated) though is Alexandra Moen as Lucy Saxon. She plays Lucy Saxon as both victim and perpetrator, when you first see her she appears every inch the perfect smiling empty-headed wife. Her conversation with the journalist sees her seemingly an equal and willing partner in the Master's schemes... and yet as the episode goes on and things really start to unravel, she seems to unravel as well. She seems almost drugged, unclear what exactly is going on but utterly terrified and doing her best to hide it. She's the Master's hosed up version of the Doctor/Companion dynamic, and the things she has seen and the knowledge she has been exposed to have driven her completely around the bend. Her staggered dancing as the Master plays wildly inappropriate (and utterly perfect) music to accompany the invasion of the Toclafane is excellent, it's like she's hearing music and knows that means she is meant to dance, all while trying to maintain her composure in the face of madness and unaware of how inappropriate this is. Sadly her return during the Year of Specials will dilute the impact of her character's short storyarc somewhat, but in this episode and the one to follow she presents a rather horrific look at the dazed remains of what was once a normal human being. The Sound of Drums ends much like Utopia before it, with the Master triumphant and the Doctor utterly defeated. It's a mixed bag of an episode, what works is VERY good and what doesn't is kinda cringeworthy. Martha gets something to do and we get a tantalizing glimpse at the backstory of the Master, as well as a brilliant scene between him and the Doctor discussing the destruction of their home. The politics are embarrassing, the use of music is brilliant in parts and grating in others (and depends very strongly on context), and the scene where the Doctor is aged up probably sounded great on paper but doesn't come across on the screen too well. Still, for all the problems it might have, I'll always love this episode for one thing in particular. The Master uses the word "decimate" correctly. 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 07:23
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No matter the criticisms with Simms (and I will defend his Master almost to the point of liking the weird super saiyan version..almost) the fact is that without him or those other (silly) moments in his episodes, we'd never have this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrRhVueuXj0 And a world without that scene is a world I don't want to live in Jerusalem posted:[b] Her staggered dancing as the Master plays wildly inappropriate (and utterly perfect) music to accompany the invasion of the Toclafane is excellent, it's like she's hearing music and knows that means she is meant to dance, all while trying to maintain her composure in the face of madness and unaware of how inappropriate this is. I'm always drawn to her changing expression in that scene above - just the brief flicker of going from "fake happy" to "what the gently caress is going on with my life" for just the *briefest* second (the moment her face is turned away) is some awesome acting/timing. And that brief moment is half off-camera, isn't even meant to be the main focus on screen, yet still it's the thing that sticks out the most. McGann fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 14:44
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Discussion question - which would you rather have rediscovered? Fury from the Deep...or the original version of The Quatermass Experiment?
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Jul 21, 2014 15:35
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Historical value tips it ever-so-slightly to the missing bits of Quatermass...but if you took that away, my gut probably wants Fury a bit more. (On the other hand, there's way more material of Patrick Troughton as the Doctor than there is of Reginald Tate as Quatermass...)
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Jul 21, 2014 15:57
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DoctorWhat posted:On this matter I am firmly aligned with Ian Levine: Philip Morris is a tremendous rear end in a top hat and should return any and all tapes he has instantly. Morris may be an rear end in a top hat, but Levine has proven himself to the much larger rear end in a top hat in this situation. On a forum I lurk, and in which Levine posts, I've seen him berate other posters, make tasteless racist remarks, tell one poster to take cyanide and kill themselves, and then demand that posters on that board start showing him respect or he'll threaten to leave.
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Jul 21, 2014 16:16
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I honestly have to say that the Voodoo Child scene in The Sound of Drums is probably one of the most iconic single scenes in all of Doctor Who in my mind, and definitely one of the ones that retains its impact the best. 'Shocking twist' scenes like the end of Army of Ghosts, the important part of Utopia, or (in a less dramatic way) the Curator in Day of the Doctor I feel lose a lot of their impact on repeat viewings, when you know what's coming. That scene on the other hand is just a magnificent climax, with some really nice imagery and a surprisingly fitting soundtrack, and the whole thing just works so well. That song was still moderately popular down here when the episode aired, and to this day I can't not hear it without thinking of that scene. Which is good, because I don't actually like the song on its own terms.
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Jul 21, 2014 17:08
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I have to admit the first time the music came blasting through I thought it was awful.... up to the point I realized that it was literally being played by the Master himself. The one bit of context turned it from awful to fantastic for me, and it is for similar reasons that I love the Scissor Sisters bit pointed out by McGann (and yes Lucy's face falling the moment she's not being looked at is brilliant). There's just something so weirdly appropriate about the Master - triumphant and ruling over the entire planet as he's tried for so long to do - deciding to celebrate by turning his floating death station into a Breakfast Morning Radio Show.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:11
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McGann posted:No matter the criticisms with Simms (and I will defend his Master almost to the point of liking the weird super saiyan version..almost) the fact is that without him or those other (silly) moments in his episodes, we'd never have this:  Completely agree. Down to the complicated feelings over End of Time Master. (It's completely ridiculous and kills any chance of taking the story seriously, but part of me loves the silliness of the Master Race) I even like the whole 'sound of drums' notion, and absolutely ADORE the idea that it's the rhythm of the theme music, the bass line that's so entwined with the series as a whole, symbolic of how the Doctor relates to the Master. And I like the sound as a metaphor or even a symptom of his driving madness, his ego, his need to dominate, conquer, even kill. It's when it turns into some bullshit metaplot that it falls apart for me.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:06
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Five years from now we won't be able to have these discussions about any of the stuff Moffat has created.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:10
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PriorMarcus posted:Five years from now we won't be able to have these discussions about any of the stuff Moffat has created. We already have and we will again, don't be silly.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:12
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Gaz-L posted:
Even though "The End of Time" remains my least favourite revival story (jointly with "Let's Kill Hitler"), I do like the sound of drums addition - what I didn't like so much was the idea that Rassilon put them in his head as part of a master plan. Perhaps I'm being too uncharitable, but it sort of feels like it's saying, "It's not his fault for being evil! The Doctor can fix him and they'll live happily ever after!" I'm not sure if it weakens the Master as a character or not; I guess it just felt a little too easy?
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Jul 22, 2014 00:18
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Well that's when it comes down to a nature vs nurture debate, I guess. Personally I think that the Master is still responsible for the choices he made, keep in mind that Yana had the same sound of drums endlessly beating in his head and yet what did he do with his life? He cared for people and worked selflessly to try and save mankind and was fully willing to sacrifice his own life on just the possibility that Utopia was real.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:27
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It was just pointed out to me that Baines from Human Nature/Family of Blood is also Viserys Targaryen. That delighted me for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.
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Jul 22, 2014 01:16
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TL posted:It was just pointed out to me that Baines from Human Nature/Family of Blood is also Viserys Targaryen. That delighted me for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. The little kid who steals the Doctor's watch and Baines keeps sniffing at is Jojen (the weird kid hanging out with Bran)!
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Jul 22, 2014 01:19
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Jerusalem posted:The little kid who steals the Doctor's watch and Baines keeps sniffing at is Jojen (the weird kid hanging out with Bran)! Do you think, if I wish hard enough, Charles Dance will show up as the Master?
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Jul 22, 2014 01:21
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One thing from Utopia that's hinted at but never stated outright is that Utopia itself is just an invention of the Master's. The way he removes the disc from the computer and says its name dismissively in manner of "I can't believe they fell for it."
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Jul 22, 2014 01:22
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The_Doctor posted:One thing from Utopia that's hinted at but never stated outright is that Utopia itself is just an invention of the Master's. The way he removes the disc from the computer and says its name dismissively in manner of "I can't believe they fell for it." This is practically outright stated though isn't it? I mean everyone who made it to Utopia became the Tocclafane.
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Jul 22, 2014 01:25
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The_Doctor posted:One thing from Utopia that's hinted at but never stated outright is that Utopia itself is just an invention of the Master's. The way he removes the disc from the computer and says its name dismissively in manner of "I can't believe they fell for it." Yep, though I don't think it is ever explicitly stated, the stuff about the Master only being able to travel between roughly 2005-2007 and the year 100 Trillion+ and his journey to Utopia to sweettalk the Toclafane indicate that he set it all up. Which makes the fact that his Yana self swallowed it hook, line and sinker even sadder. PriorMarcus posted:This is practically outright stated though isn't it? I mean everyone who made it to Utopia became the Tocclafane. He tells the Doctor about taking Lucy there, and about how the humans had regressed to a childlike mentality to hide from the knowledge of their impending doom, but he never outright says,"And the place only existed because I set it up!" - RTD gets justifiably accused of a lack of subtlety in parts, but it also means those times when he IS subtle and relies on the audience to fill in the blanks, a lot of people miss what he was setting up. PriorMarcus posted:This is practically outright stated though isn't it? I mean everyone who made it to Utopia became the Tocclafane. Charles Dance and Alan Rickman in The Two Masters, a Doctor-lite episode in which somehow the younger Master outsmarts and kills his older version. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 01:26
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Jerusalem posted:The little kid who steals the Doctor's watch and Baines keeps sniffing at is Jojen (the weird kid hanging out with Bran)! He was also in Love, Actually and is Ferb on Phineas and Ferb.
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Jul 22, 2014 01:37
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Jerusalem posted:Charles Dance and Alan Rickman in The Two Masters, a Doctor-lite episode in which somehow the younger Master outsmarts and kills his older version. Then two episodes later, the older Master turns up again and when asked how he survived, he just laughs evilly.
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Jul 22, 2014 02:55
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So I mentioned this in...one of the threads. Not sure which. Me and fellow Goon Seer ran a friend of ours through *ALL* of Modern Doctor Who leading into the 50th and managed to pull it off. We usually watch random shows together, I still want to get them into Blake's 7, and we've shown him a VERY small handful of Classic Who. By that I mean Genesis of the Daleks and Tomb of the Cybermen. Genesis was a while back, Tomb was last week. He enjoyed both stories quite a lot, so this week we decided we'd watch one unrelated show, and a serial of Classic Who every day. (Well an episode of a serial. You know how that goes) He wanted to run through ALL of Doctor Who in order, but we decided on something a bit more interesting. We would take a look at a different serial for each Doctor, in numerical order, from 1 to 7. So today we watched An Unearthly Child! He got a laugh at the First Doctor and wondered how old he was then. This quickly devolved into us agreeing it didn't matter. We're skipping the Second since we just watched Tomb, and we're jumping into the Third next time with Terror of the Autons, as he and Seer wanted to see the Master's first appearance. The Fourth Doctor we're planning to watch Ark In Space. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for Five, Six and Seven?
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Jul 22, 2014 03:15
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Jerusalem posted:The little kid who steals the Doctor's watch and Baines keeps sniffing at is Jojen (the weird kid hanging out with Bran)! And the Captain in Cold War is Davos Seaworth (the Onion Knight--Stannis' Hand who's missing his fingers). I feel like "Doctor Who" is the "Law & Order" of Britain--everyone's in it.
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Jul 22, 2014 03:25
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Burkion posted:So I mentioned this in...one of the threads. Caves of Androzani, Vengeance on Varos, and The Curse of Fenric.
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Jul 22, 2014 03:28
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 17:29 |
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Jerusalem posted:Charles Dance and Alan Rickman in The Two Masters, a Doctor-lite episode in which somehow the younger Master outsmarts and kills his older version. I never knew I wanted Charles Dance as the Master until now  . The Doctor would be pissed though. He wanted to be ginger, after all.Gordon Shumway posted:Then two episodes later, the older Master turns up again and when asked how he survived, he just laughs evilly. "Don't worry, you'll figure it out eventually".
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Jul 22, 2014 03:38
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