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Fetus Tree
Feb 2, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 5 years!


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Yea that whole death scene was hilarious. Hey let me dump all this plot info for you while I bleed out of my neck for like 5 minutes. It's like the writers didn't know who killed his parents until the finale and just shoved it in there.

I have p much no doubt thats what happened

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pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007



Elizabeth saw Jared meeting with the undisguised Kate several episodes ago and commented on how strange that was.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES


Yeah, something subtle from Jared would've been great, like if they left it at, "Make sure The Center knows, m-make su- [inaudible]." Have Elizabeth and Philip try and puzzle it out in the car, set you up for that revelatory clue about Claire. It wouldn't have come limply rolling out that way.

Steve112sms
Mar 20, 2002

Paregoric babies of the world unite.

CBJSprague24 posted:

I get a laugh out of Liz's hypocrisy. "Don't you DARE go and believe in a power higher than yourself. It's STUPID to believe that there's something more powerful than you to which you must devote your life for their Cause".


Well, to be fair, the Cause concerns an ideology that is actually being implemented by an actual country she's a part of. Whereas from her point of view, the church concerns a fictional story about a fictional messiah. It's not as though being anti-religion requires you to be nihilistic. It's just a matter of different philosophies/ideologies. It's not really any more hypocritical than it would be for one of Paige's church buddies to be anti-communism.

TheAngryDrunk
Jan 31, 2003

"I don't know why I know that; I took four years of Spanish."

Fetus Tree posted:

The whole son being the killer was kind of dumb to me and seemed like something they retroactively shoehorned in after deciding they wanted to do the secondary immigrant agent thing.

E: Which, while that makes sense, also seems like it could lead to some lame rear end plots next season. Paige is roll-eyeingly boring imo. The only good she has served this season has been making me laugh at phil/liz's disgust for religion

I'm not sure at what point they decided Jared did it, but I didn't get the impression it was a last minute thing. After they ruled out Larrick, they didn't really introduce any other suspects.

Fetus Tree
Feb 2, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 5 years!


Which is why I think they tacked that on.

They didn't even need to solve that this season, or at all.

That whole thing seemed like shoehorning in the second generation spy thing which will probably be big next season.

:shrug: its not a big deal, just thought it was weak compared to the rest of their stuff

Also i didnt see anybody else post about this. When stan is in the FBI office he is talking to a superior while standing in front of a huge picture of reagan, and then later and her kgb guy or w/e do the same in front of a picture of Lenin and it was like the same shot. Was cool.

Ill see if i can screen cap it later, if nobody beats me

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010


mobby_6kl posted:



Yeah, I dunno how realistic some of her rants were (probably not very) but with a more annoying actress this definitely wouldn't work at all.

Imagine Dana from Homeland delivering Paige's lines


Fetus Tree posted:

Re: becka on californiacation

Shes so bad they got rid of her and cast some nerdy little jew kid to be hanks long lost son lmfao

They just stopped showing Dana's storyline & scenes midway through the latest season of Homeland because they were so lovely and annoying.

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.


Steve112sms posted:

Well, to be fair, the Cause concerns an ideology that is actually being implemented by an actual country she's a part of. Whereas from her point of view, the church concerns a fictional story about a fictional messiah. It's not as though being anti-religion requires you to be nihilistic. It's just a matter of different philosophies/ideologies. It's not really any more hypocritical than it would be for one of Paige's church buddies to be anti-communism.

Liz also quotes Lenin on religion directly with "religion is the opiate of the masses." It's very much about what Paige's reasons are, not what Paige is actually doing.

Fetus Tree
Feb 2, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 5 years!


I could never get into homeland :shrug:

I tried twice and it just didn't stick with me.

beanieson
Sep 25, 2008

I had the opportunity to change literally anything about the world and I used it to get a new av


savinhill posted:

They just stopped showing Dana's storyline & scenes midway through the latest season of Homeland because they were so lovely and annoying.

lol I actually just finished catching up on Homeland today and until I read your post I didn't realize they'd cut out her whole storyline. That's how lovely it was, once it was gone I never once missed it, or questioned what was going on with her.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?


Jared's last scene was pretty ridiculous, and a lot of what he said could have been excised and moved to the conversation between Mags and the Jennings. However, I do think that the speech, and the performance behind it, was great at illustrating a level of fanaticism that gave even Phil and Liz some pause.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 04:18 on May 23, 2014

Naylenas
Sep 11, 2003

I was out of my head so it was out of my hands




Fetus Tree posted:

I could never get into homeland :shrug:

I tried twice and it just didn't stick with me.

Americans:Homeland::T-bone Steak:baconator

So don't worry about it.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


TheAngryDrunk posted:

I'm not sure at what point they decided Jared did it, but I didn't get the impression it was a last minute thing. After they ruled out Larrick, they didn't really introduce any other suspects.
I'mstill a little borthered by the idea that he managed to fire four shots in a hotel room, without anyone noticing.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007



Not implausible if the gun had a suppressor.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


pentyne posted:

I'd be nice for season 3 to really set up a division between Phillip and Liz where he starts to see the writing on the wall re: Russian being completely out of its depth and close to collapse, but Liz is still "no that's capitalistic propoganda, our children belong to The Cause Glorious Russia will triumph".

The problem there is at the time few people outside the central committee were truly aware how dire things were, in large part because of secrecy but also what information was available was often unreliable.

No idea how long the show will run, but it'd be really interesting if they included the USSR's dissolution and the continuity in Russia's foreign operations, since the spy programs obviously didn't disappear overnight in 1991.

Fill Baptismal
Dec 15, 2008


Yeah the KGB itself didn't think a collapse was imminent, and when it was they panicked and straight up attempted a coup that probably actually accelerated the fall of USSR.

The August 1991 coup is something I'm really looking forward to seeing depicted in the show. Stuff like glasnost and perestroika were incredibly controversial among soviet hard-liners, so they could very plausibly spin Elizabeth and Philip falling out over it.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


comes along bort posted:

The problem there is at the time few people outside the central committee were truly aware how dire things were, in large part because of secrecy but also what information was available was often unreliable.

No idea how long the show will run, but it'd be really interesting if they included the USSR's dissolution and the continuity in Russia's foreign operations, since the spy programs obviously didn't disappear overnight in 1991.

Phillip has shown signs of starting to see that the US isn't the unambiguously evil monster to the pure and honorable USSR. Some of the times when Liz starts her rants about how monstrous the US and how much better the USSR is you can see Phillip doesn't really buy it anymore.

After the news gets out that they stole the fake propeller data and sunk a sub Liz is horrified and blames Reagan personally, while Phillip is more "poo poo that was a waste of time"

pentyne fucked around with this message at 09:28 on May 23, 2014

coma
Oct 21, 2010



I think I might be done with this show, the "second-generation" illegals thing is completely retarded. Why would you risk trying to turn a hitherto clueless child into a plant at the CIA/FBI/DoD when you can just do what you've been doing already, which is turning people within the organization, which is how it was actually done with great effect in the 70s and 80s and how it was already working in the show.

Fetus Tree
Feb 2, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 5 years!


Yeah, depending on how this second generation thing goes I might be out too.

Then again it could just hilariously blow up in their face after an episode or two and then they go back to their other :shrug:

E: i really like this show i just have zero interest in watching any significant time devoted to Spy Kids: The Show

Antifa Sarkeesian
Jun 4, 2009

yo les digo que no, que no soy la madre de nadie, pero que, eso si, los conozco a todos, a todos los jóvenes poetas del DF, a los que nacieron aquí y a los que llegaron de provincias, y a los que el oleaje trajo de otros lugares de Latinoamérica, y que los quiero a todos

jscolon2.0 posted:

Liz also quotes Lenin on religion directly with "religion is the opiate of the masses." It's very much about what Paige's reasons are, not what Paige is actually doing.

Karl Marx said this not Lenin

nooneofconsequence
Oct 29, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.



coma posted:

I think I might be done with this show, the "second-generation" illegals thing is completely retarded. Why would you risk trying to turn a hitherto clueless child into a plant at the CIA/FBI/DoD when you can just do what you've been doing already, which is turning people within the organization, which is how it was actually done with great effect in the 70s and 80s and how it was already working in the show.

In the finale alone two plants got killed, one of which snapped and murdered two agents, while another turned them down after months of being worked. So it ain't going so great at the moment.

nooneofconsequence fucked around with this message at 11:48 on May 23, 2014

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.


Panda Bear posted:

Karl Marx said this not Lenin

*facepalm*

Point being, Liz hates religion simply because it's religion.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009



nooneofconsequence posted:

In the finale alone two plants got killed, one of which snapped and murdered two agents, while another turned them down after months of being worked. So it ain't going so great at the moment.

Well both of them were basically being blackmailed, so that's not surprising that they couldn't be pushed endlessly. Someone converted on ideological basis would behave completely differently.

Second-gen on the other hand is completely ridiculous, but as long as they don't turn the show into spy kids and just use it as one of the plots to set up a conflict between Phil and Liz and the Center, that's fine by me.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004



I liked the season overall, but the second-generation plot feels pretty contrived to me. I'm just not buying that even Elizabeth would be seriously considering this after freaking out about the fate of her children all year. She seems pretty resigned to the idea that they're going to be caught and/or killed someday, and obviously the deeper their kids get into the spy game, the worse that turns out for them. If they weren't the stars of a tv show centered around absurdly over-the-top spy antics, maybe Center could sell them on it by allowing Philip and Elizabeth to tone things down to preserve their cover so Paige could join the CIA as a more white collar spy, but obviously we aren't waiting several years for Paige to start having spy adventures while the parents sit around being boring Americans. The Cold War will pretty much be over by then anyway.

Cuddly Tumblemumps
Aug 23, 2013

Postmodernity means the exhilarating freedom to pursue anything, yet mind-boggling uncertainty as to what is worth pursuing and in the name of what one should pursue it.

coma posted:

I think I might be done with this show, the "second-generation" illegals thing is completely retarded. Why would you risk trying to turn a hitherto clueless child into a plant at the CIA/FBI/DoD when you can just do what you've been doing already, which is turning people within the organization, which is how it was actually done with great effect in the 70s and 80s and how it was already working in the show.

There is that, the historical precdent for what kinda spying the KGB preferred, and the administrative instability of the KGB and related 'security' services during the late 70s-80s. That's a lot of disbelief for me to suspend, but the average viewer probably doesn't know much beyond what critics reviews and current media reports are like, and they may be totally receptive to the idea of intergenertational deep cover spy planning and wonder if that is how Putin really invaded Crimea. v:v:v

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


coma posted:

I think I might be done with this show, the "second-generation" illegals thing is completely retarded. Why would you risk trying to turn a hitherto clueless child into a plant at the CIA/FBI/DoD when you can just do what you've been doing already, which is turning people within the organization, which is how it was actually done with great effect in the 70s and 80s and how it was already working in the show.

I'd honestly be surprised if they went in that literal a direction. That's like network level dumb. If anything it'll be a background threat which serves to drive a deeper wedge between Philip and Elizabeth.

I hope at some point the show has them either go back to Russia (not likely) or somehow put them into a situation where they confront the fact it's not the same place they left 20 years prior.

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.


Sinteres posted:

The Cold War will pretty much be over by then anyway.

Based on Henry's line about Wrath of Khan it's 82 now. Paige is what, 14 or 15 now?

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004



jscolon2.0 posted:

Based on Henry's line about Wrath of Khan it's 82 now. Paige is what, 14 or 15 now?

Yeah, so she's still 7 or 8 years away from finishing college, putting us at or beyond the fall of the Berlin Wall (and almost certainly beyond the time frame of the show unless they start skipping years). I guess the easy out here is for Philip and Elizabeth to remember all the damage their job has done to them over the years and decide not to do that to their daughter, but other than that I don't really know where this can realistically go.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Naylenas posted:

Americans:Homeland::T-bone Steak:baconator

So don't worry about it.

Nah, Homeland season 1 was great. Shame they didn't make any more seasons so it never became a huge mess and a terrible show.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust



I loved the first half of season 2 and the last few episodes of season 3 were good too. Homeland could be edited down to an amazing show.

Naylenas
Sep 11, 2003

I was out of my head so it was out of my hands




CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Nah, Homeland season 1 was great. Shame they didn't make any more seasons so it never became a huge mess and a terrible show.

The first bite of a baconator ain't too shabby either.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?


Wow, and I thought zoux was weird for refusing to watch a show that hasn't been renewed. It's absolutely hilarious to me that anyone would consider quitting a show because of what they think might happen next season based on five minutes of dialogue. Most likely this will just be a source of tension, and Paige will remain blissfully unaware of what her parents do. Even if they go through with it, there's no reason to assume that, given the timeline of the show, it would progress further than just introducing her to Soviet ideology. That actually would have the potential to be really interesting. It's not like they'll all of a sudden have Paige acting as her parents' getaway driver.


coma posted:

I think I might be done with this show, the "second-generation" illegals thing is completely retarded. Why would you risk trying to turn a hitherto clueless child into a plant at the CIA/FBI/DoD when you can just do what you've been doing already, which is turning people within the organization, which is how it was actually done with great effect in the 70s and 80s and how it was already working in the show.

The writers have done a pretty good job showing how turning people is difficult and potentially dangerous. They had that one man last season who tried to bargain with the FBI and turn in the General. You had Larrick this season, who was on the verge of turning Phil and Liz in. And Stan, who basically fell into the KGB's lap, ended up not being willing to go as far as they wanted. If they had an agent of their own in Stan's position, then Echo would have been theirs for the taking.

Also, the Russians tried it:

quote:

Tim Foley was among the children most extensively groomed for a future spy career, officials say. Though he wasn't American-born, his parents lived in the U.S. for more than a decade, under the assumed names Donald Heathfield and Tracey Foley. Mr. Foley was 20 when his parents were arrested and had just finished his sophomore year at George Washington University in the nation's capital.

His parents revealed their double life to him well before their arrest, according to current and former officials, whose knowledge of the discussion was based on surveillance by the Federal Bureau of Investigation that included bugging suspects' homes. The officials said the parents also told their son they wanted him to follow in their footsteps.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390444097904577537044185191340

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


JohnSherman posted:

Wow, and I thought zoux was weird for refusing to watch a show that hasn't been renewed. It's absolutely hilarious to me that anyone would consider quitting a show because of what they think might happen next season based on five minutes of dialogue. Most likely this will just be a source of tension, and Paige will remain blissfully unaware of what her parents do. Even if they go through with it, there's no reason to assume that, given the timeline of the show, it would progress further than just introducing her to Soviet ideology. That actually would have the potential to be really interesting. It's not like they'll all of a sudden have Paige acting as her parents' getaway driver.

To be fair it was introduced in an extremely ham-handed fashion, which could lead people to reasonably believe they'd follow through with it in equally stupid measure.


e: And of course Alan Sepinwall thinks it's the greatest thing ever.

Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 08:40 on May 24, 2014

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






It turns out Paige is secretly Anna Chapman all along

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your launch.... 'cause mine's gonna be suborbital

zVxTeflon posted:

It turns out Paige is secretly Anna Chapman all along

That's the great thing about this - supposedly all the 'spies' that got snapped up along with her had basically done nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program

Chapman got taken down passing a fake passport to a fake 'illegal' in a sting operation, and even that Wiki page claims that's the highest-profile thing she'd ever done.

Also, christ those are *horrible* mugshots. Most of them look drugged, but I'm guessing they were taken after a marathon interrogation session.

This is the best part of it all, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program#Communication_techniques

"Custom steganographic software developed in Moscow was used where concealed messages were inserted into otherwise innocuous files. This program was initiated by using the Control-Alt-E keys and entering a 27-character password, which the FBI found written down."

Great OPSEC there, guys.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 10:29 on May 24, 2014

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass.


Where was the location where they filmed Mags telling them Paige was next? It looked pretty cool.

CelestialScribe
Jan 16, 2008


Wait, so what was the file Arkady blackmailed Stan with?

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your launch.... 'cause mine's gonna be suborbital

CelestialScribe posted:

Wait, so what was the file Arkady blackmailed Stan with?

Just having proof he hosed Nina is enough to cost him his clearance *forever* and in so doing, pretty much ruin his life. I'm also rather certain the file had the printouts of what Oleg requested, which would tack on jail time.

It just begs the question of whether or not Arkady leaks the material to the FBI simply out of spite for wasting his time and setting him up to look incompetent and incapable of developing high-level agents.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 28, 2014

Apoplexy
Mar 9, 2003

by Shine


SCARYJEINFELD posted:

I'm going to miss Larrick, he was a piece of poo poo but in a different story he would be hero (or atleast anti-hero) instead of the big bad.

Just did a marathon of both seasons, since I watched half of the first season and then watched the second half on oxy and playing games and I remembered nothing but the barest points of the last two episodes. loving amazing second season, as well as the first of course. Larrick was a great threat to have built up throughout the season, and the way they made legitimately interesting and likable characters out of Oleg and Arkadi owns. This show has literally no weaknesses right now.

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precision
May 7, 2006

hug your posting pals


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Nah, Homeland season 1 was great. Shame they didn't make any more seasons so it never became a huge mess and a terrible show.

The first half of season 2 was just fine, I thought. Though to be honest, the way season 1 went down it would have been better left as a standalone.

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