Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



AAA DOLFAN posted:

Watched pretty quick - what happened to that other couple? They were murdered by... who?

I'm guessing the next few episodes will be spent figuring that out.

Great intense opening.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Good episode. Glad to finally have some good music this season!

Pron on VHS posted:

Im guessing Aunt Helen is a Soviet as well, but what was the deal with her forgetting Paige's name and calling her Shelly? Is she pretending to be senile?

Yeah exactly, she was pretending to not recognize Paige in order to avoid explaining anything.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Propaganda Machine posted:

Paige starts putting things together,

Flashbacks.

FBI tells Nina he loves her. She reports back to Moscow.

Felicity checks up on orphaned Russian boy in his foster home. All seems well.

Paige gets in trouble for visiting a relative.

What am I missing?

You forgot Stan shooting the "walk in" from the previous episode and Elizabeth scaring the poo poo out of that poor shmoe in the propeller factory

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



wukkar posted:

She decided that if Paige and Henry were orphaned by her and Phillip dying, she would want them to keep their ignorance that their parents were Russian spies. That's why she burned OtherRussianSpyCouple's kid's letter despite promising to deliver it.

I don't think that's the only reason. If she gave the kid that letter it would cause a huge clusterfuck, no matter how she feels about Paige and Henry.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



savinhill posted:

Was Aunt Helen introduced or referred to in season 1 and I've forgotten? I can't remember if season 1 featured any scenes that had the parents talking to the kids about their extended families, or lack of them.

She was mentioned towards the end of the last episode of season 1 as an aunt that Elizabeth was supposedly visiting (but really she was recovering from her gunshot wound).

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Twee as gently caress posted:

I think the Paige storyline is completely unrealistic. Their parents have done nothing that could arouse her suspicion, especially not to that level. It all started what, when she couldn't sleep and wanted to talk to her mother but she wasn't in her room and then saw her coming from the basement.

I think it started before that. Paige told the girl on the bus that her suspicion was initially that one of her parents was having an affair, which kind of makes sense given what happened last season with Philip moving out etc. and I think it's reasonable that she still has some vague sense of suspicion but can't put her finger on it.

It's especially a bit strange that, as far as she knows, they have no living relatives except for the mysterious "Aunt Helen" she's never been allowed to meet before, even though she lives just a couple hours away. The fact that her mother disappeared for weeks or months to help this "Aunt" who until then had never been a part of their lives seems pretty suspicious.

Don't the kids wonder about where their family comes from? They must have been told something but other than Philip's vague "I lost my father at 6" the show hasn't explained.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Tortolia posted:

I just loved watching Philip laying down the law with her. He's the "nice" parent and that just made it all the more striking when he sat her down. It also helped that you couldn't tell how much of the anger was because she was snooping around their spy cover and how much was genuine parental disapproval at her lying and thinking she was smart enough to get away with it.

Well he was probably also pissed because he's very worried about the kids being in danger, and Paige left her younger brother alone in the house for several hours when she was supposed to be watching him.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Yeah she is a pretty boring character because there's no indication of her having any kind of life or interests outside of her being suspicious of her parents. I thought last season they were working towards some kind of situation where she and Stan's son had some kind of romance, which could have been pretty awful, but they seem to have all but gotten rid of that dude.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



No he hasn't been seen this season at all, but he was briefly mentioned in the last episode in a scene that seemed to serve little other purpose than remind us that he exists and that Stan is horribly awkward with his wife.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Exactly I don't think he was thinking about Elizabeth as just one person, she represented a whole world of poo poo that he just didn't want to be involved in regardless of how many pounds he has on her.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Phenotype posted:

I love this.

I also am not at all disliking the Paige scenes, and I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on them. Maybe it's because we don't see MORE Paige scenes where she's at school telling her friends "My mom said to me 'Why would you open a closed door, Paige?' You mean your parents open doors all the time?" or talking about how her parents would disappear all the time when she was young and could barely remember. But I don't think that would be good for the show, either. I think we just have to accept the fact that Paige has long harbored suspicions about her parents and she's growing up enough that she wants to check on them. And honestly, I think you should have known there would be a kids-finding-out storyline coming in -- this show was always going to be about the challenges of Russian spies living as a nuclear family with children.

I think the problem with Paige is that she doesn't have much of a personality beyond being suspicious of her parents and just being kind of annoying in general. She doesn't seem to have any interests or passions or hobbies or anything. I mean teenagers are often obsessed with some band or with their social situation at school or with some idea of what they want to be later in life, and we don't see any of that side of her, she's just someone who worries and who they worry about. Henry has just as little of a personality but he's also less present as a character so it's less bothersome, but really the kids exist more as symbols of what Elizabeth and Philipp are afraid of than actual fleshed out characters, which makes scenes that revolve around them a bit grating. Even Martha has more of a personality than either of them.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Mo0 posted:

It's a combination of that and how up until this past episode they hadn't really made clear just what, exactly, started making her suspicious all of a sudden. All they needed was something like this past episode, where she said out loud that she thought one of her parents might've been having an affair, and there, okay, fine, she's checking to see if she was right about that. I realize the show isn't in the business of always underlining explicitly what people mean by things but in this case just a tiny hint would've helped with (in my case) her appearing to start checking things based on the world's flimsiest reason (Mom was in the laundry room at night!)

No I think she started being suspicious when it seemed like the marriage was falling apart and Philipp moved out, which is pretty understandable.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Mo0 posted:

Which is true, I guess it felt like you didn't really see her do anything drastic until the laundry scene, and so it felt like she'd decided THAT'S THE LAST STRAW, which... what?

I think the laundry thing just gave her specific place to look because that seemed odd to her, but she was already suspicious before that.

quote:

The bigger problem still remains how neither her nor Henry have really been fleshed out as characters, as mentioned before. Unless the intent is for Henry to be the world's most average child, all he really exists to serve as is a reminder to one or both parents of what normal is/what they're defending, which is fine until you start hanging a plot on Paige like that, and then she just starts to feel like a walking plot device.

Exactly, they just aren't really characters so scenes that focus on them can be annoying to watch. They are just symbols of "the children" rather than people with their own thoughts or needs that are unrelated to Philipp and Elizabeth.

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 16, 2014

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



precision posted:

I'm just waiting for Paige to dye her hair green and hang a Dead Kennedys poster up, causing much confusion for Liz and Phil.

Though seriously it would be great if one of the retro musical sequences we get is set to "California Uber Alles".

In season 3 Paige as a college student goes for a year abroad in West Germany, falls in with the antifa punk crowd and Philipp and Elizabeth show up in disguise and use her new circle of friends to funnel money to Red Army Faction

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Great episode but I'm also confused about the device Martha had. I don't think it's the device that Philip had her hide in Gaad's office, because I'm pretty sure the device she put in his office was a pen, while the device she had in this episode was larger and rectangular, more like a typical voice memo recorder from that period.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Dr_Strangelove posted:

She will disappear soon. Philip has no other reasonable course of action.

I have no idea why he agreed to that sham marriage. It had to unravel at some point. I think he knew that it would, and that he'd just deal with the situation when it happened. But he could have stretched the operation further without such a dangerous play.

I guess he thought he couldn't get her to bug Gaad's office without that level of commitment, but yeah it seemed pretty sloppy, I don't remember the wedding scene that well but he did meet Martha's parents and she probably has other relatives and friends not to mention her FBI coworkers who will be rather concerned about her inevitable disappearance. I guess he can just make it look like she was the victim of some random mugging gone wrong or something like I think they tried to do with Chris, but they had to sacrifice someone over that mess.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



IMO I think it would be really dumb to have any actual historical figure be a character on the show. I love it when episodes revolve around historical events like the Reagan assassination attempt or the Polish Solidarity movement, but having specific people from that time showing up would kind of take it in a silly direction. Though I'm sure they'll reference characters like Hanssen. In fact I think that air force guy with the gambling problem in season 1 was meant to be a sort of stand in for that type.

The death of Brezhnev will be a big topic soon I'm sure since I think the show is at some point in late 81 or early 82 now? That will probably cause some sort of shakeup. Maybe Arkady will be promoted or sent off somewhere and that annoying new guy with the family connections (Oleg?) will become Nina's new boss.

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 25, 2014

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



precision posted:

I mean Jesus Christ you don't fire your super-scientists because they believe in some harmless funny thing

A person who follows a religion recognizes an authority greater than the Soviet state and so is already a "traitor" in that sense. On top of that, there was already a lot of latent anti-Semitism in Russia dating back from well before the revolution, which continued to manifest in Soviet propaganda and in some of Stalin's show trials and purges, and the existence of Israel in the second half of the 20th century exacerbated this further as many suspected that Jews would automatically be more loyal to Israel than to their own homeland (this has been an issue in many places).

However the issue was generally not the Soviets firing their scientists but rather imprisoning them, in many cases they'd still be forced to work knowing that, if they didn't, any family members or even friends living elsewhere would be targets. They knew they needed the brainpower of these scientists that they didn't trust which was part of the whole reason for those secret cities.

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 30, 2014

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Finally saw the episode and it was really weird. Why the needlessly long, tortuous and generally bad explanation of the early internet? And lots of other weird things like the conversation about paint, Henry's rear window subplot and videogames obsession, Philipp singing some dadrock song to him, the "squeeze your anus" moment, the new handler dressed up like a spy in an old movie and Philip pointing it out.. it all just made the show way sillier, a very different tone from the usual

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Even the scene where Philip kills the student seemed mostly comical to me, especially compared with any other death/murder in series. Student turns around all "huh?" and then creepo Philip is standing right next to him, cut to creepo Philip pushing the trashcan down the hall

The sketchy janitor is definitely one of Philip's best disguises I hope we see more of it. Wasn't that the same outfit he used when he killed that pedo guy who was trying to hit on Paige?

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



There's a big blood vessel right there, if you get stabbed in the junk and don't get to the doctor quick you probably will die. I thought he stabbed that dude a bunch of times anyway.

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 13, 2014

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



comes along bort posted:

That would be hilarious if a bit predictable- finally agree to defect with Stan's help only to find out he's defected to the Soviets

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



precision posted:

Probably the best episode this season, at least since the premiere. It's amazing that I hated Oleg so much at first and now he's fantastic, and I genuinely don't know if he's "true to the cause :ussr: " or if he's smart enough to just be really cynical about both sides.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was planning to defect

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Oleg is from an "important family" so it's not necessarily just his father who's some bigshot, could be a grandfather, uncle, mother, etc. and it might not even be their job but just someone who has a close relationship with Brezhnev or Andropov

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Fetus Tree posted:

BTW, what year is it in this show? 82?

Yes

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Mu Zeta posted:

Is Lucasfilm a communist front or something

Quite the opposite. Return of the Jedi was when the full merchandising potential of the series was realized with the inclusion of the ewoks and a bunch of made for tv ewok-oriented spinoffs and toys etc. It is celebrated worldwide as the victory of Capitalism over Art.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Season 2 is definitely better than season 1, IMO, but they still have a crisis every week for the first half of the season and then it accelerates into one major arc over the last several episodes.

What I really like about this season in addition to the plot itself is the way they really flushed out other characters at the Rezidentura. Arkady and Oleg are both great and Nina became a much more interesting character as well.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Damo posted:

Just finished watching through both seasons of this show, and it was fantastic. It's a shame it doesn't get more attention, in general, and on these forums. Hopefully by season 3 there will be more interest. The show deserves it. It's not perfect, but it's easily in the top tier of TV programs at the moment.

I loving love Matthew Rhys. Especially when his character gets all into american culture. One of my favorite moments of the last season was him driving home in his new Camero, getting out and singing/dancing along to the music on the radio :3:

I cannot believe how Elizabeth would consider allowing Paige to be used by the Soviets as a 2nd generation illegal after what she saw happen to the other spies family, and particularly what had just went down with Jared's gruesome end. It's a bit unbelievable after all the concern she's showed for he children. It also should be obvious to her, as it is to Phil, how Paige is in no way suited to that life, even if they wanted it for her.

drat you bumping this thread I thought the show had come back.

re: Elizabeth it's fairly believable just in the sense that while she has showed some concern for her children she is also a hardline Soviet loyalist to a extreme degree and also both she and Philip are sociopathic murderers so their attitudes about life and family are probably a bit abnormal anyway..

My favorite thing about Matthew Rhys is that dude is Welsh. He does a better American accent than any other Brit actor I can think of including Gary Oldman, Dominic West, Idris Elba, etc.

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Sep 11, 2014

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



That reminds me of that awesome scene when Philip rips up the Bible. YOU RESPECT JESUS BUT NOT US?!

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



She is in season 2 just not quite as much. I think it had to do with conflicting schedules with another show that Margo Martindale is in.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSu2dpWBjfQ

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



New thread needs a new classic spy novel/80's hit pairing.

The Spy Who Came In from a Crazy Little Thing Called Love?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



I have a theory that Oleg is going to try to defect this season

  • Locked thread