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irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda



Well he was technically dead from 2004 until 2010

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zoux
Apr 28, 2006



irlZaphod posted:

Well he was technically dead from 2004 until 2010

Huh, so there were zero Thor comics during that time or did they have like robot Thor and Beta Ray Bill comics.

Also, I read the Cap Reborn stuff this weekend, and even though it was pretty obvious that they wanted to bring Steve back pretty quickly, were people mad that they brought him back so soon?

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


zoux posted:

Huh, so there were zero Thor comics during that time or did they have like robot Thor and Beta Ray Bill comics.

Also, I read the Cap Reborn stuff this weekend, and even though it was pretty obvious that they wanted to bring Steve back pretty quickly, were people mad that they brought him back so soon?

It was obvious that Steve was coming back from the very beginning. I mean in the omnibus the script for his death issue has stuff blacked out. Yeah the only thor comics between Dissassembled and JMS's run were Beta Ray Bill, mini series, and the Robot Thor first appeared in Civil War. Funny enough Miller wanted to bring Thor back for that role, but they told him no.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





zoux posted:

Huh, so there were zero Thor comics during that time or did they have like robot Thor and Beta Ray Bill comics.

Also, I read the Cap Reborn stuff this weekend, and even though it was pretty obvious that they wanted to bring Steve back pretty quickly, were people mad that they brought him back so soon?


There were. Here's the basic recent Thor/Donald Blake timeline.

The Ragnarok event happens and Thor and the other gods are killed/left in a void of nothingness. (2006)
Donald Blake finds Mjolner and is transported to the nothingess/void where he convinces Thor to come back to life and bring all the old Gods back to life. They have their standard swapping bodies relationship (2007)
JMS takes forever to write a handful of issues so the Thor books are finally dragged into another event book with Siege and Fraction takes over after a brief Gillen run (2010)
Thor film comes out and is popular (2011)
Fear Itself a terrible comic which was a Captain America/Thor crossover happens and Thor "dies" for a handful of panels. (2011)
Matt Fraction writes an arc where Donald Blake is written out of existance because he's not in the film. (2012)

From then on Thor is just always Thor.

Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Mar 3, 2014

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Waterhaul posted:


JMS takes forever to write a handful of issues so the Thor books are finally dragged into another event book with Siege where Thor is "killed again". (2010)


Ugh I am so sick of Dark Reign/Siege, and I'm binge reading through them. I can't imagine what it was like being trapped in that for like a year and a half real time.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!


Did Donald Blake ever add anything to Thor?

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





He's supposed to be a constant reminder for Thor to keep his hubris in check.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



StumblyWumbly posted:

Did Donald Blake ever add anything to Thor?

I'm pretty sure he was just there because superheroes in the 60s had a secret identity.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


Waterhaul posted:

There were. Here's the basic recent Thor/Donald Blake timeline.

The Ragnarok event happens and Thor and the other gods are killed/left in a void of nothingness. (2006)
Donald Blake finds Mjolner and is transported to the nothingess/void where he convinces Thor to come back to life and bring all the old Gods back to life. They have their standard swapping bodies relationship (2007)
JMS takes forever to write a handful of issues so the Thor books are finally dragged into another event book with Siege and Fraction takes over after a brief Gillen run (2010)
Thor film comes out and is popular (2011)
Fear Itself a terrible comic which was a Captain America/Thor crossover happens and Thor "dies" for a handful of panels. (2011)
Matt Fraction writes an arc where Donald Blake is written out of existance because he's not in the film. (2012)

From then on Thor is just always Thor.

I thought Ragnarok event was in 2004-2005. I also thought that JMS was told he could write Thor as he wanted until a certain point were he would be brought back into the greater Marvel Universe. Then when that happened with Secret Invasion/Siege, JMS had a hissy fit and left the title.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





bobkatt013 posted:

I thought Ragnarok event was in 2004-2005. I also thought that JMS was told he could write Thor as he wanted until a certain point were he would be brought back into the greater Marvel Universe. Then when that happened with Secret Invasion/Siege, JMS had a hissy fit and left the title.

I got my dates slightly mixed. Thor ends in '05 and then Donald Blake returns in the lead up to Civil War in '06 which leads into JMS on Thor in '07.

As for JMS he was told he can do whatever he wants with Thor but then took forever to do the books until Marvel got fed up of waiting and just went with doing the Siege event. JMS did his usually of throwing his toys out of the pram and left.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Wasn't Thor actually supposed to come back during Civil War, since they had that whole thing with Mjolner in Fantastic Four which ended up not being resolved for forever.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


muscles like this? posted:

Wasn't Thor actually supposed to come back during Civil War, since they had that whole thing with Mjolner in Fantastic Four which ended up not being resolved for forever.

Miller wanted him to come back on the pro side and I guess kill someone. The editors told him no, and thats why we got robot thor and another moment that made Tony look awful.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



Waterhaul posted:

I got my dates slightly mixed. Thor ends in '05 and then Donald Blake returns in the lead up to Civil War in '06 which leads into JMS on Thor in '07.

As for JMS he was told he can do whatever he wants with Thor but then took forever to do the books until Marvel got fed up of waiting and just went with doing the Siege event. JMS did his usually of throwing his toys out of the pram and left.

Not going to dispute him being a big baby, but I still think what he was doing in that book was much more interesting than whatever the gently caress went on in Siege. His run is the only one that ever made me give a poo poo about Donald Blake.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda



zoux posted:

Huh, so there were zero Thor comics during that time or did they have like robot Thor and Beta Ray Bill comics.
There was no Thor ongoing during this time, but there were a few things. The Stormbreaker and Godhunter Beta Ray Bill minis were published and Bill appeared in Omega Flight, JMS set up Thor's return during his FF, the robot/clone showed up in Civil War etc. Basically, because sales had been flagging, Marvel decided to put him on ice for a little while, until someone pitched the right Thor story to bring him back.

zoux posted:

Also, I read the Cap Reborn stuff this weekend, and even though it was pretty obvious that they wanted to bring Steve back pretty quickly, were people mad that they brought him back so soon?
Nobody was mad I don't think, no-one expected him to stay dead. I kinda wish Bucky had stayed as Cap for longer though, with Steve as, I dunno, head of SHIELD or something.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty


I recently finally caught the first Thor film, and Donald Blake does exist in the film? He doesn't physically appear, but he's Jane's Thor-sized ex she has some clothes of still, and they later appropriate the name as an alias for Thor to (rather poorly) spring him out of Shield hands.

The Question IRL
Jun 8, 2013

Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...


Waterhaul posted:

There were. Here's the basic recent Thor/Donald Blake timeline.

The Ragnarok event happens and Thor and the other gods are killed/left in a void of nothingness. (2006)
Donald Blake finds Mjolner and is transported to the nothingess/void where he convinces Thor to come back to life and bring all the old Gods back to life. They have their standard swapping bodies relationship (2007)
JMS takes forever to write a handful of issues so the Thor books are finally dragged into another event book with Siege and Fraction takes over after a brief Gillen run (2010)
Thor film comes out and is popular (2011)
Fear Itself a terrible comic which was a Captain America/Thor crossover happens and Thor "dies" for a handful of panels. (2011)
Matt Fraction writes an arc where Donald Blake is written out of existance because he's not in the film. (2012)

From then on Thor is just always Thor.

I've been reading Thor since he came back post Heroes Reborn. And I read Mike Omeing's ending story of Thor (Ragnarok) and really liking. I thought it was a cool, epic story with great artwork and an interesting metaphor where The Ones Who Sit in Shadows were a stand in for the creative minds at Marvel, and it had a nice send off to Thor.

But what baffled me was how everyone who read that comic (online at the time) were so convinced that Marvel had killed Thor. I mean even ignoring at how death is treated in comics, Thor doesn't even die in that comic. Sure he destroys all of Asguard, but he's clearly left at the end, and he talks about how he's going to rebuild everything, but first he needs to sleep.

It just seemed to me that it was really obvious he was going to return as set out within the story itself but people were like "Nope, he's dead. And there's no coming back from that."

But one thing I had read at the time (and I can't for the life of me find it) some time after Planet Hulk Marvel posted up this interview with Greg Pakk where he talked about his original plan for Planet Hulk was that Thor was going to take the part of Silver Surfer. (Some idea that he had fallen out of God space and landed on the world and been enslaved.) That's why you have the Surfer wielding a Mace for most of his appearances, it was supposed to be a hammer.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





muscles like this? posted:

Wasn't Thor actually supposed to come back during Civil War, since they had that whole thing with Mjolner in Fantastic Four which ended up not being resolved for forever.

Yeah. Part of getting JMS to write Thor was that nobody else was allowed to touch the character during his run which is why the robot Thor came into existence. Then when Marvel went to do Siege he threw a fit, left the book, Gillen tied up some loose ends and Bendis wrote it that Thor was cool with everyone again.


Hakkesshu posted:

Not going to dispute him being a big baby, but I still think what he was doing in that book was much more interesting than whatever the gently caress went on in Siege. His run is the only one that ever made me give a poo poo about Donald Blake.

I didn't care for JMS Thor run but yeah anything is better than Siege and Fear Itself but hey at least we have God of Thunder now.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006



zoux posted:

Ugh I am so sick of Dark Reign/Siege, and I'm binge reading through them. I can't imagine what it was like being trapped in that for like a year and a half real time.

I really enjoyed that era, especially after Secret Invasion. Just catching up on Remender's Punisher now, I like it even more.

e: Have you been reading Secret Warriors? That a great part of it.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 3, 2014

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Teenage Fansub posted:

I really enjoyed that era, especially after Secret Invasion. Just catching up on Remender's Punisher now, I like it even more.

e: Have you been reading Secret Warriors? That a great part of it.

Nah, I'm just reading through stuff like Iron Man and Captain America and I keep running into this giant wall of Dark Reign and Siege and that's usually where I'll stop and go read another book until that point. I figure I'll read the core Siege series at some point and then move beyond it. Now that I've read all the X-books up to AvX I figure I'll catch up to AvX in the other "main" titles and then read AvX all at once.

Oh as for a question what are the main Avengers books post Civil War? I know they split into the official and secret teams, but every time there's a huge event they split or change the Avengers books, it seems.

zoux fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 3, 2014

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!



zoux posted:

Nah, I'm just reading through stuff like Iron Man and Captain America and I keep running into this giant wall of Dark Reign and Siege and that's usually where I'll stop and go read another book until that point. I figure I'll read the core Siege series at some point and then move beyond it. Now that I've read all the X-books up to AvX I figure I'll catch up to AvX in the other "main" titles and then read AvX all at once.

Secret Warriors really was pretty good. It runs into Dark Reign for a couple issues but most of it is just Nick Fury saving the world one last time before retirement.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Len posted:

Secret Warriors really was pretty good. It runs into Dark Reign for a couple issues but most of it is just Nick Fury saving the world one last time before retirement.

Yeah he showed up with his team in one the Secret Invasion books and I remember reading a Dark Avengers where Ares gives him permission to train Phobos, but I didn't know what book that stuff happened in.

When and why did Fury leave SHIELD anyway?

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



The miniseries Secret War is basically a prequel to Secret Warriors and has Fury leaving SHIELD.

Basically it was because he found out that Latveria was secretly funding a bunch of super criminals and went on an illegal mission to stop it.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006



zoux posted:

Oh as for a question what are the main Avengers books post Civil War? I know they split into the official and secret teams, but every time there's a huge event they split or change the Avengers books, it seems.

Bendis kept up on the mainline Avengers book right up till Hickman in the Marvel NOW!.
So, New Avengers and Mighty Avengers up through Secret Invasion, Dark Avengers and New Avengers during Dark Reign, Avengers and New Avengers from there till AvX, then Hickmania.

There was also Secret Avengers after Dark Reign starting with Ed Brubaker writing, which is a lot of fun.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Mar 3, 2014

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine


He lead a secret black ops mission against direct orders from the president into Latveria, which ended up blowing up in his face when an army of Latverian robots showed up in New York. Also he mind wiped the heroes who went with him.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Where is Nick Fury right now anyway?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda



zoux posted:

Oh as for a question what are the main Avengers books post Civil War? I know they split into the official and secret teams, but every time there's a huge event they split or change the Avengers books, it seems.

irlZaphod posted:

If you want to go back further, Brian Bendis has a long run as main Avengers writer/architect. In my opinion, it had some highs, but really was the victim of too many event books (and constantly changing status quos), and later bendis kinda phoning it in. Here's a recommended order of reading stuff (Event books are marked with a *):

0a)Secret War This is only tangentially related, but is worth a read
0b)Avengers Vol. 1 #500-503 [Disassembled] Note that this is a really bad story with awful art. It begins the whole thing but is pretty skippable, you could get by with just starting with New Avengers #1.
0c)Avengers Finale
1)New Avengers #1-10 [Breakout/Sentry]
2)*House of M #1-8
3)New Avengers #11-20 [Secrets and Lies/The Collective]
4)*Civil War #1-7
4a)New Avengers #21-25 [Civil War]
Post-Civil War, the books split into Mighty Avengers and New Avengers
5a)Mighty Avengers #1-11 [The Ultron Initiative/Venom Bomb]
5b)New Avengers #26-37 [Revolution/The Trust]
6)New Avengers: The Illuminati #1-5
OP Note: In my opinion, this is where poo poo starts to get whack.
7)*Secret Invasion #1-8
7a)New Avengers #38-47 [Secret Invasion Book 1/Secret Invasion Book 2]
7b)Mighty Avengers #12-20 [Secret Invasion Book 1/Secret Invasion Book 2]
Post-Secret Invasion, a third Avengers book launches, Dark Avengers.
8a)Mighty Avengers #21-31 [Earth's Mightiest/The Unspoken]
8b)New Avengers #48-60 [Power/Search For The Sorcerer Supreme/Powerloss]
8c)Dark Avengers #1-6, 9-12 [Dark Avengers Assemble/Molecule Man] Dark Avengers #7-8 is part of a crossover with Uncanny X-Men called Utopia
9)*Siege #1-4
9a)New Avengers #61-64 [Siege]
9b)Mighty Avengers #32-36 [Siege]
9c)Dark Avengers #13-16 [Siege]
10)New Avengers Finale
At this point, all the books are cancelled and relaunched, with Avengers Vol. 4 as the main book, and New Avengers Vol. 2 being a secondary, "street-level" book. You're on your own with those. If you do continue, don't read Fear Itself.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda



Aphrodite posted:

Where is Nick Fury right now anyway?
Dead, and replaced with Nick Fury Jr., who matches the film universe.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

irlZaphod posted:

Dead, and replaced with Nick Fury Jr., who matches the film universe.

He's not dead is he? I thought he was just in hiding at one of his numerous secret bases, you know, like Fury does.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



irlZaphod posted:

Dead, and replaced with Nick Fury Jr., who matches the film universe.

Is he dead? He retires at the end of Secret Warriors.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda



Oops I thought they killed him off.

Starsnostars
Jan 17, 2009

The Master of Magnetism


Aphrodite posted:

Where is Nick Fury right now anyway?

He's going to be one of the main characters in this year's event Original Sin.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





The Nick Fury situation is pretty hilarious because of how hamfisted it's done.

Regular Nick Fury is just doing his usual thing and is slowly written out of everything except for Brubaker's Winter Soldier run because he's an integral character and Bru is basically writing his run out of existence anyway. Then very terribly nuNick Fury and Coulson are introduced with the explanation that nuNick Fury will have a different role than regular Nick Fury (but doesn't and becomes the SHIELD stand in) and is forced into pretty much any book they can be. And from the looks of the Captain America 2 film Sam Jackson is possibly being killed off in the films so now regular rear end Nick Fury is allowed to show up in the comics again.


Just an entire pointless mess.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda



Waterhaul posted:

The Nick Fury situation is pretty hilarious because of how hamfisted it's done.

Regular Nick Fury is just doing his usual thing and is slowly written out of everything except for Brubaker's Winter Soldier run because he's an integral character and Bru is basically writing his run out of existence anyway. Then very terribly nuNick Fury and Coulson are introduced with the explanation that nuNick Fury will have a different role than regular Nick Fury (but doesn't and becomes the SHIELD stand in) and is forced into pretty much any book they can be. And from the looks of the Captain America 2 film Sam Jackson is possibly being killed off in the films so now regular rear end Nick Fury is allowed to show up in the comics again.


Just an entire pointless mess.
Doesn't Jackson have a 9 or more picture deal? What films has he been in? Iron Man (post-credits), Cap 1, Avengers, Norton Hulk...he wasn't in either Thor flick, was he? Or was he in a post-credits cameo in Thor? Then upcoming it'll be Cap 2, maybe Avengers 2?

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





irlZaphod posted:

Doesn't Jackson have a 9 or more picture deal? What films has he been in? Iron Man (post-credits), Cap 1, Avengers, Norton Hulk...he wasn't in either Thor flick, was he? Or was he in a post-credits cameo in Thor? Then upcoming it'll be Cap 2, maybe Avengers 2?

He is in both Iron Man 2 and the post credits for Thor. He actually wasn't in Hulk. And while I don't think they'll fully write him off for future films he may "die" for a bit.

The Question IRL
Jun 8, 2013

Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...


This is Nick Fury, the man practically has "No I didn't die, it was a LMD" as a super power.

Even if they decide to kill him off in the film (and not just a "Nick Fury is injured so SHIELD is rudderless during the Cap film), they can bring him back whenever they want.

There's no way he's being killed off, unless Samuel L. Jackson himself retires from acting.

As for comic Fury, I did find it funny how they had to go out of their way to remove Nick Fury Senior (with like the Infinity Formula being drained out of his body by a villain to make him too old to be a super spy, and a blanket statement that there is no more in the world or something) to make way for Nick Fury Jr.

And now he's going to be one of the main characters in the upcoming Marvel "Who Kills the Watchers" event*.


*= Name still subject to change.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

The Question IRL posted:

This is Nick Fury, the man practically has "No I didn't die, it was a LMD" as a super power.

Even if they decide to kill him off in the film (and not just a "Nick Fury is injured so SHIELD is rudderless during the Cap film), they can bring him back whenever they want.

And it looks like returning from death with no explanation is totally a viable option in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, if Coulson's anything to go by. He's an LMD, right? I haven't been watching Agents of SHIELD since everyone says it's bad, but they have to have revealed what his deal is by now, right?

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



No, he's just himself.

The secret shifted from how to why now.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

It was all going well, and then the parademons showed up


Fallen Rib

Is there a history of Nick Fury Jr? Did they give him much of a backstory or did he just appear because of the movie?

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





Madkal posted:

Is there a history of Nick Fury Jr? Did they give him much of a backstory or did he just appear because of the movie?

He just appeared because of the movie. His name isn't even really Nick Fury.

Avengers was coming out out so there was the terrible Battle Scars series spinning out of Fear Itself at the same time. In it Marcus Johnson finds out that he's the long lost son of Nick Fury and because of this has the infinity formula in his blood which bad guys want. With the help of his best friend Cheese they stop the bad guys but he loses his eye in the process. And then they become agents of SHIELD cause they are so cool. Also despite being 30/40 something his birth cert actually says Nick Fury Jr. so he decides to from now on go by Nick Fury.

Also his best friend who has been referred to as Cheese is actual Coulson.

And despite being a SHIELD agent for a day fills the Fury role in every book afterwards.

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TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

^^ poo poo, beat me to the punch.

Madkal posted:

Is there a history of Nick Fury Jr? Did they give him much of a backstory or did he just appear because of the movie?

Oh there is, and it is stupider than you could think of.

The best part is, despite going by the name "Marcus" for roughly 30 years of his life, he decides to just start going by Nick Fury after somebody shows him his birth certificate. Like... who does that? I know people change their names all the time, but it's just so out of the blue to decide "Yeah I will go by my deadbeat spy dad's name"

TwoPair fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Mar 4, 2014

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