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Gavok posted:I'm working on a list of all the different incarnations of the Civil War storyline. Here's what I've come up with: Frontline, maybe? Unless you count that as part of "Civil War proper".
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Apr 28, 2016 00:02
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Mover posted:And I guess that last wasteland too, if it's anything specific. Having just read it, pretty sure that's a shot of the Cancerverse from the Realm of Kings one-shot, since Quasar's the one who visits it.
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May 6, 2016 15:27
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Aphrodite posted:Just replace the forum title with that picture, it is a perfect representation of this place. Nobody in this forum has ever even touched a boob, let alone possesses a pair.
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May 8, 2016 20:39
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Gaz-L posted:Hey, we have in excess of 1 girl, since they passed the Federal Nerd Equality Act in 2012. Oh really? Oh jeez I ruined my chances with her  Ghostlight posted:Slanderous. Most of them do it accidentally while putting their shirt on in the morning. Waitin' for that one. I set em up, Ghostlight...
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May 8, 2016 21:00
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SonicRulez posted:
This is a weird outlier answer, and basically only exists because Marvel wrote themselves any possible out, but there's basically no way to bring back Gwen-616 in a way that doesn't reek of total bullshit. Like, Gwen Stacy Is Dead is now an immutable fact of the Marvel universe because that's the only way Spider-Gwen works, and considering her book sales she's not leaving any time soon. Previously I would've said that there were and have been ways to retcon her back into existence, but as soon as Spider-Gwen got invented...nope. She's dead now. Dead as Uncle Ben.
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May 15, 2016 22:25
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If I remember correctly, his healing factor wasn't an original part of his powers, so he could ostensibly die just the same as anybody else. It's also why this panel is so famous, because it wasn't certain whether or not wolverine actually died from the plunge before it popped at the end of the issue, and he could have very easily done so (and it's also where Wolverine basically got his reputation for being a huge badass): 
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May 16, 2016 05:29
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CzarChasm posted:Never even heard of this before. So they just went and updated all the classic Spider-man stories because...It's easier than writing new stories? It would be a jumping on point for new readers? Computers didn't exist in the original stories and those are a key element to his origin? Couple of pages back, but it's the second one. Marvel realized that a big advantage DC had at the time was providing easy jumping on points to their comics because things reset so often and that the concept of Legacy as a creative focus meant that superhero titles were mantles that could be passed down, with attendant rewritten origin stories. In contrast, Marvel's universe is constantly progressive and ostensibly speaking, even now the Peter Parker from 1962 is the same one who exists in 2016, so at the time Marvel figured that the best way to grab new readers was by trying to sorta, kinda, sorta maybe reboot the character but not really. Hence: Chapter One, the softest of soft reboots that was just rewritten original stories with changes that missed the point entirely or tried very hard to stress how "current" the comic now was that made it, ironically, look super dated especially looking back. Like, the absolute best way to compare how pointless Chapter One was is just by comparing the cover of its first issue to Amazing Fantasy #15   "Though the world may mock Peter Parker, the timid teenager...it will soon marvel at the awesome might of Spider-Man!" is some hilariously melodramatic dialog, but it makes you pumped to read the loving comic. It's got that over-the-top goofiness and bravado that makes you want to read more, especially over "Everybody laughs at the loser, Peter Parker -- but no one'll be laughing at the Amazing Spider-Man!", which is basically the exact same dialog just written less cleverly (why use laugh twice over what Lee does by having both verbs be different in "mock" and "marvel"?) And then there's the fact that Byrne's art looks worse than art drawn forty years prior. I mean, sure, that's partially unfair because it's Kirby but that's more the point. If you emulate one of the most iconic covers ever then the fact that Spider-Man's left arm placement makes the web he's swinging on not make sense even by the loose physics established in comic books or just how the whole image in Chapter One just looks lifeless in comparison to AF 15's real sense of movement, it makes the entire venture look like a bad copy of some of the most beloved comics in history. Which is exactly what it was, a lifeless and bad imitation of what came before that was changed just for the sake of changing it. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 06:13 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 05:56
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Yeah, that's always the part that pisses me off the most about that dumb loving cover. The left arm placement is by-far the most significant change Byrne makes, and it makes it so Spidey's about to swing into the ground at full speed. Seriously, it's a pointless change that only serves to make the cover make no loving sense any more.
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May 16, 2016 06:27
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The easiest summation of Superboy-Prime is that he's a Superman from our universe, our earth, where all comic book characters are simply comic book characters. Since he's quite literally the audience stand-in character in its purest form, the writers often would write him as the fanbase, leading up to Infinite Crisis where he, having been sent to a pocket dimension (essentially heaven) from Crisis on Infinite Earths, gets all angry at what the superheroes are doing in what he considers to be wrong or immoral behavior (behavior he enabled via his sacrifice at the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths). Then he becomes Evil. Basically Superboy-Prime is the thinnest possible metaphor - not even a metaphor, really - of what DC considers to be "bad fans". It's a confused criticism because Superboy is set up as a guy who dislikes the "darkening" of heroes in stuff like Identity Crisis, but he's also really violent and a murderer so he's a hypocrite? Maybe it's a repudiation of the same (DC agreeing with his criticism that superheroes should be more heroic), considering that he's explicitly a villain who ends up murdering a bunch of people, including beating Golden Age Superman to death with his bare hands? It's hard to say, really. I think Superboy-Prime is an interesting character in the sense that any superhero that exists by viewing from the outside of the fourth wall looking in is an interesting hero (the recently introduced Gwenpool is that, for instance, on Marvel's end), but it's all sort of cheapened because it becomes DC sort of setting up a strawman of what they perceive criticism to be. It not only comes across as childish and petty, but as outright disingenuous because none of Superboy-Prime's character beats are consistent to his character. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 22:35 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 22:33
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qntm posted:Alright, I have to ask, in that famous Ali vs. Superman issue, who, if anybody, actually wins the boxing match? Superman takes a dive, if I remember correctly. Or it was like...a clone or impersonation thing? Either way, Ali wins, but it's not 'clean'.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:16
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Wait, are you seriously saying a video game prequel comic is good?
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Jun 5, 2016 22:30
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Doesn't it have as a plot point Superman killing his pregnant wife, which blows up Metropolis in the process, then going off to kill the Joker? I'm just being clear here - this is that comic, right?
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Jun 5, 2016 22:39
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There's actually a whole bit with Batman how he, personally, has devised countermeasures to disable every single member of the Justice League just in case like, they all decide to turn evil against him or something. I'm kind of surprised that there's never been a plotline about that, if I'm being honest. Batman v the JL.
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Jun 8, 2016 03:09
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Gaz-L posted:I'm honestly unsure if you're joking, but it was. Like it's one of the more well-known Justice League stories, by Mark Waid. Wait really? Huh. Guess I should give that a read, then.
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Jun 8, 2016 03:14
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To me I only consider Cap, Thor, and Iron Man must-haves, and beyond that the whole point of the Avengers is that the status of the team is constantly in flux. It's not like the Justice League where they'll just add new members but consider the "founding members" most important, to me the whole point of the Avengers is that team compositions are very fluid and prone to change (obviously reflective of which heroes they are or aren't willing to push, but yeah, to me the thematic counterpoint to JL is that the Avengers isn't a "membership for life" deal over just one job among many.
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Jun 12, 2016 17:50
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It's why I also don't really consider the other Avengers teams "lesser" (I mean, practically speaking they are, but I mean in-universe their jobs are just as important and crucial as whatever the main Avengers are doing). Because I view the Avengers less as a title with associated prestige and more of a job (and people change jobs all the time in the real world), the other Avengers teams are just there to address various issues that the main Avengers can't. Unlike the Teen/Titans, JLA, LOSH, Young Justice, etc - various B-teams that desperately want to be Justice Leaguers - across the pond, the differentiations in names are, to me, more reflective of their functions. So New Avengers are greener and deal with more ethically murky ideas that the main Avengers can't due to being the first line of defense, Secret Avengers get even grayer to the point of black ops poo poo, Uncanny has a lot of mutants on it and usually deals with mutant issues. Young Avengers deal with coming-of-age problems that are metatextualized as threats adults can't or won't see. That even extends to the teams that don't have the Avengers branding but mine as well be Avengers teams - Alpha Flight is basically the Space Avengers and A-Force usually addresses the fallout of SW 2015, reflecting their origins.
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Jun 12, 2016 18:02
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Well the whole point of Hickman's run on Avengers was that Tony Stark convinces Steve Rogers to vastly expand the scope of the Avengers. Even when, yeah, the Avengers is literally dozens of people - and the idea of the Builder War is that they end up liberating all these planets who, in turn, become Avengers themselves, so eventually the Avengers number in the thousands - the whole concept of it was that it was this temporary conscription of people to handle a universal threat. Again, like a job.
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Jun 12, 2016 19:43
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Journey into Misery is very close thematically to Jay and Miles, and the male host of it makes an explicit point of not covering x-men characters or storylines so he doesn't chomp on their style.
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Jun 13, 2016 22:22
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The longest/most convoluted/worst characters and events (Grant Morrison Batman, The Flash, Hickman's run from Fantastic Four to Secret Wars, Identity Crisis, Hawkman) are the best episodes. Anything that makes Helena freak out or react super confusedly because dumb as gently caress comics bullshit is the best.
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Jun 13, 2016 23:04
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Oh jeez they associate themselves with a goon? Willingly?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:49
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Silk, Ms. Marvel, Damian Wayne, Ultimate Spider-Man, Miles Morales, Bluebird, Young Loki, Gwenpool, The Maker, Singularity (from A-Force)
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Jun 15, 2016 03:40
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Would FosThor or Spider-Gwen, two people who had previously never been a superhero becoming superheroes count? Because then both of those. Also all the Runaways and Phyla-Vell.
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Jun 15, 2016 04:03
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Skwirl posted:Hit Girl is a pretty great character regardless of your opinion on Kick-rear end as a whole. This will need some justification. Popular, sure. But qualitatively good? Uh.
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Jun 15, 2016 04:52
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I vastly prefer Marvel's default font to DC's, though, to be honest.
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Jun 16, 2016 03:50
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Here's my question, since another thread brought it up: What was the first issue that did the recap page and is there some sort of interview or oral history of who at Marvel came up with the idea and for what reason? Because it's such an obvious idea it's kind of difficult to believe they haven't always been around, even though they're, what, an invention only implemented this century as far as I can tell? Also, totally unrelated question: If we consider themes of comics decades like the 60s being the True Silver Age and the rise of Marvel, the 70s being the death of The Silver Age (along with Gwen Stacy) and the rushing in of politically/socially conscious comics on the back of the Bronze Age, the 80s being the invention of the event crossover and the line-wide reboot with Secret Wars and Crisis respectively while also inventing the "truly dark" commentary comic like TDKR, Killing Joke, Watchmen, and Death in the Family, and the 90s being...well, the loving 90s with creator-owned comics, artist-driven comics, the collector market, events that CHANGED EVERYTHING like Death of Superman, Electric Blue Era, Knightfall, Clone Saga, and the near-collapse of the industry, what do you think the 00s "themes" are? The 2010s? NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 05:18
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I'm really loving USG's approach to it with a twitter timeline but I'm already worried it'll look hilariously dated like those old Apple OS-rear end looking recap pages for US-M.
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Jun 17, 2016 06:38
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Journey Into Misery is kinda sorta what you're looking for. Or, rather, it's the closest thing I can think of to a generalized "history of comics". The Darkseid episode especially is Chris Sims basically explaining the entire history of the character and Kirby's motivations when creating him.
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Jun 19, 2016 00:55
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Here's the best Dr. Doom story. I'm about to objectively prove what the best Dr. Doom story is. It's the story that ends with this: 
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Jun 21, 2016 04:52
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It's incredibly bad and doesn't even do the job it was created to do. It's literally the only SW mini I've seen explicitly recommended that people not read.
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Jun 21, 2016 05:02
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CapnAndy posted:I liked seeing the old Ultimate trade dressing one more time, at least? Actually Ultimate End 1 being literally USM 1 with Miles subbed in for Peter and the whole background on fire is one of the better cover designs of all time. Go with god I guess Retro Futurist. As far as I'm aware it doesn't spoil literally anything about the SW event, and just like every other SW tie-in ever (outside of Old Man Logan) can be read in-between issues 6 and 7 of SW proper. I guess if you're going into SW SUPER BLIND you will be spoiled on the nature of Battleworld and how it works, but again that's not...really a spoiler so much as the inherent premise of the series.
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Jun 21, 2016 05:18
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It's really crazy that Ultimate End wasn't literally "Bendis and Bagley show the 1610 side of The Final Incursion" since that's a premise that, one, writes itself, and two was more or less completely ignored by Hickman in Avengers, New Avengers, or SW proper. Like how do you gently caress that layup up that hard.
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Jun 21, 2016 05:26
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CapnAndy posted:Or the entire issue that's alternative meanings for the W.H.I.S.P.E.R. acronym, or Squirrel Girl's URL powers, or "Thunderbolt Ross thinks he's kind of heavy-handed", or how Tippy-Toe also has squirrel powers because she's a literal squirrel, or... What issue is that, I don't remember at all.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:20
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That sounds fuckin sweet as hell.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:47
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Kate totally and completely had an unrequited crush on Clint (like it could not have been more thoroughly telegraphed) to the point where she storms off and leaves for California in large part because she realizes how much of a piece of poo poo he is in the whole "honesty" department combined with the realization that he'd never actually go for her. For his part Clint, being a piece of poo poo (especially as relates to women, especially women who are love interests and, more importantly, become emotionally close to him) spends the majority of the comic telling himself not to gently caress the easily emotionally manipulable teenaged girl who already had an enormous crush on him because he's her mentor and also, you know, gross. But the tension was very clearly there. The whole point of Fraction's run is built on the idea that Clint and Kate are very good friends/confidantes who happen to be attracted to each other (Clint on more of a physical level, Kate on more of an emotional level) and how they're both uniquely broken so that they end up with fantastic chemistry but under no circumstances ever ever ever should date. So I can sorta see, if one completely ignores the central theme of Fraction's Hawkeye, how one could argue that Clint and Kate should date. Except for, you know, all the parts of the run that strongly emphasize how awful they'd be together. I think this is more thoroughly reinforced by who Kate ends up dating in Gillen's YA - Noh-Varr is basically Clint Barton but not in a weird mentorship role over Kate and actually her age. And guess what, she ends up dumping his rear end by the end because Noh-Varr's a total piece of poo poo who goes through women like tissue paper and ends up choosing another woman over her. Hmm. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 07:20
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Isn't Guy Gardner's whole bit that he's just A Dude? Like, he's not super great and not super lovely intentionally, because it's a story about what would happen if some ordinary Joe got phenomenal cosmic power for no specific reason, just pure luck?
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Jul 2, 2016 00:00
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Barry gets hated on not because he's the worst Flash, but for a myriad of different reasons mostly dealing with how he's the cause of Flashpoint and therefore the New 52, so a bunch of people half-jokingly to utterly seriously point fingers at him as the cause of a line-wide hard reboot that's widely considered one of the worst creative periods in DC history. This is compounded by the fact that he got written out like a complete and utter champ saving the multiverse in Crisis on Infinite Earths, one of if not the most influential single story that DC has ever done (and one of the most influential and important comics ever made). Then he was revived because Geoff Johns really liked the character, displacing Wally West (who had been Flash for decades at this point) and then Flashpoint happened which ended up removing Wally from continuity permanently until Rebirth. Also Barry comes off as a really dumb idiot in Flashpoint considering how much loving with time has deleterious effects on the timestream and is, indeed, something Flash villains often do, so Barry doing it because he's just so darn sad his Mom is dead when he's been in and around the Speedforce for as long as he has makes him look like a chump. So it's basically a combination of three things: He got a great death (arguably the greatest in DC comics history) then was revived due to creative desire over necessity, replaced a better character because a creative nobody likes any more had nostalgia for him and in the process ended up marginalizing and then removing from history that better character, and because he was the cause of an event that eventually caused some of the worst comics DC has ever written to be made. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 00:09
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The best way to describe Crisis is as a direct response to Secret Wars. Secret Wars was a way to sell toys combined with Shooter's dislike of certain parts of certain books' creative direction (most famously Colossus dating Kitty Pryde since that was creepy as all hell), so it - which invented the line-wide crossover event, basically - ended up changing around certain books' status quos but also was a bare excuse to have all the heroes punching each other in new outfits. So it's a relatively simple story that can be most adequately described as "a reason to smash a bunch of action figures together and have everyone go all out without worrying about collateral damage". Certain books' statuses changed - like, Ben Grimm was stuck on Battleworld for a while, for instance, so wasn't on the Fantastic Four - but it wasn't some earth-shaking event that CHANGED EVERYTHING. DC saw all that and decided to top it, on top of their view that Marvel was successful in a way that DC wasn't because they had one continuity that everything happened within. It's debatable whether or not that's true, but DC used CoIE primarily as a way to reset their continuity and have it make more sense with less multiversal stuff, multiple Flashes/Supermen/etc running around, etc etc. So they told this convoluted and insane and really sort of completely nonsensical story with the Monitor and Anti-Monitor and all Earths being in danger and so on and so on because everything was at stake. But really, it was smashing a bunch of action figures together as continuity got reset, rewritten, or retconned. And that's sort of the way Marvel and DC have approached events from then on. Look at the number of Marvel line-wide crossover events that have the word "Secret" or "War" in their title, and then look at the number of DC-wide crossover events that have the word "Crisis" in theirs. The biggest irony is that Secret Wars 2015, as a direct callback to the first-ever line-wide crossover event, the one that invented them all, is basically Crisis on Earths 1610 and 616. And yet so far, the fallout has been the same as it was back in 1985 - the books resumed with some changed statuses but that's more or less it. If you're interested Chris Sims wrote an excellent article on Crisis and its more deleterious effects on the DCU, which is often linked, here. There's also a followup where Chris runs down all the Issues he has with Crisis here. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 02:42
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Teenage Fansub posted:If they have to compete, I find COIE so much more interesting than the original Secret Wars. Well, obviously. Secret Wars was a way to sell toys. Crisis was DC literally playing 52 card pickup with their entire lineup of comics.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:59
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Teenage Fansub posted:Not to mention... That is an ATROCIOUS cover. Is Barbara Gordon part owl?
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Aug 4, 2016 03:50
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Panel three of that page is the most DC-rear end male gaze-rear end bullshit I've seen in a long loving while.
NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 06:28
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