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Do they publish these sale numbers somewhere?
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Jul 15, 2016 21:29
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In regards to that Harley/Ivy thing, I think ya'll are being really unfair here. Nobody here gets to speak for all LGBT people. You guys said it yourself that there's no hivemind. But dismissing that some bi girls liked their representation as a fluke is pretty disingenuous. The dynamic of their relationship is fine, it just needs more context. DC needs to show different types of lesbian relationships to prove that they don't think all lesbians act like Harley and Ivy. I'd point to Kate and Maggie as a perfect example but DC hosed that up and caused the good creative team to leave, which is the actual evidence of them doing something wrong. I don't think DC is anti-gay or anything, I just think they have trouble showing more than one kind of relationship. That seems more their problem. The new Superman seems to be changing my opinion on even that, though.
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Aug 26, 2016 20:14
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Squizzle posted:Re: H/I: Unlike the other response to me, this one actually read what I wrote and responded in a way that I don't feel I'm wasting my time. Thank you for that. I think the big problem is that people backlash against overt sexualization as an inherently immature thing since it's so often erroneously labeled as a mature thing. But the truth is that sexuality is neither mature nor immature by its own virtue, and it's the execution and context that matters. In the instance of that page that was posted, I honestly don't think the problem is as bad as people are saying. The problem only exists in that is DC's only portrayal of a lesbian romance right now (or at least their only high profile one). Given context with other types of lesbian relationships there's no problem at all. That just becomes "one couple's dynamic" instead of "how all lesbians act". e: I also want to point out that anybody who calls bisexuality fetishistic is pretty gross to me. Don't belittle a group already facing erasure even from other LGBT peoples. That's hosed up.
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Aug 26, 2016 22:21
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) can have different ethical character.
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Rhyno posted:Right so not a lesbian then. Because being bisexual is more attractive to men.
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Aug 26, 2016 22:51
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Toxxupation posted:Yeah? The whole point is that Rhyno's externalizing DC's thought processes that went into writing the Ivy/Harley relationship, which are almost certainly true especially considering how the Ivy/Harley relationship has been written and portrayed since. Like...we've been saying this whole time? Except that it's not? The representation seems fine. She's not engaging in any threesomes (to my knowledge) that would validate that line of thinking. She just happens to be okay with both and that's a part of who she is.
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Aug 26, 2016 22:59
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WickedHate posted:Are you like, autistic? Oh. Now I get why people don't like you.
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Aug 26, 2016 23:18
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WickedHate posted:As an autistic person myself I ask out of a legitimate desire to understand your position. My position is that a perfectly acceptable representation of an underrepresented subset of people should not be reacted to with such negativity. It's fine to not like this couple but all I see here is people not liking it and deciding that it's somehow because the representation is wrong. Sometimes different people have different approaches to sexuality and a different approach like this shouldn't be shut down when it's represented in fiction. The fact that they're both conventionally attractive females might be something to take issue with if you want to argue against this but this is comics so that ship sailed long ago. More representation is what we should be asking for. Not less of it. And asking someone if they're autistic out of the blue like that is never going to not be seen as some sort of "hardcore internet badass putdown" so maybe keep that in mind in the future if you're being sincere.
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Aug 26, 2016 23:25
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WickedHate posted:Yeah, I don't like the pairing myself but the argument is like, for it to be better, not eliminated, though either way more of representation regardless of if it's good or bad representation isn't a great philosophy. There's totally such a thing as bad publicity, and as a trans girl I'm not super thrilled about the most famous fictional transsexual being a serial killer that wore women's skin. I see where you're coming from in that regard, and I agree that there can be some seriously negative repercussions to the public getting the wrong idea about someone through poor media representation. But I think the solution isn't to cut down on the representation of the bad but to show that it's only a part of a much wider spectrum of people. Otherwise you tend to paint a picture that this group of people is all sunshine and roses or whatever tumblr thinks being trans makes them more cool instead of just being a thing some people are.
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Aug 26, 2016 23:39
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:17 |
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Toxxupation posted:This is the point you're not getting. Nobody besides you thinks the representation is good, and a flat declarative statement that it is - when I could pull any one of a half-dozen images that illustrate Harley and Ivy together in the porniest way possible, including the image that started this whole thing - doesn't invalidate that. You're, at this point, deliberately misinterpreting what other people are saying because you assume that the LGBT community is under attack when it's all been criticism of DC, the comics company that, amongst other things, have portrayed Harley as a sex doll for the past half-decade and turned Batwoman into a mind-controlled rape victim. Except you're the one who is unable to understand what I'm saying. Specifically said image looked okay to me. In a comic book for kids, absolutely not, but I don't know of any kids who would be reading that comic anyway. Not the best but not nearly so bad as something to go crazy over like you are. I'd agree that maybe it could be improved a bit but you in particular are absolutely overreacting to the situation and that's why I felt the need to chime in. I don't think DC is doing that hot recently and I'm not trying to defend them as a company. You pretending I am is weird. I've just seen no evidence that the current portrayal of Ivy and Harley's relationship is particularly damaging to any representation. I already mentioned how Batwoman was the example of a good relationship on the other end of the spectrum, which was crushed by horrible editing decisions. That was absolutely a better and more interesting relationship to read in my opinion and the editorial staff decided to shut it down for no good reason. That upset me and I have a problem with DC because of that. I'm not fighting some one-person crusade in defense of LGBT issues. I don't think that's necessary. I think there are other good representations out there anyways. You're drawing conclusions that I'm somehow unaware of that and making points that I'm not. I'm specifically calling this one pretty okay and asking for more varied relationships to better contextualize it.
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Aug 26, 2016 23:49
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