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Pick posted:Stinz is probably the right place to start, and possibly the right place to stop depending on your sensibilities. Hader and the Colonel is adorable if you can get over the harpy inexplicably being dressed as a Nazi. I mean, "inexplicable" beyond that it's Barr and she loves to draw Nazis. Yeah, if you don't think you can handle comics about Germans during WW2, where everyone is in uniform, Stinz is what you should limit yourself to. If you're like me and a glutton for punishment, The Desert Peach is surprisingly good, once you get over the fact it's MASH but with gay Nazis.
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Mar 5, 2014 02:48
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They really wanted us out of the bad webcomics thread, I guess.
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Mar 5, 2014 03:00
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Pick posted:Yeah, the horse was definitely Hitler. That's Our Donna! <laugh track> No, seriously, this is possibly the only thread this makes some kind of sense in. painted bird fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 16:20
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I just woke up and my first thought upon reading this thread: is there a single person in the goon Donna Barr Appreciation Society that's straight? Because if not, that'd be pretty funny.Pick posted:Not just some sense, that's like the most Donna Barr thing imaginable. The very essence of horse-Nazi amalgamation. Yeah, it really is.  This is part of the reason I can't look away.I'm currently reading the chapter where the Peach and Udo are in England, disguised as women. Is Udo Jewish? Because he's pretty adamant he's not.
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Mar 5, 2014 16:28
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Donna Barr is a wee bit fetishing when it comes to queer men, which is why I was initially suspicious. Also, my standards are pretty high, but I'm a gay, a poor, can't walk and have brain problems and I don't like people who don't think I deserve to live happily and on my own terms.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:48
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I hate to be That Guy, but Stinz is completely Nazi-free and also not a fetish comic and The Desert Peach has a grand total of two sex scenes, is also not a fetish comic and depicts Nazis negatively. I'm not arguing it's not heavily whitewashing the Wehrmacht and that it isn't a questionable work, but the stuff she's best known for wasn't strictly speaking Nazi comics and didn't give off a fetish-y vibe at all. She's still definitely beyond the bounds of reason or good taste, but come on. If we're gonna snigger at Donna Barr, let's snigger at her for reasons that make sense and not some poo poo we made up.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:12
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If you can't distinguish between a sexy pin-up the author drew and the main body of work, I don't know what to tell you.  I'm not even denying that she's perpetuating the myth of a "clean Wehrmacht" and that at a glance, The Desert Peach looks really loving questionable (and at a deeper reading all I can ask is "why would you make this your life's work") but it's only barely Nazi and definitely not fetish-y, except that one issue, which has a gay sex scene that is the yaoiest loving thing.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:24
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The question is, why is someone with a uniform fetish (who is not, as shown by anyone who's read anything political she writes, a Nazi, just kind of misguided in some ways[1]) any more embarrassing than many of the male luminaries of comics? Or other art forms? Do you also support cold-shouldering Quentin Tarantino, because of his obvious foot fetish, that he crams into every movie? I don't deny she's a weirdo at all, but honestly, if we were to exclude comic creators from things because they're weird, we'd be left with the guy who does the Family Circle and no one else. [1] the swastika reclamation thing (the sort of swastika that she has tattooed on her wrist is the sort that people who are trying to de-Nazify the swastika use), the "honorary Queer" thing, the clean Wehrmacht thing in The Desert Peach. EDIT: I'm not even touching Afterdead, because that is not a thing I want to touch. Afterdead is where I start suspecting Donna Barr no longer has a filter or an internal editor and is just doing whatever the hell she likes, no matter how preposterous. But that sort of behaviour doesn't stop people singing the praises of John K., so what gives? painted bird fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 23:00
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IronicDongz posted:I think that the original point being made was that that's why she isn't in that one documentary about women in the comics industry, and if they were trying to show positive examples of women in a medium that often ignores them I can totally understand leaving out that weird lady who draws tons of gay nazis? I guess, though I also see Pick's point: she's an indie creator whose work is completely out there and off-beat and she had the double burden of being a woman in comics and someone who was telling stories the comics industry didn't consider worthy of publishing. I'm just kinda sick of people trying to convince me how perverted and awful Barr is, both in the GBS thread and here. I know, okay. I know. Meanwhile, nerds love all sorts of men way more questionable than Barr is and they never even begin to admit those people have flaws, and that is starting to grate on me.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:10
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Pick posted:I wouldn't mind as much except over and over it's people admitting that they haven't read it. Frankly, with all the people trying to tell us we're literally Nazi fetishists, etc., I'm amazed the six or so of us haven't gotten avatars bought for us. Though I suppose given crowfeathers's/corn in the bible's avatar, it's pretty clear none of us would mind that much. 
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Mar 6, 2014 01:40
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Yeah, just for the record: I'm a gay Russian, I'm disabled both physically and in the "I'm broken in the head" way and I'm an avowed leftist and always have been. I do not have a Nazi fetish. I just think Barr's work is really fascinating in a way you don't see often. The Desert Peach and Stinz are bizarre, but still comprehensible, which is a very rare combination.
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Mar 6, 2014 01:50
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I was mostly talking about the GBS thread, where people were way more rabid about us enjoying a weird lady's work in a semi-unironic fashion. I don't actually think we're being persecuted, I'm just sick of the criticisms being the same old "it's a Nazi fetish comic! I didn't read it but it totally is!" poo poo. Come up with something new, sheesh. ALL-PRO SEXMAN actually had a point and I concede to his criticism of The DesertPeach being at best, rude and ahistorical.
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Mar 6, 2014 01:55
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I mean, I definitely know less than Barr when it comes to the 1940s and the Wehrmacht, but I do have a decent, by laymen's standards, knowledge of the war in general, though mostly about Operation Barbarossa/the Great Patriotic War and not about the Africa Korps. (Get back to me when I'm doing grad work, provided I ever manage to get a Bachelor's in history/anthropology in the first place. WW2 was a teenage obsession of mine.) But you're right. I'm not comfortable saying Barr has no right to write the poo poo she does, especially since she has put way more research into the topic than most people would put into anything they write. But I'm also not going to not have reservations about something like The Desert Peach. But on the other hand, you have all this and facehorses, too. Of course I'm fascinated.
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Mar 6, 2014 02:08
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corn in the bible posted:I just thought her comics were funny and weird and that other people should therefore see them. I did not intend for anyone to become enamored of it or for any of these other things to happen. Stinz is fun, but most of her other stuff skeeves me the gently caress off, to be honest. Too late, you're literally the Peach in my mind, now. But also, I can't really be skeeved out by something like Bosom Enemies or Afterdead. Horses with human faces? Half-horse, half-men beasts of burden? I just find that poo poo hilarious, even if it is at least partially sexual to the creator or some of the audience. 
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Mar 6, 2014 02:14
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:I would not like to explain to any of my German friends why I have Afterdead and her blogs/dA bookmarked. Though my disappointingly poor taste should not come as a shock to them anymore. You think you have it bad. The man I'm marrying is German. His uncle was the one who took us around to see the sights when we visited Munich, which means he showed us Hebertshausen (that's where they executed Soviet POWs) and we went to the Dachau memorial. No one can ever know I read this poo poo.  sweeperbravo posted:It's really weird, because I normally have a kneejerk aversion to anything to do with Nazi Germany, to the point where I really can't enjoy even the most U.S. centric WWII documentaries/POV stories without kind of wanting to get up and leave (making it through Band of Brothers was difficult as I kept just waiting for the inevitable depiction of a concentration camp and my own unstoppable tears to click on). But there is something so deranged, dedicated, bizarre about her art that I really, really am curious about reading more. I actually visited the Dachau memorial twice. The first time I got so upset that I couldn't make it the way way through and we left having seen about 3/4s. I sat in the car, on the way back, just totally dead inside. I couldn't even begin to process what I now knew, even though I'd studied this poo poo in school. The second time, I think I got through two rooms before I had to ask to leave, because I couldn't handle it emotionally. And yet, Donna Barr's work doesn't really bother me on that level. It's weird. I'm weird. But you're not alone, SB, either in your reactions to WW2 or your reactions to Barr!  Pick posted:Bosom Enemies goes even further off the rails than you'd think. Also, there's an absolute massive proportion of it dedicated to condemning the treatment of the Native Americans by, uh, white horses kind of? This seems to have become one of her pet issues and it shows up in her other work on occasion. She lives on the Olympic peninsula, where there is still a conspicuous presence of Native Americans so that might have contributed. Huh. I mean, I can't really imagine how much further off the rails it could've gone, but I can't lie and say I'm not curious.
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Mar 6, 2014 02:26
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It was more than I could ever dream of.
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That honestly sounds like a fever dream. Scratch that, I've had medication-induced dreams that were more coherent than that.
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Mar 6, 2014 02:55
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That is gibberish, but assuming the best: I'm from the Urals, originally, but I currently live in Europe and have since I was 10. I have a Russian passport and know some old propaganda songs.
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Mar 6, 2014 03:20
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Pick posted:Afterdead has some depressing flashbacks too. In case you dared think that Udo got to die happily, after Pfirsch dies he dehydrates to death under an overpass. Pfirsch seems the right amounts of old-fashioned to want to get engaged and Rosen seems the right amounts of "would be a masc, str8-acting dudebro who totally wants to act like everything is the same as had he been with a girl" to actually propose.
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Mar 6, 2014 05:29
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Okay, wait, is Pfirsch rooming with Udo (who doesn't remember him) in Nazi Hell? And whatever happens to the gunbird that bonds to him? I'm so confused and not by the things I thought I'd be confused by. EDIT: Oh wait, there's the gunbird. Donna's art has rather gone to hell, so I couldn't tell. painted bird fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 07:00
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Neither do I and I'm sexually attracted to men. But sweat just smells.  EDIT: You know, I can dig Afterdead in concept. It'd be a fun personal project, to map out people's afterlives in a fairly bizarre realm. But Afterdead is a total mess and reads kind of like fanfiction for the things it follows. painted bird fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 07:03
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Right, right. But for some reason, Udo (who died relatively soon after Pfirsch) somehow did a 180 on his beloved old boss and now thinks he's an annoying tagalong?? Also, Pick, I now know what Barr Girls is and. You're in for. Something. Not horse-cock-induced death, at least, but Something for sure. (It's actually the comic that finally cinched my opinion of Barr as someone who has absolutely no understanding of the word "implications".)
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Mar 6, 2014 07:18
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Oh. Oh. All right, that makes sense. As much as anything in Afterdead. The gunbirds are adorable, though. I'd like one. 
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Mar 6, 2014 07:21
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Pick posted:Udo needs the gun to protect the roller derby girls from the earlier chapter, since he is their manager. Everyone thinks this is silly since they can take care of themselves. He's using the name Isador because that's his real name (his Jewish name, mentioned in DP). Actually, it's only the pink gunbirds that bond only when rescued: all others bond on first touch. At least that's what I gathered upon re-reading.
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Mar 6, 2014 07:46
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I only read the latest chapter, got incredibly confused and totally gave up. Maybe I'll tackle it later. But no, it doesn't actually make that much more sense in context.
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Mar 6, 2014 07:52
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Protip: don't try to explain the plot of The Desert Peach #8 to your very much German boyfriend. Four years together, and that's the first time he made the "what the gently caress is this" face at me. 
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Mar 6, 2014 08:18
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Captain Candyblood posted:I started reading through Stinz and I'm unironically enjoying it. It's pretty charming, in its own way! I'm only up to the sixth issue or so and there hasn't been anything weird so far besides the pheromones thing. Which makes me curious to see how Barr's stories went from "old-timey centaur farmers in Germany" to "Nazis and time travel in hell" over the years... The Desert Peach is the transitional period, from "kooky but great" to "kooky but questionable but still pretty good" to "WHAT THE gently caress DONNA". And yeah, her art has really gone downhill. It's a pity, at her peak, she was great.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:35
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sweeperbravo posted:Can you post a sample that demonstrates this? I'm interested but truly can't keep track of what comes after what. Sure! Here's a page from The Desert Peach #19, 1992:  Here's a page from the most recent Afterdead issue, probably around the 2010s:  The first one isn't her best work by far, but it's clear, comprehensible and features a variety of compositions. The second is ... a mess. Also: facehorses.
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Mar 6, 2014 22:47
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I want to know, too, because TJ and Amal is like one of very few gay romance comics I know that did not make me feel like a weird fetish object. I really like the page number gimmicks in Barr's work, too.  They're pretty charming. There's a lot in her art that's really, really good, which is what makes the weird poo poo stand out like this. If she were totally crap, none of us would be here, etc.
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Mar 7, 2014 13:08
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Yours is p. good, too! But I told you that, already. But seriously, the majority of slash makes me feel really grody. Not that porn by gay men is any better, because that assumes I like monster cocks. There's just no winning with porn.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:45
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As far as I remember, Barr's work falls into "historical fiction, depicts Nazis in a negative light, therefore okay", so you're fine reading it. The ban on Nazi imagery is mostly a ban on waving it around at protest marches.
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Mar 8, 2014 01:33
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My boyfriend mentioned that swastikas were censored in superhero comics he read as a kid (he's in his late 20s) but I think they might apply the law more stringently to "low" art like comics and videogames. Germany's censorship laws are pretty strict, even outside the Nazi thing.
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Mar 8, 2014 02:13
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Randler posted:The use of swastikas is a problem for the people who want to publish or make otherwise publically available the media that contains them. It's not a problem for the person browsing said media on the internet or buying those books. Though in the latter case they might not get those books through customs, effectively losing them. Whether Donna Barr depicts nazis in a positive or negative light is irrelevant when it comes to the usue of swastikas under German criminal law, by the way. (Technically, it might come into play when discussing whether the social adequacy exception would cover Barr's work, but that's not something that can be reasonably covered here.) Okay, cheers for the clarification! I'm neither German nor a lawyer. The facehorses don't stop looking any less weird the more they appear. Jesus Christ.
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Mar 8, 2014 03:46
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God drat, that second page.  What a gutpunch. I'd be curious to see what else you have sitting in boxes.
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Mar 10, 2014 13:00
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I think otters might be bitey? It's raccoons that are terrifying disease bags (they carry a parasite that, uh,  it's a worm that ends up living in human brains if it ends up in humans), bats might have rabies but not 100% always.Also, poo poo, if Donna Barr's got arthritis, I really feel for her. Connective tissue bullshit is hell, especially if you like to type or draw or do anything at all requiring finesse. It's really impressive she can draw so fast with no undersketches still, though.
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Apr 3, 2014 11:16
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:I have some kind of tremor that affects my hands and is related to some kind of neurodegenerative disorder, but which isn't rheumatoid arthritis (though apparently it is genetic so I have to look out for it anyway My fine motor control was the pits prior to illness, too, and I can always get around it by working digitally and zooming in really close and working slowly. Thankfully, for whatever bizarre reason, the way I hold pens and styli isn't nearly half as painful as, say, typing, so I can still draw with relative ease. Holding knives and forks is painful, but not pens. Weird, huh? My lower back and hip pain preventing sitting for long periods of time are way more detrimental, as is the fact I'm frequently feeling too fatigued and flu-y to do anything.  I'm hoping that either what I have is non-degenerative or if it is, the degeneration can be arrested quickly as soon as the rheumatologists detect the goddamn autoimmune markers that are steadily refusing to turn up on my bloodwork.  EDIT: I don't have tremors of any sort, but I do have nerve damage! In one arm for sure (and a gross scar following surgery to try and save the nerve) and probably in both feet. Barr Girls is not nearly as shocking or weird as I thought it'd be. Donna Barr throws off all my usual instincts for weird Internet poo poo, because everything she produces sounds like it'd be a complete disaster when you hear the pitch and then it turns out to be ... well, not only competently executed, but fairly hopeful and optimistic and life-affirming.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:02
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Well. That's one sort of endorsement.
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Jun 26, 2014 23:16
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