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glowing-fish posted:Is state politics, rather than local politics, the reason why Seattle has lagged so far behind Portland on building a good mass transit system? There was a 25 year lag in getting the first light rail line in Seattle, even though it is a bigger city than Portland. Unless the people voted in an income tax, funding mass transit with usage fees and consumption taxes is orthogonal, if not completely opposed; mass transit primarily benefits the public class that can't afford to fund it upfront. glowing-fish posted:Yes, there are counterexamples to Washington's solid-blue status. The 2004 governor's race was especially close, and I don't know why. Was Rossi a much better campaigner than Gregoire, or was it because Bush had coattails that year? Gregoire was a mostly empty suit that had some talents wrangling the Washington legislature but was otherwise so milquetoast that she's been exiled to NGO boardmember status after being passed up by the Obama administration that made Gary Locke her predecessor into a name.
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Mar 12, 2014 23:50
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OwlBot 2000 posted:There was a pro-Rajneeshi poster around here just a few months ago. I'm not even joking. The compound they built was eventually bought by a Christian group and turned into a summer camp. My sister worked there for awhile and I got to stay the night and get a tour of the place during the off season. The reason there was on off season tour was actually to show the place off to the locals. The people out there are so paranoid that they are suspicious of even an overtly Christian summer camp. And the place is seriously in the middle of nowhere. It has an airstrip, which isn't all that unusual for ranches out there. The cult upgraded it to handle small cargo planes, and the camp still maintains it because it is the only way to get people out for medical attention in a timely manner. It is hours of driving to get to a decent hospital. Beowulfs_Ghost fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 23:57
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:The compound they built was eventually bought by a Christian group and turned into a summer camp. My sister worked there for awhile and I got to stay the night and get a tour of the place during the off season. The reason there was on off season tour was actually to show the place off to the locals. The people out there are so paranoid that they are suspicious of even an overtly Christian summer camp. The cult only paid for outside goods in silver dollars so that the locals would know how much he was pumping into the economy. Theres a ghost town just outside of the site that I spent the night at during a trip. A bus full of kids from the camp broke down and I went from spooky ghost hotel to a loving funhouse of children that didn't like that I said the word "hell".
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Mar 13, 2014 00:05
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The-Mole posted:I dunno as much about Washington, but Oregon was a seriously racist place despite its geographical location. The KKK was huge here, a hundred years ago and the bigotry runs pretty deep in certain areas. Unfortunately, there is still some pretty loving deep bigotry left here. Hell, the racist language in the state constitution was only removed 5 or 10 years ago, iirc. Mmm I'd have to disagree here. Oregon has had its race issues, but they are largely overblown in popular imagination. Generally you'll find that Oregon has had a faddish approach to such things - passing short-lived laws that were never enacted or enforced. Provincial Oregon freed black slaves and banned slavery, and while it also ordered those blacks to leave the state that order was never enforced and was rescinded within a year. It later banned further black immigration, but that ban only lasted five years and it was sporadically enforced. Conservatives again tried to implement an exclusion law in the first State Constitution of 1857, but it was never enabled and was soon voided by the Civil War (although it stayed on the books until 1927 when it was repealed by popular vote). The KKK was popular in Oregon in the 1920s, but as a fraternal social organization and not as a vigilante group. When organizers began to advocate for the kind of violence and intimidation of the KKK in the South, public support evaporated and the klan fell apart. It's true that Oregon has historically been almost entirely white, but that has largely changed over the last 40 years with the advent of urbanization. Currently the white non-hispanic demographic constitutes 77% of the population - above the national average of 64% but a far cry from the lily-white NE states like Maine (94%), Vermont (94%) or New Hampshire (92%). Oregon is fairly diverse for a Northern state - states that are far away from the black and latino populations of the South - particularly one that has been largely rural for the majority of its existence. While Oregon has had a checkered racial history and it has a ways to go in terms of broadening its racial diversity, particularly outside the Willamette Valley corridor, the image of it as this silently racist state of whites is essentially a fiction. http://www.blackpast.org/perspectives/black-laws-oregon-1844-1857 http://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/entry/view/ku_klux_klan/ Kaal fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 01:21
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:The compound they built was eventually bought by a Christian group and turned into a summer camp. My sister worked there for awhile and I got to stay the night and get a tour of the place during the off season. The reason there was on off season tour was actually to show the place off to the locals. The people out there are so paranoid that they are suspicious of even an overtly Christian summer camp. Fun Oregon fact, only the land and the major buildings were bought for the summer camp. The rest of the buildings and facilities were bought by a variety of different entities, primarily Western Oregon University, which turned them into classrooms that permanently reek of cheap inscense.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:29
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Gerund posted:The cult only paid for outside goods in silver dollars so that the locals would know how much he was pumping into the economy. Oh man I recently learned about the Rajneeshpuram and they are endlessly fascinating. I didn't know about the silver dollars, but I did finally get what the Simpsons were referencing in the cult episode when everyone takes a break from bean picking to watch the Leader drive by. Rajneesh was famous for driving by all his followers in Rolls Royces. Also, the compound was named "Rancho Rajneesh," and I'm starting to think that's where the Simpsons got "Rancho Relaxo." Matt Groening showing off his Oregon heritage. If you want to learn more the Oregonian did an exhaustive look at what happened, http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/
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Mar 13, 2014 01:36
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Fragmented posted:Yeah I'm facing being another homeless 30 year old here in P-Town if I can't make something happen in a couple weeks and it will not be fun. At least its not Manhattan I guess. But yeah the shelter situation is horrible. At least we still have food stamps... Well good luck man, at least it has gotten a lot warmer recently and at least we seem beyond any frost. There isn't much advice to give about public services, but might be another attempt to setup a camp in front of city hall? quote:Woah woah woah, I haven't really paid attention to Eugenian politics since I moved away, please tell me more about how the hill-people are upset that there might be more busses. Well to be exact it is going to be expansion of the BRT (Buses with their own right away) route over to the West side, the big issue seems be that a bunch of auto shops are going to lose some parking/turf in front since they are going to expand the road. It is going to be a mess for a while, but BRT is already about as low cost as you can go beyond just not doing anything beyond more local buses. One thing about Oregon politics it is hard to pigeon hole it, there is plenty of deeply racist people in Oregon but it isn't necessary persuasive like the South. If anything Oregon's politics is so all over the politics you can always find something to hate. Portland is still a very liberal town especially for the United States, but much of its current government and its past clashes with its present. Oregon is sort of like dropping extra large version of Berkeley and a few college towns into West Virginia and then see how it works out.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:38
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Ardennes posted:
I think that's the best description of Oregon I've ever read. Edit: if West Virginia was also filled with jaw-dropping natural beauty.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:47
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Mojo Threepwood posted:Oh man I recently learned about the Rajneeshpuram and they are endlessly fascinating. I didn't know about the silver dollars, but I did finally get what the Simpsons were referencing in the cult episode when everyone takes a break from bean picking to watch the Leader drive by. Rajneesh was famous for driving by all his followers in Rolls Royces. Also, the compound was named "Rancho Rajneesh," and I'm starting to think that's where the Simpsons got "Rancho Relaxo." Matt Groening showing off his Oregon heritage. Most interesting fact I ever heard about the Rajneesh group is that ~25% of the people there were licensed therapists.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:59
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Mojo Threepwood posted:Oh man I recently learned about the Rajneeshpuram and they are endlessly fascinating. I didn't know about the silver dollars, but I did finally get what the Simpsons were referencing in the cult episode when everyone takes a break from bean picking to watch the Leader drive by. Rajneesh was famous for driving by all his followers in Rolls Royces. Also, the compound was named "Rancho Rajneesh," and I'm starting to think that's where the Simpsons got "Rancho Relaxo." Matt Groening showing off his Oregon heritage. Having never even heard of the story before, I have to say that it's kind of noteworthy that the journalist is hooraying when state lawmakers came out in droves to oppose an Indian mystic starting up a commune in rural Oregon, but doesn't blink an eye at the Protestant youth camp that replaced it. I mean I understand the conceptual difference between someone camping versus someone living there, but that Young Life camp hosts thousands of kids year-round and has most of the same amenities (airport, fire station, public schools, etc.). Where were the land-use regulators and state attorneys concerned about church-state separation when they started operating? Of course I suppose a foreign cult is an easier target than an American Christian youth ministry. Kaal fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 02:29
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Mojo Threepwood posted:Grocery stores that just added a liquor aisle and called it good are have severe shoplifting issues. This is REALLY true. I've seen this progression: 1) Open aisle with security caps on bottles 2) Some bottles now put in a locked case 3) Added a closed gate to one end of the aisle 4) Added a gate to the OTHER end, left open during the day 5) Gate is closed for more of the day with a security guard that opens it and awkwardly stands around keeping an eye on people Some of the stores must have had incredible losses early on.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:51
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more friedman units posted:This is REALLY true. 15k per day in a store for larger groceries. 4k in single incidents. Organized liquor shoplifting 'rings' that have scheduled drops to bars and restaurants that buy in bulk at reduced rates.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:32
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And imagine it before the security caps. They finally added a mirror when my brother graduated in 2004 because high school kids would walk to the liquor aisle, drop a bottle down their pants and then walk out. It didn't do much to stop it. The new store they built has cameras, is positioned next to a CSR desk and enough mirror coverage to see the entire 2-3 short aisles and probably still has decent shrinkage.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:33
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Sloppy posted:I think that's the best description of Oregon I've ever read. Shout-out to Crater Lake! Visiting it was the only time I drove up to Oregon. Spectacular park - not to mention the scenic drive on Highway 5 which I'm pretty sure passed by Volcanic National Monument on the northern edge of Cali. I think Crater Lake is like 300 miles south of Portland, but man I need to see that city to believe it. 
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Mar 13, 2014 04:36
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Gerund posted:15k per day in a store for larger groceries. 4k in single incidents. Organized liquor shoplifting 'rings' that have scheduled drops to bars and restaurants that buy in bulk at reduced rates. Jesus, how is that even possible? Are there crowds of people walking in, emptying the shelves, then walking out?
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Mar 13, 2014 05:59
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Kaal posted:Having never even heard of the story before, I have to say that it's kind of noteworthy that the journalist is hooraying when state lawmakers came out in droves to oppose an Indian mystic starting up a commune in rural Oregon, but doesn't blink an eye at the Protestant youth camp that replaced it. If the Christian camp operated like the Rajneeshis did, they would probably get the attention of the state lawmakers too. One of the things they did, in order to take over the local government by more legal means was to pick up homeless people from all over the US, bring them to Oregon, and registered them to vote. As soon as they had enough votes to start forming a legit city they gave these people the boot, dumping a few thousand people on Oregon's already notorious homeless problem. And even with all that, the state more or less let them be until it blew up into major issues of tax dodging, immigration fraud, and what has been called the first biological weapon attack in the US. All in all, Oregon was far more tolerant of them then they should have been in hindsight. Also, when you see the local media referencing "land use" as a hot topic around this, what they are getting at is water, which is a huge issue east of the Cascades. It is a big part of why the 2 halves of Oregon and Washington can be so different in terms of politics. One side sees politics as managing water, farms and range land. The other side is busy with urban sprawl, big business and international trade. Kaal posted:Mmm I'd have to disagree here. Oregon has had its race issues, but they are largely overblown in popular imagination. Yah, this is one of those points where Oregon can be ridiculously liberal. It doesn't have a past that is really any more racist than any other part of the US. And there are states that were far more ruthless in their racism. But there is a hell of a lot of hand wringing here over what racism there has been. Meanwhile, you have places like modern day Arizona going out of there way to round up Hispanics, and New York City deliberately targeting minorities for stop-and-frisk. The fact that people around here can be critical about not being diverse enough is bona fides for being more liberal than average.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:32
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Best Friends posted:Washington, despite going consistently democratic when it counts, has always been very much a 48/52 state (and sometimes even closer) so it does not take much to make a race incredibly tight. Rossi was an okay campaigner, the republicans in general were very strong that cycle, and the democrats who were volunteering and super passionate about democratic causes in 2004 on the ground spent their time being passionate about Kerry/Bush rather than pushing Gregoire would be my guesses based on what I saw but I am no pollster. Yeah, we even had a Republican AG for quite a while. I am so loving glad Rob McKenna lost. Jay Inslee is exactly the perfect model of Washington governor: liberal, boring, and competent. Anyway, neither of our senators has had a competent challenge in a great long while, so Murray and Cantwell will be around until they don't want the job anymore or die. The Republican Party here is a bit of a mess. Pretty sure they're going to lose their tenuous hold on the state Senate. Turnout's not as much of an issue as we've got loving MAIL BALLOTS, HELL YES. 
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Mar 13, 2014 07:50
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Kaal posted:Having never even heard of the story before, I have to say that it's kind of noteworthy that the journalist is hooraying when state lawmakers came out in droves to oppose an Indian mystic starting up a commune in rural Oregon, but doesn't blink an eye at the Protestant youth camp that replaced it. I mean I understand the conceptual difference between someone camping versus someone living there, but that Young Life camp hosts thousands of kids year-round and has most of the same amenities (airport, fire station, public schools, etc.). Where were the land-use regulators and state attorneys concerned about church-state separation when they started operating? Of course I suppose a foreign cult is an easier target than an American Christian youth ministry. You should probably read up on what the Rajneeshis were up to before you make equivocations like this.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:55
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Yah, this is one of those points where Oregon can be ridiculously liberal. It doesn't have a past that is really any more racist than any other part of the US. And there are states that were far more ruthless in their racism. But there is a hell of a lot of hand wringing here over what racism there has been. Meanwhile, you have places like modern day Arizona going out of there way to round up Hispanics, and New York City deliberately targeting minorities for stop-and-frisk. The fact that people around here can be critical about not being diverse enough is bona fides for being more liberal than average. I think Oregon does a pretty good job, though of course it hasn't been tested as much as other states with more immigration and endemic poverty to deal with. One thing that's kind of cool about Oregon is that while the overall racial diversity is lower than many states with significant populations of Blacks or Latinos, there is less geographical stratification. Outside of a few immigrant enclaves (like the burgeoning Russian district in East Portland) there's little in the way of White areas or Black cities or Latino neighborhoods. Michigan has a similar racial demographic profile as Oregon with 76% non-Hispanic whites, but there's no Oregon equivalent of Detroit (82% Black) and so more cultural intermingling actually occurs. Prokhor Zakharov posted:before you make equivocations like this. I don't think that word means what you think it means. And I've read quite a bit about the history, and none of it really explains how 2,000 Rajneeshees are any more urban (according to 1,000 Friends of Oregon - an otherwise excellent group) than 7,000 Protestants. And it doesn't justify the actions of Wasco Planning Director Dan Durow who asks point-blank if they're religious and then clearly flouts usual practices and picks out the Rajneeshees for strict scrutiny. And it doesn't really support how OAG Dave Frohnmeyer could win case after case declaring their town to be illegal, and then suddenly everything gets reversed after the Rajneeshees leave and it's totally legal for a new religious group to set up shop. I understand that the group's leaders did a bunch of terrible things and don't deserve any benefit of the doubt, and I don't need to bring up a dispute that's 25 years old, but the arguments against construction and incorporation posed by state commissioners and attorneys had nothing to do with Sheela being a power-hungry psychopath, and it is utterly convenient that those arguments were uniformly dropped when the good Christians at Young Life moved in and set up a commune of their own. I'm sure that everything was done in a lawful manner and that all those involved have their reasons, but to an outsider's perspective it looks a lot like a rural county kicked out a bunch of nonbelievers and installed a bunch of the faithful in their place. Kaal fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 07:56
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Yeah, I don't think it's cool for the community to be cracking down on a group of people just because they happen to follow an unpopular religion, but because the Rajneeshees committed domestic bioterrorism they're not a group I defend often.
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Mar 13, 2014 08:59
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Kaal posted:...and it is utterly convenient that those arguments were uniformly dropped when the good Christians at Young Life moved in and set up a commune of their own. But Younglife isn't running a commune. It's a summer camp. And I'll preface what I'm about to say with this. I'm not a Christian. I was traveling back from visiting relatives in Tri-Cities when I got the opportunity to visit the Big Muddy Ranch, and Christian camp or not, I wasn't going to pass up the chance to check out a such a controversial place. They were running tours for the locals because the locals are still suspicious and wanted to see the place for themselves. Like I said, I visited in the off-season (October), and all they had was a small maintenance staff. They don't run a city of 7000 people year round. The current owners also do everything to follow local laws, and had to sink a lot of money into bringing everything they could up to code. When I visited the place, the shopping center the Rajneeshees built was closed off because the current owners hadn't spent the money to have licensed electricians and plumbers go over the whole thing to make it legal to use. The Rajneeshees on the other hand tried to take over the local government to change the laws to suit them. They didn't get any permits to start building apartments and roads and waste water treatment. And when challenged about it, they tried to dodge it by declaring themselves to be their own city. Oregon gave a lot of leeway to an organization that was pretty blatant in thumbing its nose at both the letter and spirit of the law. If they had kept to themselves while following the law, they would have been left alone, like so many other wacky communes spread around Oregon that never make the news. There is a full time nudist colony in rural Washington county, but most people don't know that because they otherwise abide by the laws and don't bug the neighbors. There is a Buddhist monastery in rural Columbia county, but no one is trying to drive them out because they keep to themselves without flouting local laws. It really is not as simple as picking on Indian mystics while ignoring Protestant Christians. Not only are the Christians not running a full on city, but they aren't trying to drive locals out of government to run the county as they please. It also helps that the Christian summer camp isn't running it's own police force.  http://photos.oregonlive.com/photo-essay/2011/04/rajneesh_-_life_on_the_ranch.html#photo-9480192
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Mar 13, 2014 10:17
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Man, why can't I run a cult? That poo poo looks neat.
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Mar 13, 2014 10:38
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I live in New York City and read thinking of moving out to Seattle cause I heard cost of living isn't as high as it is here. This thread is kind of selling me on the idea of not moving out to the Pacific Northwest.
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Mar 13, 2014 11:59
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KomradeX posted:I live in New York City and read thinking of moving out to Seattle cause I heard cost of living isn't as high as it is here. This thread is kind of selling me on the idea of not moving out to the Pacific Northwest. It's terrible, there are rampaging rape gangs and KKK marauders that haunt the nights. Cougars haunt the day. Stay far away.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:13
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TheBalor posted:It's terrible, there are rampaging rape gangs and KKK marauders that haunt the nights. Cougars haunt the day. Stay far away. Note that hunting actually is fairly popular; my parents are currently looking for a place in Corvallis and this was in one of the prospective houses: 
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Mar 13, 2014 13:50
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computer parts posted:Note that hunting actually is fairly popular; my parents are currently looking for a place in Corvallis and this was in one of the prospective houses: oh god that poor Coug 
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Mar 13, 2014 14:10
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computer parts posted:Note that hunting actually is fairly popular; my parents are currently looking for a place in Corvallis and this was in one of the prospective houses: Not necessarily everywhere you go, though. Out where I live nobody at all hunts the deer, and the end result is that the things stopped being even remotely skittish and started being ballsy motherfucks who'll leisurely walk down the middle of a busy road just so they can get at somebody's vegetable garden. Edit: for reference, this is how bad the deer problem in our town has gotten. 
Wanamingo fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 14:20
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Kaal posted:Mmm I'd have to disagree here. Oregon has had its race issues, but they are largely overblown in popular imagination. Generally you'll find that Oregon has had a faddish approach to such things - passing short-lived laws that were never enacted or enforced. Provincial Oregon freed black slaves and banned slavery, and while it also ordered those blacks to leave the state that order was never enforced and was rescinded within a year. It later banned further black immigration, but that ban only lasted five years and it was sporadically enforced. Conservatives again tried to implement an exclusion law in the first State Constitution of 1857, but it was never enabled and was soon voided by the Civil War (although it stayed on the books until 1927 when it was repealed by popular vote). The KKK was popular in Oregon in the 1920s, but as a fraternal social organization and not as a vigilante group. When organizers began to advocate for the kind of violence and intimidation of the KKK in the South, public support evaporated and the klan fell apart. As a white person, I just don't think institutional racism by the state gov't against blacks is that big of a deal. In fact, it's largely overblown. Catch you later, I gotta ride my 100% vegan sourced bike to the fair trade cafe to get my imported coffee from Jakarta before Portlandia comes on!
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Mar 13, 2014 15:16
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OBAMA CURES ALAWIS posted:As a white person, I just don't think institutional racism by the state gov't against blacks is that big of a deal. In fact, it's largely overblown. Catch you later, I gotta ride my 100% vegan sourced bike to the fair trade cafe to get my imported coffee from Jakarta before Portlandia comes on! As a white person, I can tell you that institutional racism by the Oregon state gov't against blacks has been mild compared to its historical treatment of Native Americans (i.e. two lovely wars in the form of the Nez Perce War and the Snake War) and of women (women's suffrage was fought for hard and early by Oregonians) or the mentally ill (forced sterilizations by the Oregon Board of Eugenics) or of Asian-Americans (toleration of all sorts of mistreatment during the gold mining/railroad building era, culminating with the Japanese internment camp in Portland and a state-wide exclusion zone), or of gays (gay marriage remains banned in Oregon despite the law's unpopularity). I could easily go on. So if you want to talk about institutional racism then we should talk about that rather than a headline-grabbing law that was never enforced and lasted one year. 
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Mar 13, 2014 16:49
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TheBalor posted:It's terrible, there are rampaging rape gangs and KKK marauders that haunt the nights. Cougars haunt the day. Stay far away. Did you know Oregon has 30,000 bears and 6,000 cougars?! And they love to eat out of towners, of course. I'd suggest covering your self in a good dry rub before going out into the woods. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 16:50
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Kaal posted:As a white person, I can tell you that institutional racism by the Oregon state gov't against blacks has been mild compared to its historical treatment of Native Americans (i.e. two lovely wars in the form of the Nez Perce War and the Snake War) and of women (women's suffrage was fought for hard and early by Oregonians) or the mentally ill (forced sterilizations by the Oregon Board of Eugenics) or of Asian-Americans (toleration of all sorts of mistreatment during the gold mining/railroad building era, culminating with the Japanese internment camp in Portland and a state-wide exclusion zone). I could easily go on. So if you want to talk about institutional racism then we should talk about that rather than a headline-grabbing law that was never enforced and lasted one year. Though arguably the reason those abuses are more prevalent is that they didn't scare away all of those races/groups like they did with black people.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:52
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computer parts posted:Though arguably the reason those abuses are more prevalent is that they didn't scare away all of those races/groups like they did with black people. The Nez Perce War is constituted of the US Army literally forcing American Indians out of Oregon at gunpoint.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:56
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Kaal posted:The Nez Perce War is constituted of the US Army literally forcing American Indians out of Oregon at gunpoint. Yes, and? Southerners did the same thing and then did worse to black people.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:02
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computer parts posted:Yes, and? Southerners did the same thing and then did worse to black people. I'm not sure that what's left of the Native American tribes would see it that way, but what's your point? We're not talking about the South. Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 17:23
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Spatula City posted:Yeah, we even had a Republican AG for quite a while. I am so loving glad Rob McKenna lost. Jay Inslee is exactly the perfect model of Washington governor: liberal, boring, and competent. I love the mail ballots so much! I've never had to stand in line at a polling place, I just get my ballot and have a few weeks to research and figure out my vote, and after I send it in there is a paper record of what happened. I'm sure it isn't perfect but after hearing about people standing in line for hours in Florida I'm not sure why every state doesn't adopt this system. Especially since election day is in the middle of the week and people don't get paid time off. On another PacNW subject, I've been wanting to learn more about Boeing's culture and mentality. I'm very glad Boeing is here as having heavy industry with international customers provides tens of thousands of good jobs, but I don't care for their threats to move (and how they did move their HQ to Chicago a few years ago.) Especially since after Boeing moved some production to South Carolina they began having serious QA issues with wires being installed wrong, which you really don't want on passenger jets. My question is has Boeing always been like this, or was there a shift to more jackass management a few years ago?
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Mar 13, 2014 17:27
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Kaal posted:I'm not sure that what's left of the Native American tribes would see it that way, but what's your point? We're not talking about the South. My point is that you have yet to show that Oregonians are totally not racist against black people. Remember, while Oregon is more diverse than (eg) New Hampshire, it's only 1.8% black. That's only 0.7% more than New Hampshire. By contrast somewhere like Michigan (a state which comparable non-Hispanic white numbers as Oregon) is 14% black.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:35
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computer parts posted:My point is that you have yet to show that Oregonians are totally not racist against black people. So you're saying that Oregonians are racist because there was slavery in the South? How does that make any sense? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. I think that fundamentally you're conflating racial diversity with how many black people there are, and that is a real disservice to the 25% of Americans who are neither white nor black.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:41
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Kaal posted:So you're saying that Oregonians are racist because there was slavery in the South? How does that make any sense? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. You made the assertion that Oregonians weren't racist against black people because their law forbidding slaves (and free blacks) was repealed after an insignificant amount of time and anyway there was much worse racial tension for other groups. My assertion was that the only reason there wasn't bad racial tension regarding black people is that there weren't and aren't many black people in Oregon, and if there were the same issues would show up. You responded that the US did terrible things to natives. I responded that the US did terrible things to natives everywhere, so that's not really a distinguishing factor. Then you decided to act completely oblivious to the original point, which was that Oregonians have not had experience in dealing with racial tensions regarding black people. quote:
My point is that just because you've dealt with racism regarding a given group it doesn't mean you're suddenly not racist for everyone.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:47
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Mojo Threepwood posted:I love the mail ballots so much! I've never had to stand in line at a polling place, I just get my ballot and have a few weeks to research and figure out my vote, and after I send it in there is a paper record of what happened. I'm sure it isn't perfect but after hearing about people standing in line for hours in Florida I'm not sure why every state doesn't adopt this system. Especially since election day is in the middle of the week and people don't get paid time off. Yeah I absolutely love the mail ballots and couldn't imagine trying to vote any other way. I mean how are you supposed to do research on minor candidates if you only hear about them when you get your ballot? No wonder undervoting is such a problem. Give me a mail ballot and the leisure to actually conduct some online research.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:53
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Mojo Threepwood posted:My question is has Boeing always been like this, or was there a shift to more jackass management a few years ago? The running line is that things changed drastically after the Boeing/McDonald-Douglas merger.
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Mar 13, 2014 18:02
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