|
Yeah let's just leave it at not being a retcon and wait when/if VP2 gets shown.
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:04 |
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Demonstrating the fine tactical sense that got him into Valhalla in the first place, Llewellyn has decided that the best place for the squishy archer is on the front lines, directly below the giant lizardmen and their axes. Truly, Llewellyn strives to be an example to us all. Look. If we've learned one thing from this game, it's that Midgard sucks. Having your tactics all be based around "What would sound most badass at my funeral?" is probably the way to go. Just takes a while to adjust your strategies after.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 02:22
|
|
|
So uh, what reason do Arngrim and Mystina have to distrust Hrist here? From their perspective, they were materialized from the aether to see someone who kind of looks like Lenneth, only that she's wearing black and she's kind of brusque in ordering them around (although it's not like Lenneth is Miss Manners either). I mean, yeah, the player knows that this isn't a good thing, but how do the einherjar know that? Why are they totally cool getting bossed around by one death goddess, but react with hostility at one who's almost exactly the same? For all they know it's just a change in management.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:08
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:So uh, what reason do Arngrim and Mystina have to distrust Hrist here? From their perspective, they were materialized from the aether to see someone who kind of looks like Lenneth, only that she's wearing black and she's kind of brusque in ordering them around (although it's not like Lenneth is Miss Manners either). I mean, yeah, the player knows that this isn't a good thing, but how do the einherjar know that? Why are they totally cool getting bossed around by one death goddess, but react with hostility at one who's almost exactly the same? For all they know it's just a change in management. Well, Lenneth was yelling for their help and then they suddenly get there and she's someone different, it's not that hard to believe they could infer Hrist did something to their boss.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:10
|
|
|
I guess the better question would be: what reason do they have to even give a poo poo about Lenneth, the cold robotic chooser of the slain who literally holds their souls and calls them out like pokemon whenever she needs something killed?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:15
|
|
|
Because she isn't cold and robotic, which is the entire point of the game so far.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Because she isn't cold and robotic, which is the entire point of the game so far. I'm not sold on this, especially from the non-Lucian einherjars' perspectives - which amounts to getting punched in the dick at the Valkyrie's behest, and who knows if they even experience anything when they're not materialized.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:23
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I guess the better question would be: what reason do they have to even give a poo poo about Lenneth, the cold robotic chooser of the slain who literally holds their souls and calls them out like pokemon whenever she needs something killed? Stockholm Syndrome is a helluva drug.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
Well, let's just look at the start of the update. Arngrim: What's happening? Mystina: Stay back Arngrim. Something's not right. Arngrim: Mystina, who's that. Hrist: I am the Valkyrie. From now on you two shall obey me. So Hrist, from their perspective, pops out of nowhere and immediately proclaims them her servants. By comparison, look back to how each of them are recruited. Lenneth helps Arngrim avenge Jelanda, then simply lets him come along once he's killed himself. Mystina's lost her body and is effectively stuck as a wandering soul, and Lenneth points out that if she comes along, she'll get a chance to study Asgard up close. As cold and robotic as Lenneth could be, she's clearly given them one massive advantage over Hrist as a Valkyrie; they have a choice to join up. And that's ignoring the characters who get far bigger favors out of Lenneth to coax them into joining, which Arngrim at least would likely have been around for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:33
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I guess the better question would be: what reason do they have to even give a poo poo about Lenneth, the cold robotic chooser of the slain who literally holds their souls and calls them out like pokemon whenever she needs something killed? If nothing else, they've hung out with her more. Sure they usually only show up to fight, but that's still a lot more interaction than they've had with Hrist, and besides all of the things they've been fighting have totally deserved destruction. Lenneth has her head on basically straight, is my point. She's absolutely a lot more stable than like 90% of the voiced characters we've seen  Also, for a cold robotic chooser of the slain, she sure ends up doing a lot of stuff for other peoples' love lives. Witness Yumei, Llewellyn, and Belenos.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:35
|
|
|
Uh, because Hrist has black armour, gives imperious commands and is practically screaming out Hey guys I'm a badguy! It's not really that hard of a leap of logic to figure out that you probably don't want to hang around with her. I mean look at Mystina, she's pretty genre savvy and knows enough that she doesn't want to have a piece of the pie that Hrist is offering her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:48
|
|
|
Who would have thought Lezard's creepy obsession would actually come in handy?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:22
|
|
|
Not to mention gameplay/story separation: I know Lenneth summons all of them anew at the start of every fight in gameplay terms, but if you think about it, wouldn't it make more sense to keep them out all the time when you're in a possibly dangerous area, like Hrist seemed to in the flashbacks involving her? That way they can help you immediately in the case of an ambush or whatever. That's plenty of time to interact, even if 90% of it is fighting and 'goddammit help me lift this treasure chest over to that cliff, Arngrim.' The writing here isn't perfect - they could have given you at least a couple scenes of Armgrim and Lenneth interacting, since you're guaranteed to have him - but I can still buy it. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Also, for a cold robotic chooser of the slain, she sure ends up doing a lot of stuff for other peoples' love lives. Witness Yumei, Llewellyn, and Belenos. Endorph fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:03
|
|
|
Lenneth has the dignity and care to say things like "my NOBLE Einherjar" when she calls for them. She clearly has respect and mercy for the ones she picks, and none of them are going to ignore poo poo like "wow she even saved Badrach from Hell what a gal" or "wow, Llewellyn, just, wow, wow, just wow" and so on. It's clear they've all had, even if just in battle, time to see Lenneth as a caring and protective overlord of the souls she chooses, AND Arngrim and Mystina both have the reasonably assumed benefit of some level of reincarnated memory of the kind of jackass Hrist likely was. Probably got the job done, but at an any expense any cost level, likely by design by Odin and Freya -- low returns in exchange for guaranteed results. Hrist wouldn't grab up Hel-bound souls begging for their unlife several times over, or stop to consider notions of pity for all the sorry sons of bitches she keeps finding with their asses in their laps across the world. There's an unspoken level of communication that happened on a meta level, else why would Mystina and Arngrim act so quickly and willingly to save Lenneth at the behest of a nerdlinger like Lezard? EDIT: To further speculate wildly, I'd bet $10 that Lenneth is the Valkyrie who produces the best and most loyal Einherjar because of how she is, that is, deeply affected by human life and very receptive and merciful to it. She probably recruits a lot of losers and badass rebels who don't play by the rules, but likely sends up the most promising and devoted soldiers for the sake of Ragnarok -- why else would they pick Lenneth over a tyrant like Hrist? She probably finds the most willful souls that Valhalla needs, because she recognizes them as something more than meatbags to throw at the enemy, and her unspoken empathy and willingness to go out of her way to put their souls to rest makes them all the more fierce in devotion. Lenneth gets loving PISSED when she stumbles across undead who are mucking about with human souls for the hell of it, or just to feed. She clearly doesn't like powerful things who toy with the weak. Black August fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:21
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Not to mention gameplay/story separation: I know Lenneth summons all of them anew at the start of every fight in gameplay terms, but if you think about it, wouldn't it make more sense to keep them out all the time when you're in a possibly dangerous area, like Hrist seemed to in the flashbacks involving her? That way they can help you immediately in the case of an ambush or whatever. There are also the other optional instances where you bring certain characters to related places and they just step out of Lenneth. And in Badrach's case, he even interacts with a living person so we know einharjars can have a physical impact on the world and would probably stick around a few times.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:24
|
|
|
Daigerus posted:There are also the other optional instances where you bring certain characters to related places and they just step out of Lenneth.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:29
|
|
|
Daigerus posted:There are also the other optional instances where you bring certain characters to related places and they just step out of Lenneth. And in Badrach's case, he even interacts with a living person so we know einharjars can have a physical impact on the world and would probably stick around a few times. I always assumed they were just in soulspace or something, sort of hovering at the edge of her consciousness to not tax themselves, but able to will themselves into spiritual existence when something catches their attention, or Lenneth wants to summon/speak with them. Like having a shitload of people on permanent Skype call with you, wherever you go. Then she slams a button and three of them are ready for a pizza party.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:30
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Also, for a cold robotic chooser of the slain, she sure ends up doing a lot of stuff for other peoples' love lives. Witness Yumei, Llewellyn, and Belenos. "Yeah sure you can see your distraught, mourning loved ones for a few seconds before I shove you into the divine pokeball". To me that doesn't seem like she particularly cares about them, or that it's some big sacrifice on her part. Sorry guys, the game just does an awful job of showing that there's any kind of bond between the einherjars and the Valkyrie beyond servitude. It's still a good game, but the writing and story are definitely not its strong suits.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:42
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:"Yeah sure you can see your distraught, mourning loved ones for a few seconds before I shove you into the divine pokeball".
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 07:29
|
|
|
Well obviously it's because Lenneth is the main character of this game and not Hrist. After all, it's not like the game is called Vakyrie Profile: Hrist. Poor Hrist, she'll never have her own game. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 07:46
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:"Yeah sure you can see your distraught, mourning loved ones for a few seconds before I shove you into the divine pokeball". To me that doesn't seem like she particularly cares about them, or that it's some big sacrifice on her part. The point of that was to give Llewelyn a chance to say goodbye to his lover. Lenneth is a Chooser of the Slain, reviving people is kinda not in her purview. There's also stuff like keeping Kashell's vial save, passing on Aelia's directions to Celia, saving Claire on Lucian's request. Lenneth repeatedly goes beyond the line of duty to make sure her Einherjar pass on peacefully, saying she's simply cold and robotic is ignoring what's there. Granted it would be nice to have more post-recruitment interactions with Lenneth, but the game gives us enough to assume she is sympathetic to and cares about humans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
Yeah but none of those things strike me very much as "going beyond the line of duty". It's like a millionaire donating a penny to charity. I mean yeah it's generous, but only by the most basic definition of the word.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 08:53
|
|
|
Would getting her soul blasted into pieces to save her Einherjar count?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 09:00
|
|
|
Lenneth is also preparing for Ragnarok, the final war that is supposed to be the end of the world. She doesn't really have a lot of time to go out and really go out of her way to help the Einherjar like you seem to expect. She comes across as understanding and willing to help others when she can, but each thing you do is another tick on the clock and ostensibly she shouldn't have time to do what she does. The fact that Odin and Freyja resort to this at the eleventh hour is an indication that Lenneth has spent a lot of her time not focusing on her mission. Last time when we played it straight and ignored the story this didn't come up at all. Essentially the game structure and the storytelling don't lend itself to clearly inferring it but there is I would say more argument that Lenneth is sympathetic enough for Arngrim and Mystina as free and independent spirits to dislike and mistrust Hrist. Arngrim hates people who look down on others and use them, while Mystina is pretty rebellious but has enough power and talent to back her up. You're overanalysing this scene. Yes it's constructed to make you sympathetic to Lenneth but that doesn't make it implausible either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 09:03
|
|
|
*shrug* That could be true, but only in absolute terms. We should think about it comparatively. We see that Lenneth does make a modicum of effort to make sure her charges volunteer and are willing to fight. Pragmatic and calculated? Perhaps. But from Hrist's introduction here, we very much get the implication she would be unwilling to do even that. She chose you, you're an Einherjar, get to work filthy human. Given that, it's not that strange Arngrim and Mystina are suspicious of Hrist, and she follows up by immediately demonstrating that she very likely had something to do with Lenneth's disappearance. Between her attitude and likely being the cause of Lenneth's demise, the two of them bailing and taking whatever recourse they had is the more believable of available options; after all, if Hrist will attack another God for no apparent reason, what chance do they have?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 09:05
|
|
|
GodofDiscord posted:Poor Hrist, she'll never have her own game. She did provide us the title of this LP, though, so at least she's contributing. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 09:41
|
|
|
I just think it's a little weird (and lazy on the part of the writers) that they immediately react with hostility upon seeing Hrist. Of course it's not implausible. It's just dumb.
Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 10:30
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I just think it's a little weird (and lazy on the part of the writers) that they immediately react with hostility upon seeing Hrist. Of course it's not implausible. It's just dumb. At the end of the previous update, Valkyrie shouted "It's. . . It's you! Help me! Mystina, Arngrim, help me!!" I think that's enough of a reason.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 12:57
|
|
|
You know, it just occurred to me that the Valkyrie's differences are really symbolic of their place in the sisterhood. Hrist is driven to succeed and controlling. Silmeria is compassionate and more of a free spirit (more on that if VP2 gets done). And Lenneth is balanced in those aspects.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 15:06
|
|
|
Perhaps more to the point, it's Arngrim and Mystina, which is to say gently caress YOU DAD and BORED NOW. I can't imagine them reacting otherwise to anyone who popped up and said "Hey, y'all my bitches now."
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 15:53
|
|
|
I just finished plowing through this whole thread and I have to say, the battle system and the art style of the characters is what I really like most about this game. Oh, and also the hammy localization, which in some cases ends up being amazing. The art is very pretty, but the anime-emoticon reactions in the recent scene are really jarring 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 02:44
|
|
|
How Rude posted:I just finished plowing through this whole thread and I have to say, the battle system and the art style of the characters is what I really like most about this game. Oh, and also the hammy localization, which in some cases ends up being amazing. Remember, one of the two main artists of this game went on to work on Kill La Kill and Gurren Lagann.  He really, REALLY likes drawing wild takes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
vibratingsheep posted:Remember, one of the two main artists of this game went on to work on Kill La Kill and Gurren Lagann.  That's so weird, because the character design for this game has a very human, detailed, and closer to realistic look, at least not including the 90s anime intro which obviously is not the same as the concept/character art. I enjoy the portraits alot in this game simply because they do not look lazy at all in evoking emotion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
vibratingsheep posted:Remember, one of the two main artists of this game went on to work on Kill La Kill and Gurren Lagann. To be fair, half of what he did for Gurren Lagann was wacky faces, but the other half was this:  
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 08:14
|
|
|
Update is going to be delayed (Tales of Graces f has pretty much eaten up my free time this week), but in the meantime I snipped this: And for those who want to use it, in avatar size:  They're not perfectly cut by any means, but for the most part I'm fairly satisfied.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
Why is Mystina's hair colored differently between her portrait and her sprite?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 14:29
|
|
|
Hedera Helix posted:Why is Mystina's hair colored differently between her portrait and her sprite? This is just a thing that happens sometimes with a lot of video games from that period and earlier. There doesn't seem to have been a lot of communication between portrait makers and spriters. I remember in the Der Langrisser thread, the big bad had blond hair for one and white hair for the other, and in some other games a character might have green hair in their sprite and blond in their portrait. Maybe they changed the portrait after they made the sprite for some reason?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
Lotish posted:This is just a thing that happens sometimes with a lot of video games from that period and earlier. There doesn't seem to have been a lot of communication between portrait makers and spriters. I remember in the Der Langrisser thread, the big bad had blond hair for one and white hair for the other, and in some other games a character might have green hair in their sprite and blond in their portrait. Maybe they changed the portrait after they made the sprite for some reason? Also in the SNES era of RPGs a lot of the colors present in the character designs were unavailable in the palettes for the games. So things like Terra with green hair in the game but blonde hair in the art happened. How Rude fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 18:09
|
|
|
How Rude posted:Also in the SNES era of RPGs a lot of the colors present in the character designs were unavailable in the palettes for the games. So things like Terra with green hair in the game but blonde hair in the art happened. But Celes and the Figaro twins were both blonde, weren't they?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:04 |
|
|
That may also be a part of it - a desire for Celes and Terra to look distinct at a glance, given they're both very important characters.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 03:18
|
|
