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Enigma89
Jan 2, 2007

by CVG
I almost always go drums into yasha then aghs as Tiny. It seems useless to have a giant cleave and high attack damage if I am hitting so slow.

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Kild
Apr 24, 2010

Seems a waste to have a bunch of attackspeed and nothing to do with it. Aghs helps you farm faster by cleaving creeps and 4 shotting towers.

Also the 4k spent on drums and yasha is better off on AC imo.

Moongrave
Jun 19, 2004

Finally Living Rent Free

Dr. Snuggles
Dec 3, 2012

Tbh some of us (Pick) use this website more than others and I feel that I am unfairly subsidizing picks posting. Unless some kind of fee by post usage is enabled were basically instituting a forced welfare state of posting.
Typically with melee carries move speed can be really important. Hence Tasha drums is the more solid picku, at least mid game.

Elman
Oct 26, 2009

Kild posted:

Seems a waste to have a bunch of attackspeed and nothing to do with it. Aghs helps you farm faster by cleaving creeps and 4 shotting towers.

That's because it is a waste if you do nothing with it. The point is they're good, cost-efficient early items that give you stats to teamfight and wreck face because you're loving Tiny and you shouldn't be afk farming when your combo deals over a thousand burst damage at 9.

You can AoE farm stacks with your combo if you want to, it's not like you need to rush a naked Aghs if you want to have farm.

Elman fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Mar 14, 2014

Kild
Apr 24, 2010

Aferisan posted:

Typically with melee carries move speed can be really important. Hence Tasha drums is the more solid picku, at least mid game.

Buildings don't really move.

Elman posted:

That's because it is a waste if you do nothing with it. The point is they're good, cost-efficient early items that give you stats to teamfight and wreck face because you're loving Tiny and you shouldn't be afk farming when your combo deals over a thousand burst damage at 9.

You can AoE farm stacks with your combo if you want to, it's not like you need to rush a naked Aghs if you want to have farm.

Why are you teamfighting at the 10 minute mark. Why is your guy in the 1 position not farming. Aghs gives more stats than Drums. Yasha is better off as a Hyperstone. Aghs does more in a teamfight. The cleave AoE is huge and hitting for 100 pure damage on 4 other people does more than a bit of movespeed. You don't need attack speed to 'wreck face' early when as you said your combo already does that. You don't need midgame items as a Tiny when your combo can carry you to late game.

Kild fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 14, 2014

Elman
Oct 26, 2009

Kild posted:

Why are you teamfighting at the 10 minute mark. Why is your guy in the 1 position not farming.

Because you can? Push meta and all that, win super early by abusing the fact that your hard carry is an early game powerhouse while the enemy team is one man down. TPing to fights doesn't mean you aren't farming.

You can go full hard carry too if the game calls for it, I'm just saying Drums and Yasha aren't a waste :shobon:

BabyRyoga
May 21, 2001

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

Anatharon posted:

Forged Spirit!


Really though there's one for str/agi/int now so why'd there be more? :colbert:

Because there are 4 elements and only 3 "spirits".

Seriously, I can't be the only one who follows this train of logic, can I? Morphling doesn't actually have anything to do with water aside from his appearance.

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help
DotA has 3 elements. Strength, Agility and Intelligence :colbert:

BabyRyoga
May 21, 2001

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021
They will introduce the Charisma stat and change Storm Spirit to be a CHA hero. WHO'S THAT HANDSOME DEVIL

Meat Recital
Mar 26, 2009

by zen death robot
He was more charismatic as a fat hedonist than generic spirit guy.

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help
Skeleton King, Pugna and Clinkz are the other triplet of str/agi/int heroes with related models in the original DotA, I believe. Are there any others?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Boing posted:

Skeleton King, Pugna and Clinkz are the other triplet of str/agi/int heroes with related models in the original DotA, I believe. Are there any others?
Shadow Fiend, Doom Bringer, and Shadow Demon aren't related models but they have related backstories. There's also the Troll Trio of Huskar, Warlord, and Dazzle/Witch Doctor.

hubris.height
Jan 6, 2005

Pork Pro
I love Enchantress as a hero, I just wish I was better at playing her so I could enjoy it. I wish there was a way to lane her effectively. I guess if you just make a super push lane it could work, but the lack of a stun hurts a lot.

Dr. Snuggles
Dec 3, 2012

Tbh some of us (Pick) use this website more than others and I feel that I am unfairly subsidizing picks posting. Unless some kind of fee by post usage is enabled were basically instituting a forced welfare state of posting.
Cents are your stun moomoo

Amber Alert
Aug 28, 2009

fuk cyka


storm spirit treadmill dot jpg is needed. also Luna is the prettiest

Sundayturks
May 31, 2011

You were expecting...Sandy Claws?

Fun Shoe

Boing posted:

I hadn't thought of starting as ganking Tiny and transitioning into carry Tiny, it sounded inefficient but I'll give it a try!

It's my preferred way of playing Tiny, ideally you gank so drat hard once you get your blink dagger, the transition to Aghs > AC doesn't take too long.

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?
All the tournament Tinys are doing Treads->(optional Drum)->Agh->AC->Crit anymore, at least that I can remember. Try it, you might like it

Dr. Carwash
Sep 16, 2006

Senpai...
One true tiny build: http://dotabuff.com/players/67760037/matches?hero=tiny&lobby_type=&game_mode=&match_type=real

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer

hubris.height posted:

I love Enchantress as a hero, I just wish I was better at playing her so I could enjoy it. I wish there was a way to lane her effectively.
Pick up some cool creeps, wreck some guys. Get a net or that purple ball firing ability or a stomp or whatever else and lay waste to people.

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?

This makes me realize I ran into someone trying to imitate that build the other day. It didn't go so hot for him

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help

Sundayturks posted:

It's my preferred way of playing Tiny, ideally you gank so drat hard once you get your blink dagger, the transition to Aghs > AC doesn't take too long.

Can you get solo kills or do you need someone else there to help you nuke/disable the enemy? I find that yeah you can do a 900 damage combo but the enemy is always left with a sliver of health and they just walk away and I can't hit them :smith: is Orb of Venom a dumb choice?

Meat Recital
Mar 26, 2009

by zen death robot

TheQat posted:

All the tournament Tinys are doing Treads->(optional Drum)->Agh->AC->Crit anymore, at least that I can remember. Try it, you might like it

Nah, there's more variation than that. Phase Boots just as common as Treads. Drums are very popular as an early-mid game item to help your mana pool, but usually gets sold off first. Early Yasha is good for chasing people down so you can combo them, and late game Manta Styles are popular. The last time I saw someone go Treads straight in to Aghs was AUI standing in for Fnatic at the D2L finals, and he had a lot of problems not getting kited.

http://www.datdota.com/hero.php?q=Tiny&p=matches

KnoxZone
Jan 27, 2007

If I die before I Wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
The best way to play Tiny is to convince a friend to play Io. All the speed bonuses and relocate mobility you could ever want.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

KnoxZone posted:

The best way to play Tiny is to convince a friend to play Io. All the speed bonuses and relocate mobility you could ever want.

That's true of everyone. We had a designated Io player for a bit, really a guy that just inexplicably wanted to play Io every game, and all those games were a good time for the rest of us.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
Last time I picked IO in CD someone grabbed him before I could then said he couldn't play it and started bitching at me for drafting it.

Dr. Snuggles
Dec 3, 2012

Tbh some of us (Pick) use this website more than others and I feel that I am unfairly subsidizing picks posting. Unless some kind of fee by post usage is enabled were basically instituting a forced welfare state of posting.
Could always go arcanes blink dragon tiny. Then you have enough burst to kill everybody.

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3

Yams Fan

Nevvy Z posted:

Last time I picked IO in CD someone grabbed him before I could then said he couldn't play it and started bitching at me for drafting it.

IO is clearly the best carry. Strength + Ranged = OP because Satanic gives you damage and health and lifeleach and he has a great escape at 6th level.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
The best part of playing Wisp is relocating away at low health, the enemy team gathering around your little sparkles, jockeying for the kill, and then coming back with Lich.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

Can someone write some words about Dazzle? I ended up with him in a CD game last night and things were going really well up to the 25 minute mark or so but I felt more and more useless as the game went on. Part of this was probably our Luna building terrible items but I feel like I could have done more as well.

MuffinMan
Oct 1, 2001

roger that sir, you're good to go.
I had an Io/Tiny game last night so I figured I'd skip blink and we'd be ok. I was wrong, so very wrong.

The Io was actually pretty good but anytime we recalled into a fight the rest of our team would vacate the area, or tower we were fighting under.

hubris.height
Jan 6, 2005

Pork Pro
Dazzle has some of the best late game relevancy. The thing to remember is that his ult has a super long range and needs a few seconds to accumulate to significance. More often than not you're better off using it on your own team to make sure they have bonus armor going into a fight and not scaring away a potential team (almost every organized / good team / player will back off for the duration when you nail a good ult). Also, his Q is a mini stun, slow, mini stun, and continues doing damage for a duration afterwards.

Also, Shallow Grave is ridiculous and his heal is a great nuke early game and nice sustainable health increase late game.

Personally, I like going after Wards / Aghs / Eye of Skadi, but there are a lot of better builds. That's just what I go for because its fun. I think Wards / Mek / Medallion of Courage / Aghs is a better one, and putting a Eul's in there is a great idea because of poor mana pool / regen, especially early on. This will give you the late game relavence you were hoping for (I hope).

I'm sure someone else will have even better suggestions, this is just what I like to do, but I pretend I'm playing Demented Shaman from HoN when I play Dazzle so ymmv.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

IcePhoenix posted:

Can someone write some words about Dazzle? I ended up with him in a CD game last night and things were going really well up to the 25 minute mark or so but I felt more and more useless as the game went on. Part of this was probably our Luna building terrible items but I feel like I could have done more as well.
A lot of people underestimate Weave. Don't. Weave is loving huge. And it's hard to pull off, but a proper healbomb can deal a shitton of damage.

Weave works great as a way to scare enemies off of towers or Rosh - even if you aren't in a position to engage, just toss that poo poo out there and you might spook them, unless you're like the only person alive.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Aferisan posted:

The only problem with BS is his rupture is kind of a bad skill. Compared to other ultimates its downright depressing.

Nope

Rupture is a really good ult against heroes that need to move a lot, like most melee carries. There is no way to counter it with any ability or item in the game.

The real problem with rupture is that it needs to be at least level 2 to do any real damage. A lot of heroes can just tank the level 1 rupture damage when they run away.

Edit: The servers went down during a game I was playing and both my friends and I DC'd. After trying like 3 times to rejoin we gave up. I just launched Dota 2 to find out I have 6 LPQ games to play! Thanks Valve :bravo:

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Mar 14, 2014

Idiootti
Apr 11, 2012
Can you still grind out LPQ games in botgames? I saw eternal envy do this a while ago by getting lvl 1 roshan and just pushing through mid and he was taking about 12 minutes per game.

nearly killed em!
Aug 5, 2011

IcePhoenix posted:

Can someone write some words about Dazzle? I ended up with him in a CD game last night and things were going really well up to the 25 minute mark or so but I felt more and more useless as the game went on. Part of this was probably our Luna building terrible items but I feel like I could have done more as well.

Play mid Dazzle, every time. Max Shadow Wave and Poison Touch, Shallow Grave doesn't exist until you're level 10. Phase boots, Bottle, Hand of Midas, Mek, and Euls are your core items; Scythe of Vyse, Aghs, Necro3, and Refresher are great fourth items. Weave and poison touch are great for early ganks, most heroes have ~6 armor by the time you're seven so they'll be stripped of all of it fairly quickly and you'll get some pretty easy kills. Use Weave all the time on everything; it's great on your own team before a fight or a push and even more powerful on the enemy team a few seconds before a fight breaks out. Shallow Grave people at the absolute last possible moment. I see (bad) Dazzle players using Grave on half HP targets and that is a waste.

e: I'm late on the Bloodseeker chat but the hero is god drat terrible. He is an incredibly lovely variation of the Night Stalker, Templar Assassin, Storm Spirit, Kunkka, etc. model. None of his spells really make him good at early aggression and he certainly can't sustain it through the late game.

nearly killed em! fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Mar 14, 2014

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008

Idiootti posted:

Can you still grind out LPQ games in botgames? I saw eternal envy do this a while ago by getting lvl 1 roshan and just pushing through mid and he was taking about 12 minutes per game.

Yes. Axe, Dp, Lesh, Pugna and jug are great pushers. If you all go mid and you get a low prio crew who knows the drill you can finish in 4-6mins.

All go mid, axe cuts wave behind t1, and keep on rolling. Buy regen and cheap stat items like bracers and poo poo. dont feed one by one, if two people go down just b and wait for everyone to be up.

RisqueBarber
Jul 10, 2005

Idiootti posted:

Can you still grind out LPQ games in botgames? I saw eternal envy do this a while ago by getting lvl 1 roshan and just pushing through mid and he was taking about 12 minutes per game.

Yeah, but it has to be co-op bot games and the bots have to be above easy I think? Just get sylla bear, furion, pugna, enigma and like leshrac. Do rosh first then push mid.

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008
Re: bot games, no reason to do rosh.

You can also build a team like drow, venge, axe, dp/lesh, bm for auras and poo poo.

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Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008
Thats wrong it can be easy

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