Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011


Gentle Autist posted:

builds monster gaming rigs for himself even though he doesn’t play video games

thats fine to do :ninja:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007



Captain Foo posted:

there is seriously no reason to ever engage with ltt

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007



he's the big bang theory of tech youtubers

mystes
May 31, 2006



Captain Foo posted:

there is seriously no reason to ever engage with ltt*
*: ltt = Linux the thread

Insanite
Aug 30, 2005



College Slice

he’s not particularly interesting if you’re the kind of person who’d post in a crusty old forum about linux, but i do think it’s nice that his channel is driving at least a few quasi-normal people toward linux

because linux on the desktop is coming and it will be glorious.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




SYSV Fanfic posted:

Probed via linus's tip. Makes that guy close to laport I guess.

When I said multi user, I definitely meant multiple simultaneous human users. Desktop linux was built on a bunch of technology revolving around and configured for multiple simultaneous users by default. When the super computer lab I worked in (college) got rid of their x-terminals, the Linux club was able to hook them up to their dual pentium pro system. It was a pretty stock install of debian and all it took was changing some xdm configuration and a line in the default shell profile. They complemented the vt220s nicely.

I spent about an hour playing with the windows terminal services hack on old windows (xp). The big thing I noticed was file handle leak when you closed the rdp session w/o logging out. The only thing I see it being useful for is allowing multiple people to use software that has a hardware DRM dongle. It's very much a hack, and you're going to run into problems without the rest of the application server toolkit.

edit: Human, flesh and blood users.
Speaking of multiple people working on the same machine and things LTT gets wrong, one of the things people talk about being impressive that LTT does is the N people 1 machine nonsense, but that's just regular virtualization-based multi-tenancy which has been possible ever since x86 got hardware-accelerated virtualization.

Contrast this with the IRIX seating functionality, whereby multiple people can work on the same program from multiple different sets of monitor+keyboard+mouse connected to the same session - I recall seeing a demo video of 4 people working on different parts of the same 3D object at one point.
A similar thing got added to XFree86 and is still in Xorg to this day, called multiseating - but outside of a demo I did of it using FreeBSD at a LAN more than a decade ago, I've never actually seen it in use.

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009





writing real software that strictly conforms to POSIX is basically impossible. i tried doing it once with a toy program and it was still an enormous PITA. once you get to writing actual cross-platform code, POSIX is basically a list of things that are supported by all but one of the platforms you're targeting

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016






BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Speaking of multiple people working on the same machine and things LTT gets wrong, one of the things people talk about being impressive that LTT does is the N people 1 machine nonsense, but that's just regular virtualization-based multi-tenancy which has been possible ever since x86 got hardware-accelerated virtualization.

Contrast this with the IRIX seating functionality, whereby multiple people can work on the same program from multiple different sets of monitor+keyboard+mouse connected to the same session - I recall seeing a demo video of 4 people working on different parts of the same 3D object at one point.
A similar thing got added to XFree86 and is still in Xorg to this day, called multiseating - but outside of a demo I did of it using FreeBSD at a LAN more than a decade ago, I've never actually seen it in use.

That actually sounds kinda cool and would be a kickass way to collaborate. But I can see how complicated the programming can get.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007
INSOLENT


why would you put that in the display system instead making the individual programs client-server, since you're going to have to do that for all of them anyway

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003


pseudorandom name posted:

why would you put that in the display system instead making the individual programs client-server, since you're going to have to do that for all of them anyway

b/c the display system was already client/server.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




sb hermit posted:

That actually sounds kinda cool and would be a kickass way to collaborate. But I can see how complicated the programming can get.
Are you talking about collaborative programming/remote pair programming? Because that's a fairly new thing, as traditionally merges are done with a VCS.

pseudorandom name posted:

why would you put that in the display system instead making the individual programs client-server, since you're going to have to do that for all of them anyway
I don't remember if the multiseating in Xorg permits multiple to work on the same program, but the IRIX demo definitely had four independent mouse pointers working on different parts of the 3D object - so I don't understand what you mean by client-server programming, since the Xserver and clients are doing that part.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007
INSOLENT


if four people are working on the same model simultaneously then you're going to need to structure your application such that there is a "server" that maintains coherent state of your data and separate clients of that data that the individual users are interacting with, since you already have to do that at the application level to make that work, why bother doing it in the display server?

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003


pseudorandom name posted:

if four people are working on the same model simultaneously then you're going to need to structure your application such that there is a "server" that maintains coherent state of your data and separate clients of that data that the individual users are interacting with, since you already have to do that at the application level to make that work, why bother doing it in the display server?

You don't. One program owned by one user was just getting client events from multiple sources, and the x-server was just multicasting the results it rendered. Think of it like per window vnc.

For people that never used old poo poo:

X is network oriented because originally the X terminals connected to a computer in the datacenter, just like a text terminal. X terminals were a real, expensive thing. Their most popular use was same as today - running a terminal emulator that could emulate a lot of different dumb terms.

My super computer lab used HP x-terms.1600x1200 displays with BNC rgb connectors, three button mouse, and floppy drive. Desktop environment was CDE, originally a big selling point was they had netscape navigator and maple. By 2003 the primary use was people who had realized no one monitored, audited, or limited the internet traffic coming from the rs/6000 if it was coming from a program running under an x-session.

The only time I have ever used remote X was when I realized I could save $100 on a student maple license with ssh -X.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




Tangentially related to that, the reason X got its name is because it was one better than the W windowing system on an operating system called V.

Someone made a port of X for the i386, and called it X386.

Then someone else made a free implementation called XFree86.

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003


If anyone's never done C GUI programming, typically you have a function in your code that gets called by the windowing system/OS when something happens. Just like a signal handler for console stuff. It has a lot of if/then code for different types of events, like mouse over, click, keypress, etc. You wouldn't have to make the 3d editing program client/server - you'd just have to add code there to check the xclient the events were coming from - if you even cared.

Adding to that if/then block is 100x more approachable for programmers than client/server.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007
INSOLENT


oh you're talking about MDI with multiple pointers and cursors

this is significantly lamer than I was assuming

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




pseudorandom name posted:

oh you're talking about MDI with multiple pointers and cursors

this is significantly lamer than I was assuming
that's true of most things in life tho

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

ask your pharmacist if tarsier-ashpool is right for you


BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Tangentially related to that, the reason X got its name is because it was one better than the W windowing system on an operating system called V.

Someone made a port of X for the i386, and called it X386.

Then someone else made a free implementation called XFree86.

you have to admire the incredible directness of the old naming conventions.

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003


pseudorandom name posted:

oh you're talking about MDI with multiple pointers and cursors

this is significantly lamer than I was assuming

I bet you've never even stopped to admire a gravel road.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016






BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Are you talking about collaborative programming/remote pair programming? Because that's a fairly new thing, as traditionally merges are done with a VCS.

I don't remember if the multiseating in Xorg permits multiple to work on the same program, but the IRIX demo definitely had four independent mouse pointers working on different parts of the 3D object - so I don't understand what you mean by client-server programming, since the Xserver and clients are doing that part.

Absolutely not. I would never do collaborative programming or remote pair programming this way. Mostly because I don't believe in pair programming unless someone is actively teaching someone else a thing (which doesn't really fit in the pair programming paradigm but hey, some boxes have to be checked). And collaborative programming is better done independently with a well architected codebase paired with a good VCS like ... like any distributed vcs out there such as mercurial or git. I can see rare cases where multiseating programming could be helpful, but you'd really have to work at it.

The 3D modeling thing looks good... a more accessible but effective solution might be collaborative document creation or a whiteboard or other brainstorming toolkit, where people can sit in their own space and churn poo poo out but they can easily ask for help or pair with someone else to refine an idea.

Now that I think about it, live collaboration would be much harder unless the collaborators are in the same room, or unless they had some explicit training on how to do remote collaboration effectively. Because it's easier to offer or request feedback, advice, or other kinds of help if you can understand the other person's mood or mode of thinking, which typically requires reading body language.

Other than that, I think the other good solution was what someone mentioned before - a hardware dongle or a good piece of equipment that ties data and software to a specific server.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



infernal machines posted:

you have to admire the incredible directness of the old naming conventions.

I just realized I've absorbed a pattern where if something is called FreeThing I expect it to suck, but if it's called OpenThing I expect it to be at least decent.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.


NihilCredo posted:

I just realized I've absorbed a pattern where if something is called FreeThing I expect it to suck, but if it's called OpenThing I expect it to be at least decent.

what about LibreThing

Truga
May 4, 2014


Lipstick Apathy

my family was pretty poor when we were kids but us kids were all computer heads so we scrounged up a couple of cheap poo poo pcs by the mid-late 90s. my older brother somehow pieced together a good 486 with 32 megs of ram over the years and he'd run linux on it and me and my younger brother would connect to it and run apps (and a lot of freeciv matches between us 3 and our neighbours) over X from there since loving nothing except xterm worked on our lovely machines otherwise, but that way we got to see the smooth world of a high power 486 lol

so my take is X existing in network client/server form is the best loving thing ever

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003


Where did you all get 386s? All I could find in dumpsters/yardsales at that point were XT/AT clones.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



Raluek posted:

what about LibreThing

don't think I associate anything with it, sample size too small. the only one I use is libreoffice

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


NihilCredo posted:

don't think I associate anything with it, sample size too small. the only one I use is libreoffice

libressl

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003



Gentle Autist posted:

linus seems fine to me if a bit dystopian in his love of consume consume consume

he's like tim the toolman taylor but instead of loving up with power tools he's loving up with expensive computer stuff that was given to him for free

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?


Raluek posted:

what about LibreThing

trash and also unmaintained but with a tiny group of rabid adherents who think using anything else is fascism

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?


akadajet posted:

he's like tim the toolman taylor but instead of loving up with power tools he's loving up with expensive computer stuff that was given to him for free

also so far as we know he’s never rolled over on his friends to the cops

so far as we know

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007



eschaton posted:

trash and also unmaintained but with a tiny group of rabid adherents who think using anything else is fascism

agreeing for once, with libreoffice as a notable exception

Soricidus
Oct 20, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

sb hermit posted:

even that will likely change if we have to switch to 64-bit timestamps or larger.

y2k caught us by surprise, y2k38 is a pain to fix, but by god we will be prepared for y292g

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




Soricidus posted:

y2k caught us by surprise, y2k38 is a pain to fix, but by god we will be prepared for y292g
Who is "us"?
I have a vague memory of talking with people in around 1997 or 1998 who were preparing for it, and they weren't the only ones.

As far as I remember, the reason there weren't bigger problems back then is that so many companies had prepared for it.

mod saas
May 4, 2004
The Burger King Bows To Ugoff


Grimey Drawer


the world, realizing that while computer touches may be wizards they are also incredibly short-sighted

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003


y2k ready.

mod saas posted:

the world, realizing that while computer touches may be wizards they are also incredibly short-sighted

A lot of the world's paper forms were also not y2k ready.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?


I just booted MPE/V in SIMH’s HP 3000 emulator and learned that SIMH has a scripting variable for “the two- or four-digit year of the 1900s whose days line up with this year” since lots of old systems have never had Y2K mitigation

so my MPE/V system thinks it’s 1993

if QEMU’s PA-RISC support ever adds the right set of peripherals to emulate an A400/A500/rx2400, it’ll be possible to boot “modern” MPE/iX (and pretty awesome)

Agile Vector
May 21, 2007

scrum bored




College Slice

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Who is "us"?
I have a vague memory of talking with people in around 1997 or 1998 who were preparing for it, and they weren't the only ones.

As far as I remember, the reason there weren't bigger problems back then is that so many companies had prepared for it.

yep. one of my first tech jobs was archiving a bunch of interoffice communications for a regional company and they had started a few years prior, based on the carbon copies i saw

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




simh is cool as heck, but even if i know how impossible an expectation it is, i wish it was it was cycle-accurate

Khorne
May 1, 2002


when did KDE get good??? outside of not having some hotkeys set for workspace switches out of the box & having some dumb widgets I clicked "remove" on from the taskbar... it's really good. Manjaro's breath2 2021 theme is solid outside of the mid 90s themed titlebars but those are linux tradition.

sincerely, a terminal gnome3 user who got sick of it having trash performance on io limited & low power hardware.

The only bad functionality of KDE so far has been that the digital clock is unreadable on a vertical taskbar. I'm sure I will have more complaints about how workspaces work with multiple monitors if I try it on a desktop or with an external monitor. MacOS has the best implementation I've seen (each monitor has separate sets of workspaces that don't switch together). The rest of MacOS sucks though.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Nov 23, 2021

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node
Not Found:ins:




software: possibly subject to change.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Khorne
May 1, 2002


BlankSystemDaemon posted:

software: possibly subject to change.
why's the world always changing and why did no one tell me????????

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply