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Soricidus
Oct 20, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

pseudorandom name posted:

I dunno, it got uptake in the server space, but Microsoft pretty successfully murdered it in the client space (with Sun's help) until Google came along with Android.

it’s niche and you’re basically right, but desktop Java guis have always had a presence in e.g. the developer tools space (eclipse, jetbrains). and a surprising amount of specialised corporate/government stuff, i suspect I’m not the only yosposter who has played with ghidra for example

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pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

yeah, I should've said enterprise space rather than server space.

you'll see java on 50,000 corporate desktops, but you don't see it on 50,000,000 consumer desktops

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

shackleford posted:

sure but what if /usr is on a separate filesystem or has to be NFS mounted or some poo poo. you can only rely on interpreters in /bin and libraries in /lib while the system is booting

(real excuses that grognards used to give for defending using shell scripts to boot the computer :jerkbag:)

OTOH I really did need to reshuffle my flash partitions to fit python on this device

(no USB storage allowed since I need that port to connect to the microcontroller. also no hubs allowed.)

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


pseudorandom name posted:

yeah, systemd doesn't target non-Linux platforms like musl

this is actually something where "gnu/linux" actually matters because glibc isn't linux

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

the knowledge knower. a wisdom imparter. irritatingly self-assertive. odorous.

ryanrs posted:

god I hate shell scripts

there’s a reason Apple uses Darwin plus Foundation snd ObjC/Swift for loving everything

(like the lightning-to-30pin adapter, and the Touch Bar, and the Studio Display, and…)

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

the knowledge knower. a wisdom imparter. irritatingly self-assertive. odorous.

FAT32 SHAMER posted:

write a rust app to do it

someone should rewrite systemd in Rust with more proper separation of concerns

then they really can make process 2 the logging subsystem

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

the knowledge knower. a wisdom imparter. irritatingly self-assertive. odorous.

shackleford posted:

sure but what if /usr is on a separate filesystem or has to be NFS mounted or some poo poo. you can only rely on interpreters in /bin and libraries in /lib while the system is booting

(real excuses that grognards used to give for defending using shell scripts to boot the computer :jerkbag:)

that’s why just about the first thing your init system does is mount other filesystems

(the other thing it needs to do first on a small-memory system is attach swap… something I’ve had to adjust on NetBSD to get it to finish booting in 8MB on various hardware, unfortunately)

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

shackleford posted:

sure but what if /usr is on a separate filesystem or has to be NFS mounted or some poo poo. you can only rely on interpreters in /bin and libraries in /lib while the system is booting

Now that you mention it, I was thinking about having an NFS share on my server with all the Lua code, and the OpenWrt routers mount that. Right now I'm just using rsync to copy the Lua over.

Another option: fetch Lua code from the server using MQTT. A bit like TFTP over MQTT, ha ha.

You could even store the Lua sources inside the MQTT server, as retained messages.

FAT32 SHAMER
Aug 16, 2012



MQTT is probably the closest to your usecase

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

i think systemd builds on musl now? or do i remember wrong

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

pseudorandom name posted:

you'll see java on 50,000 corporate desktops, but you don't see it on 50,000,000 consumer desktops

you do these days, just because all the kids are playing minecraft lol

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

the knowledge knower. a wisdom imparter. irritatingly self-assertive. odorous.
when is the rust rewrite of systemd happening?

Clark Nova
Jul 17, 2004

Tankakern posted:

i think systemd builds on musl now? or do i remember wrong

postmarketos is working on that, so you can run alpine + systemd on your obsolete android phone

https://postmarketos.org/blog/2024/03/05/adding-systemd/

quote:

As with text editors, some people are really passionate about their favorite init systems. When discussing this announcement, please keep a friendly tone. Remember that we all share the love for free and open source software, and that our communities work best if we focus on shared values instead of fighting over what implementations to use.

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

FAT32 SHAMER posted:

MQTT is probably the closest to your usecase

MQTT as a network filesystem, topic is the path, using retained messages to store file data and directory listings.

oh my god that would be hilarious

FAT32 SHAMER
Aug 16, 2012



i think MQTT supports up to like 300mb files, so it’s not an entirely crazy thing to beam lua scripts around, no?

we use MQTT quite a bit in automotive. it’s handy!

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

Truga posted:

you do these days, just because all the kids are playing minecraft lol

sadly parents do not love their children and let them play the microtransaction infested Bedrock version instead of the moddable Java version

Well Played Mauer
Jun 1, 2003

We'll always have Cabo
can you get Java Minecraft on a console? I wanna make a server so my kid and I can play but he’s only 6 and not yet responsible enough for me to give him an actually useful device so he’s stuck on the ps5

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

of course not

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Well Played Mauer posted:

can you get Java Minecraft on a console? I wanna make a server so my kid and I can play but he’s only 6 and not yet responsible enough for me to give him an actually useful device so he’s stuck on the ps5

plug in an ancient laptop, set minecraft to start on launch, hide it behind the tv

should work fine

Elder Postsman
Aug 30, 2000


i used hot bot to search for "teens"

can't you run a bedrock server? i've got one running and my kid can connect to it from her ipad and i THINK her friend was able to join from a switch.

FAT32 SHAMER
Aug 16, 2012



Well Played Mauer posted:

can you get Java Minecraft on a console? I wanna make a server so my kid and I can play but he’s only 6 and not yet responsible enough for me to give him an actually useful device so he’s stuck on the ps5

get him an N100 micropc off alibaba for like $120

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

OK, systemd logging stuff is nice, but where's my live satellite feed for total situational awareness?

Step 1: Use Google Earth to take a snapshot of your house.
Pro tip: Set elevation exaggeration to 0.01 for an orthographic projection.

Step 2: Set the image as your terminal window background.

Step 3: Use VT100 escape sequences to render real-time sensor alerts overlaid on the map.

Printf '\e[5t' to raise the terminal window to the foreground, so you don't have to hunt for it when the audio alarms go off.

ryanrs fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jan 20, 2025

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

ryanrs posted:

OK, systemd logging stuff is nice, but where's my live satellite feed for total situational awareness?

Step 1: Use Google Earth to take a snapshot of your house.
Pro tip: Set elevation exaggeration to 0.01 for an orthographic projection.

Step 2: Set the image as your terminal window background.

Step 3: Use VT100 escape sequences to render real-time sensor alerts overlaid on the map.

Printf '\e[5t' to raise the terminal window to the foreground, so you don't have to hunt for it when the audio alarms go off.

cyberpunk thread is over there

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

dork fortress

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

the knowledge knower. a wisdom imparter. irritatingly self-assertive. odorous.

ryanrs posted:

dork fortress

Well Played Mauer
Jun 1, 2003

We'll always have Cabo
an old roommate and I used to call our house fortress poopsock in case you need to update your ssid or anything

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

if you're careful how you draw stuff, overwriting vs clearing the screen, and how your xterm interprets that, then you can use Page Up and Page Down to scroll through time and see when the alerts came in, what order, etc

it's kinda like Time Machine, ha ha

(if Time Machine's response time was your monitor's refresh interval. pgup is real fast)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

ryanrs posted:

dork fortress

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001
Ah, finally, a proper Compose key.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
but why use the f23 scancode

i use f13-f24 for custom hotkeys i don't want to have conflicts with and over the last ~10 years random poo poo keeps getting added that conflicts with that

they really need to add some scancodes like idk custom1-32 that can by spec only be used for user defined poo poo because dumbasses making all the apps can't do hotkeys correctly

shackleford
Sep 4, 2006

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Ah, finally, a proper Compose key.

does it still actually work as compose since this stupid key apparently also triggers shift and meta at the same time?

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

Truga posted:

but why use the f23 scancode

its because the hardware team doesn't talk to the kernel team

what you want to do is look at the HID Usage Table for the keys that they'll never use now

for example, since Copilot is bound to Windows-Alt-F23, you know they'll never use 1CB AL Context-aware Desktop Assistant
lock is Windows-L so they'll never use 19E AL Terminal Lock/Screensaver
the run dialog is Windows-R so they'll never use 1A0 AL Command Line Processor/Run
etc.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
lol that's actually amazing, thanks

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

on that note, i still want a keyboard with physical f13-f24 keys that isn't a 1980s relic

Clark Nova
Jul 17, 2004

the full-size apple keyboard gives you f13-f19

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Clark Nova posted:

the full-size apple keyboard gives you f13-f19

oh that's neat. but the advantage of f13-f24 would be having them as a second row on top of the f keys, where they don't get in your way but are still easy to reach

having them all the way over to the right is nowhere near as nice. still, much better than some dumb proprietary macro keys

Athas
Aug 6, 2007

fuck that joker
It would be pretty cool if there were keys you could press that would then make other keys behave differently.

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES, LTD.

can I install linux without loving up my windows bootloader yet? I just want to install it on its own drive and select it from the bios. last time I did this I had to physically remove my windows drive so it wouldn't detect it

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Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
On EFI, should be, it will usually reuse the ESP. But the safe option is always to disconnect the other drive when installing another OS, no matter which one.

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