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at this point surely it has been about commented to death
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Mar 16, 2015 21:33
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The_Franz posted:looks like kdbus will finally be merged into kernel 4.1 so applications that need fast ipc won't have to roll their own anymore. Linux: finally catching up to the 1980s
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Mar 16, 2015 22:11
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I think it might be time for my bi-annual Linux installation (got tired of win10 preview), which flavor should I try? I used arch last time at the behest of c&p but I think I might like to try something different this time how's ubuntu doing? fedora? I've been using debian and centos for work VMs but they're really not representative of a good desktop distro mint?
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Mar 17, 2015 06:10
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nah stick w/ arch if you want it to be different somehow then install different poo poo
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Mar 17, 2015 06:42
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folks im getting "p pissed" at UBUNTU GNOME needing me to goto Pulse Audio to fix my sound settings every time if ire up my lappy when I create my Personal Call Center rig. I got the X-LITE SoftPhone and VONAGE WEBAPP riunning in a XP VM and for some reason I need to janitor my MIC NOISE FLOOR OR SOMETHING and compensate by BOOSTING OUTBOUND or else its all staticy and I need to reset it as well as also UNPLUG AND REPLUG my HeadSet Mic eeyr time I open the Lid or Boot that Bitch. Ovrtall its very irritating esp if the PHONE is rining when I run into the office and I open the lid and throw my HEADSET ON and SAY HELLO? and they say "HUH?> LOTS OF STATIC DUDE" what a peice of poo poo!!!
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Mar 17, 2015 07:07
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Also sorting files and folders all FULLY hosed UP and I cant set it to remember LIST VIEW and it resets to ICON MODE with ALPHABETICAL SORT and wont remember my preference for LIST & DATE MODIFIED sort on ALL FOLDERS and also the DOCUMENTS folder isnt on the shortcut panel (thing to the left of the folder contents) WTF
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Mar 17, 2015 07:08
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Smythe posted:Also sorting files and folders all FULLY hosed UP and I cant set it to remember LIST VIEW and it resets to ICON MODE with ALPHABETICAL SORT and wont remember my preference for LIST & DATE MODIFIED sort on ALL FOLDERS and also the DOCUMENTS folder isnt on the shortcut panel (thing to the left of the folder contents) WTF which distro my friend, perhaps it is time to switch to Fedora 21
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Mar 17, 2015 07:16
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its UBUNTU GNOME !!!
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Mar 17, 2015 07:19
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there's your problem kiddo
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Mar 17, 2015 07:40
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If ubuntu Gnome is the same levels of hosed as xubuntu i quite recommend switching to fedora 21, it is actually a well polished gnome distro
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Mar 17, 2015 07:43
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so whats good about fedora 21 vs arch or something else? i was thinking of doing linux on the desktop if only because my OS X laptop broke and windows 8.1 seems to have a really weird interface and i got some malware thing a month back by visiting a shady rom site. i put an unbuntu install on a laptop and for the first time using it in like 3-4 years it sure seems like unity is basically a core part of unbuntu and all the xubuntus and such aren't really supported as well or have some shoehorned in unity support for the majority of packages carried over from unbuntu. is arch like a gentoo thing or something? i just wanna use an IDE and make shitposts and maybe play all the hottest new linux games and gentoo always seemed like it was for people with a lot of free time
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Mar 17, 2015 08:20
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also the amazon instant video thing that comes with the default install of unbuntu left me quivering with indignant nerd rage
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Mar 17, 2015 08:22
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hulu dont work on linux
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Mar 17, 2015 08:25
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i am pretty sure i can hulu on my linux
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Mar 17, 2015 08:35
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Celexi posted:i am pretty sure i can hulu on my linux like every 5th ep or some poo poo of some shows like commubity for instance have some kind of authentivfaicion or w/e that doesnt work right on linux and theres like a huge thing on how to fix it with like idk whats it called like uh idk some silverlight contrapion IDK that makes it work. FML basically is what im saying
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Mar 17, 2015 08:43
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the mouse acceleration is all hosed up in fedora 21
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Mar 17, 2015 09:14
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fixed the mouse but I have to run a script on startup. also had to do some fuckery to get steam working correctly. graphics tablet only working as a basic pointing device, but that might just be because it's an off brand thing. so far, ehhhhhh, but at least it's less work than setting up arch
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Mar 17, 2015 10:07
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Silver Alicorn posted:I think it might be time for my bi-annual Linux installation (got tired of win10 preview), which flavor should I try? I used arch last time at the behest of c&p but I think I might like to try something different this time if you auto hide the launcher thingy, ubuntu is ok
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Mar 17, 2015 10:31
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Silver Alicorn posted:fixed the mouse but I have to run a script on startup. also had to do some fuckery to get steam working correctly. graphics tablet only working as a basic pointing device, but that might just be because it's an off brand thing. so far, ehhhhhh, but at least it's less work than setting up arch My mouse is fine and all i had to do to get steam was install it from rpmfusion  i did have to add a selinux exception for dota 2 as it couldn't access some sound resource.
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Mar 17, 2015 11:52
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Marzzle posted:so whats good about fedora 21 vs arch or something else? i was thinking of doing linux on the desktop if only because my OS X laptop broke and windows 8.1 seems to have a really weird interface and i got some malware thing a month back by visiting a shady rom site. Fedora is the current least amount of janitoring required to get a recent gnome and a system not hammered together by the Ubuntu Clown Community
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Mar 17, 2015 12:14
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Why even run UBUNTU gnome? Why not just dual boot?
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Mar 17, 2015 13:06
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install a daily build of kubuntu 15.04, it has kde 5 (which owns and is a hell of a lot better than gnome 3) and systemd as of a few days ago and it works really well prerelease versions sometimes break stuff during updates but that doesnt happen much a month or so before release
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Mar 17, 2015 13:17
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Marzzle posted:so whats good about fedora 21 vs arch or something else? i was thinking of doing linux on the desktop if only because my OS X laptop broke and windows 8.1 seems to have a really weird interface and i got some malware thing a month back by visiting a shady rom site. never use ubuntu ever arch isn't a gentoo thing, it's like "here is a big pile of prebuild packages and a tool to install them, everything else is up to you". arch doesn't have releases, they just package the latest stable versions of things for the most part. if you want to run a server or do something really weird and unusual then install debian. debian isn't super up-to-date but it's incredibly flexible. use the jessie release because that's almost ready for release and it has a bunch of things like systemd in it that will make you not hate yourself if you want to run a server in a business environment then probably use centos because it's red hat enterprise linux minus the support contract. any sort of srs business linux operations run on rhel unless it's a bigass butt company like amazon or google that completely rolls their own poo poo.
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Mar 17, 2015 14:13
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Celexi posted:My mouse is fine and all i had to do to get steam was install it from rpmfusion yeah steam was complaining that it didn't have direct rendering, I had to delete a couple of its local libraries and install the fedora versions. what kind of graphics card are you using? mine's an nvidia the mouse problem might be a logitech thing, it seems to have been around a while too. I have to change the device properties with xinput but then it's fine. I tried updating the system with the gui software updater, but somehow it didn't acknowledge the updates were applied, and kept telling me to update but then giving an error that the packages were already installed. running a yum update fixed it though. nice OS you got here 
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Mar 17, 2015 16:17
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use fedora. arch is run by insufferable idiots who will break their os all the time and blame it on you for not following the wiki rss feed. it also requires you do to a lot of work to get a polished out of the box experience that does nothing but expose how poo poo we are at building a lot of these low-level components. also arch users most always use it simply so they can tell you how elite they are for using arch linux, and rarely want to actually use their computer. yospos as gently caress, i know. fedora is run by people who mostly care about usability and stability, with some very major exceptions. they won't break your machine a lot of the time, unless you have selinux enabled, because literally nobody ever tests things with selinux on, since they all get really frustrated and turn it off eventually. the people running abrt/setroubleshootd/yum/dnf are coming to our side, since while i was at red hat i actually sat down with them and tried to teach them basic ui principles, and they seemed to get it. the rest of the team had given up, but they seemed eager to listen and learn this time around. i guess a few years of literally everybody yelling at you can do that.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:44
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Silver Alicorn posted:I tried updating the system with the gui software updater, but somehow it didn't acknowledge the updates were applied, and kept telling me to update but then giving an error that the packages were already installed. running a yum update fixed it though. nice OS you got here because the baseos team is loving brilliant, yum is a giant bunch of python that's written by sysadmins and it's hard to use from other programs since you have to fork out to it and scrape the output. yum also manages its own package db and it's super loving slow and you can't even do a search for other package names while it's downloading one package, because it decides it wants to lock the whole database whenever it's run so you can't even read it. yum is trash. we've had many chances to rewrite it, but it came down to politics (see: razor, zif) that the projects were cancelled. at some point, a new employee on the baseos team decided that they wanted to rewrite it, and actually use a library suse wrote, which, of course, immediately got shut down. and then he released it, said it was yum-compatible, and it was faster and didn't have all of this, and it was backed by a c library that others could use. baseos tried to shut it down, but it caught on too much and higher management overrode them saying their customers wanted it. so now we have a fork of yum, "dnf" (originally stood for "did not finish", since it was a weekend hack), which is backed by a c library, maintains its own smarter database, and is much faster. not as fast as razor, keep in mind, but still fast. and that's the backend that the software ui uses. it is very possible for the dnf and yum databases to get out of sync, and plenty of people working on making dnf deal better with wacky scenarios, but basically, never ever ever use yum, always use dnf.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:51
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Mr Dog posted:a bigass butt
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Mar 17, 2015 17:04
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Suspicious Dish posted:so now we have a fork of yum, "dnf" (originally stood for "did not finish", since it was a weekend hack), which is backed by a c library, maintains its own smarter database, and is much faster. not as fast as razor, keep in mind, but still fast. and that's the backend that the software ui uses. it is very possible for the dnf and yum databases to get out of sync, and plenty of people working on making dnf deal better with wacky scenarios, but basically, never ever ever use yum, always use dnf. is yum itself the reason that eg 'yum update' is so slow? i'd always assumed the bottleneck was elsewhere like seriously apt update+upgrade knocks its loving pants off
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Mar 17, 2015 17:10
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there's plenty of bottlenecks all around, with both yum and rpm written badly.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:19
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Suspicious Dish posted:arch is run by insufferable idiots who will break their os all the time and blame it on you for not following the wiki rss feed. it also requires you do to a lot of work to get a polished out of the box experience that does nothing but expose how poo poo we are at building a lot of these low-level components. also arch users most always use it simply so they can tell you how elite they are for using arch linux, and rarely want to actually use their computer. yospos as gently caress, i know. probably, but i've been using Arch since November and it worksforme otoh if there's an inherent toxic attitude of casual breakage then it's probably only a matter of time i guess. pacman is lightning fast though. pacstrapping a new system literally took me less than a minute on my new laptop. i guess it depends on why you use linux. for me it's not directly about muh freedoms, more that proprietary software in practice is user-hostile and will poo poo on your face at every opportunity (hi would you like some Ask Jeeves malware? course you do, it makes us money!!). i'm willing to put up with a bit of occasional breakage if it means that my computer isn't actively trying to gently caress me over. it's not just a windows thing either, coworkers use osx and any time there's some Adobe poo poo installed it does the same sort of thing.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:22
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opensuse for ever and ever, amen
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Mar 17, 2015 17:35
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there's something a little weird about the liberation fonts but I can't put my finger on it
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Mar 17, 2015 17:39
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i use linux because it's fun to work on. i enjoy writing the code and poking into low-level systems poo poo. the application ecosystem is still poo poo and the community is trash and i don't honestly see any way of improving it imo the community just has so many thoughts that are just incompatible with large-scale adoption, and it's hard to try to tell them that sometimes. systemd is really succeeding in a way i never thought possible, by just blasting through convincing people it's a good idea by breaking down their misconceptions and showing a better way of doing things, and i think a lot of people hate it at first and then grow to really love it. but linux, even down to the kernel, is just hardcoded not to be a desktop os in so many tiny ways that it's frustrating to deal with.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:46
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Dolomite posted:opensuse for ever and ever, amen nice troll
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Mar 17, 2015 17:55
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I built an arch system a bit ago - at the time I hadn't even installed a linux in probably five years and didn't even know it existed. But I had a set of requirements and older hardware, and even attempted I think Fedora and a couple of others first, but ultimately I couldn't get all I wanted done with other distros. The main reason I chose it is I wanted full disk encryption with a key synched to it, and none of the other systems gave me that option. I wouldn't use Arch unless it was a system I didn't mind being broken from time to time, and expecting it to require some work to configure. If you need the flexibility of a linux from scratch with much less effort it's a good choice. I mean, I can't see any reasonable use cases for say, slackware, but Arch has its uses. For most uses there are easier choices like Debian / Centos or whatever most suits your wants.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:17
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Suspicious Dish posted:i use linux because it's fun to work on. i enjoy writing the code and poking into low-level systems poo poo. […] for example, using something for the sake of changing how it works is incompatible with large-scale adoption
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Mar 17, 2015 18:25
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i don't necessarily believe that. in fact, i think the exact opposite is true: you need to be able to make changes that are in the long-run better but cause short-term pain. i don't care if i piss off 100 users if it helps me get 100,000 users as long as i make it perfectly clear why i'm doing this and why i think there are advantages. concrete example: right now, the kernel very much hardcodes the assumption that you want to see the text terminal, and so anytime anything shuts down, it always flips back to that. fixing that will break some cases where people rely on being able to killall -9 X and get back to a terminal immediately, which will piss off a lot of people, but make it entirely possible to have smooth login transitions / logout transitions / poweroff transitions without ever seeing ugly text blink on your screen for a split second. thankfully, we worked around this in a grand way with logind, but fixing the kernel would be the ultimate win here.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:34
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gnome has a level of attention to detail and aesthetics that every other open source desktop environment seems to lack, kde 5 is only beginning to look like something other than disgusting plastic trash the stack underpinning gnome is really sw8 too, although that's more for me to nerd out about than actually helping get poo poo done. unfortunately the aspects of the stack that permit applications to get written still suck; writing Gtk applications in C is extremely painful, Vala isn't really a solution until it gets ported to LLVM and gets an actual native compiler and debugger support, and i mean i guess you could write apps in Python if that's your thing but then you have to write a lot of interop code if you're doing anything native. maybe gnome builder will make the app development story a little less poo poo (i threw some money at this because it looked cool). also yeah the belligerent push to cram systemd and dbus everywhere actually makes poo poo automatable, before that you had crappy stringbashing scripts trying to poorly mechanise the job of a system operator using vi and there were no standards or consistency anywhere. introspection of the system? forget it. you had to have a god daemon that owned the entire system's configuration text file directory structure if you wanted to rely on any knowledge of the system and obviously that's just horrible design so nobody really succeeded at that. systemd was a huge win.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:45
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Silver Alicorn posted:yeah steam was complaining that it didn't have direct rendering, I had to delete a couple of its local libraries and install the fedora versions. what kind of graphics card are you using? mine's an nvidia i am using nvidia with the 346 drivers, i even copy pasted my steam folder from my previous os(linux mint) and it worked out of the box. and yeah the software manager gui can be weird.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:45
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Marzzle posted:so whats good about fedora 21 vs arch or something else? i was thinking of doing linux on the desktop if only because my OS X laptop broke and windows 8.1 seems to have a really weird interface and i got some malware thing a month back by visiting a shady rom site. ubuntu is poo poo, and not even worth considering fedora advantages over arch: 1. it's not a rolling release. whatever you install will be supported for a year, period. you may or may not see this as an advantage. 2. fedora is determined to have new desktop stuff first. it's literally their motto: “Freedom, Friends, Features, First”
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Mar 17, 2015 19:04
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