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it is pretty telling how little progress linux shells and terminals have made over the past 20 years considering they remain a main draw of the platform otoh the desktop environment have pretty much actively devolved over the last 10 so they are still effectively keeping pace
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Mar 14, 2016 11:53
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bash scripts rule everything around me.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:18
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b0red posted:bash scripts rule everything around me. god drat it should obviously be bash rules everything around me you idiot how could you gently caress that up?????
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Mar 14, 2016 16:29
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B.S.R.E.A.M.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:36
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$DOLLA_BILLS
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Mar 14, 2016 16:40
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:god drat it should obviously be bash rules everything around me you idiot gently caress but really. i've been writing a bunch of bash scripts to help automate our image builds. hasn't been v fun
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Mar 14, 2016 17:17
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b0red posted:
b0red posted:hasn't been v fun not sure what to tell you
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Mar 14, 2016 17:20
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As a guy who has been writing bash scripts for work for 10+ years (among many other languages) gently caress bash. Yeah it's ok, but it's a gigantic mess of regex, and lovely string handling.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:29
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Use bash to write one-liners to solve trivial problems or invoke things that would take ages to do manually. For actual scripting use an actual scripting language. Python works pretty well for me these days.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:37
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ratbert90 posted:a gigantic mess of regex, and lovely string handling. The Unix Philosophy™
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Mar 14, 2016 17:47
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:it is pretty telling how little progress linux shells and terminals have made over the past 20 years considering they remain a main draw of the platform the Macintosh Programmer’s Workshop was more advanced 29 years ago than UNIX terminal emulators are today you work in a real and complete text editor, you execute the command on the current line by typing command-return or enter, its output is inserted in the document starting with the line immediately after the command, and you can also execute arbitrary selections as commands not just complete lines there are also commands that can manipulate the development environment itself to add & remove menu items, bind keystrokes, manipulate text selections, and so on since the editor and the command line were one, you could do things like have a command line to generate and format a data set in a C comment, and then use that immediately to actually put the generated data in the file after the comment the only more advanced command line environment I’ve ever seen was Symbolics Genera, where everything was a “presentation” of some underlying live object with which you could directly interact
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Mar 14, 2016 17:58
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an elegant tool for a more civilized age
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Mar 14, 2016 18:19
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Truga posted:Use bash to write one-liners to solve trivial problems or invoke things that would take ages to do manually. I've been doing a nice mix of python and bash but gently caress bash
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Mar 14, 2016 18:35
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b0red posted:I've been doing a nice mix of python and bash but gently caress bash
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Mar 14, 2016 18:36
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eschaton posted:you work in a real and complete text editor, you execute the command on the current line by typing command-return or enter, its output is inserted in the document starting with the line immediately after the command, and you can also execute arbitrary selections as commands not just complete lines oh hey you just described emacs
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Mar 14, 2016 20:00
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BobHoward posted:that's kind of a feature tho, nipple mice are piss garbage for idiots no, trackpads are piss garbage for idiots there is no single good trackpad in the history of technology they are all complete dumpster fires except for the crapple one which is merely garbage nipple mice are the best mouse type for laptops short of bringing an actual mouse
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Mar 14, 2016 21:04
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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i prefer to use a joystick as a pointer or a duck shooting gun sometimes
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Mar 14, 2016 21:05
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i have a thinkpad x1 carbon and i had to completely disable the touchpad, its terrible luckily the clit mouse is just as good as my old x61
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Mar 14, 2016 21:19
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apple trackpad supremacy even on linux
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Mar 14, 2016 23:31
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Celexi posted:i prefer to use a joystick as a pointer or a duck shooting gun sometimes I would genuinely choose either of those over a nipple mouse
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Mar 15, 2016 00:29
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:it is pretty telling how little progress linux shells and terminals have made over the past 20 years considering they remain a main draw of the platform terminals and shells have rolled backwards. xterm is less good than a vt520. bash is less good than ksh93. when it came time to modernize, and re-do 1970s tty infrastructure for window systems, people only implemented what users asked for. nobody really needed the crazy features in a vt520 or ksh93. licensing and ease of implementation turned out to be a lot more important than the features dreamed up by commercial entities of the 1980s.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:25
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:terminals and shells have rolled backwards. xterm is less good than a vt520. bash is less good than ksh93. So what are some of the cool features we are missing out on these days? genuinely curious b0red fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 14:43
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:terminals and shells have rolled backwards. xterm is less good than a vt520. bash is less good than ksh93. Wasn't there a VT420 terminal program for X11 a while back? I remember using it for our VAX systems.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:01
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b0red posted:So what are some of the cool features we are missing out on these days? genuinely curious don't get too excited. on the shell side it's not that cool. ksh93 had an actual debugger that could print stack traces and stuff. nicer editor than bash's readline. it had lexical scoping. (although, bash might have added that at some point.) in terminals, holy poo poo, what couldn't the final generation do. line drawing. vector graphics. bitmap graphics. fonts. local storage. tons of cool poo poo. none of that is very important if you have a local workstation with a window system, though -- why build graphics into xterm when you can just run a second application? why have local storage built into the tty subsystem when your user already owns a large fraction of the remote disk?
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Mar 16, 2016 00:02
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Soricidus posted:oh hey you just described emacs yeah the emacs will do everything mpw ever did and then some (and you can run it in a system with preemptive multitasking and memory protection. whoa.)
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Mar 16, 2016 00:05
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please note that emacs does not support multitasking
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Mar 16, 2016 00:06
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pseudorandom name posted:please note that emacs does not support multitasking it supports multitasking exactly as well as macos did. which is to say, very badly. nobody uses that poo poo. instead you create subprocesses in the underlying OS, and let a modern unix handle all the lovely stuff for you.
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Mar 16, 2016 00:10
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:don't get too excited. on the shell side it's not that cool. ksh93 had an actual debugger that could print stack traces and stuff. nicer editor than bash's readline. it had lexical scoping. (although, bash might have added that at some point.) they had a whole set of tooling around building houses out of their own baked poo poo cool we have actual scripting languages in the modern era btw. they have debuggers too quote:in terminals, holy poo poo, what couldn't the final generation do. line drawing. vector graphics. bitmap graphics. fonts. local storage. tons of cool poo poo. ok so what's your point we used to do it crappily now we do it better?
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Mar 16, 2016 00:34
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re: terminal chat is it possible for a server to configure an xterm client to use 'raw'-mode? so that the client xterm sends characters as their typed, or, at least without requiring the client to press enter?
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Mar 16, 2016 00:53
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Mr Dog posted:they had a whole set of tooling around building houses out of their own baked poo poo my point is that measuring the progress of shells and terminal emulators is a really bad way to assess the total utility of the platform those individual things are objectively less featureful than they were 20 years ago, but the platform is substantially better in important ways
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Mar 16, 2016 01:14
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Barnyard Protein posted:re: terminal chat in the terminal attributes flip the ICANON bit to turn off canonical mode and set VMIN to 1. you can now use read() to get individual characters as they are input
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Mar 16, 2016 01:16
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The_Franz posted:in the terminal attributes flip the ICANON bit to turn off canonical mode and set VMIN to 1. you can now use read() to get individual characters as they are input thanks!
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Mar 16, 2016 01:20
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quote:In The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams mentions an extremely dull planet, inhabited by a bunch of depressed humans and a certain breed of animals with sharp teeth which communicate with the humans by biting them very hard in the thighs. This is strikingly similar to UNIX, http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/
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Mar 17, 2016 16:44
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if terminals had kept up progress we would have had a ton of applications that looked like ipython notebooks in the present day instead you can't resize a terminal without most likely loving up its raw text contents
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Mar 17, 2016 17:12
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:if terminals had kept up progress we would have had a ton of applications that looked like ipython notebooks in the present day IPython notebooks are just a pale imitation of Mathematica notebooks and Mathematica notebooks, despite Wolfram claiming everything to do with Mathematica sprang fully-formed from his gigantic brain with no contributions from elsewhere, are just a pale imitation of Symbolics Genera’s standard command line interface
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Mar 17, 2016 18:04
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:if terminals had kept up progress we would have had a ton of applications that looked like ipython notebooks in the present day but we do have a ton of applications that look like ipython notebooks. all of them are targeted at developers. ipython + numpy, jupyter, intellij, spark notebook, etc. it's not because terminals didn't keep up. its because most people hate CLIs
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Mar 18, 2016 01:22
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:but we do have a ton of applications that look like ipython notebooks. all of them are targeted at developers. ipython + numpy, jupyter, intellij, spark notebook, etc. ipython is jupyter, numpy is a library, IntelliJ is an ide and spark notebook is Scala notebook is ipython
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Mar 18, 2016 07:56
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these three ipython products are suspiciously ipython like -nbsd
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Mar 18, 2016 07:57
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not that ipython and its brethren aren't fantastic because they are and they will be the well deserved heel that grinds Mathematica into the dust
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Mar 18, 2016 07:59
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ahmeni posted:these three ipython products are suspiciously ipython like -nbsd would you rather that people just built new things instead of building on prior work? a cool and new-ish model came along and it's being used for all kinds of stuff
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Mar 19, 2016 00:10
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