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i mean that phenomenon does seem intuitive to me. why would kids care about directories if they're not computer touchers nowadays?
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Jan 17, 2022 21:05
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Ocean of Milk posted:Having opened a js/ts thing in vscode recently I was pleasantly surprised to find that it actually has "go to definition/ Implementation/references thing" and that sometimes it even works. The fact that the windows command shell doesn't implement full regexp functionality and in fact alters it slightly from standard automatically makes it inferior to Linux by default.
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Jan 17, 2022 23:15
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the standard is posix regexes which is garbage that no one likes, and is on top of that poorly enough specifies to vary wildly between implementations.
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Jan 17, 2022 23:21
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Perl is the de-facto standard for regexp. Powershell greatly conforms, grep has a -P switch to complement -E, and perl itself is available on most Linux installs. You can spend about an hour and learn enough perl to fully replace sed and awk in the commandline, or if this is for work you can not be a bastard and write a readable python script using perl regular expressions.
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Jan 18, 2022 00:04
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The Wisest Moron posted:The fact that the windows command shell doesn't implement full regexp functionality and in fact alters it slightly from standard automatically makes it inferior to Linux by default.
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Jan 18, 2022 00:08
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Because of the nature of my work and the machines I'm working on, a lot of stuff I write has to work with stock Windows 7 utilities. It's sometimes very maddening, but it does put a stop on spiraling dependency issues at least.
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Jan 18, 2022 00:12
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mystes posted:It's deprecated oh poo poo I just filled in for "powershell" there.
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Jan 18, 2022 00:13
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SYSV Fanfic posted:Computers have kinda made the metaphor irrelevant/anachronistic. Most young people have never seen a massive filing room where everybody has to follow a filing system or stuff gets lost. My dad was a cable splicer and he had a filing cabinet with his own system for managing his affairs. I’m in my 40s and I’ve never seen a “filing room” or learned a “filing system”. the metaphor has never been particularly strong (even unix filesystems don’t bear much resemblance to a physical cabinet) and I don’t think it matters search is good (unless you’re windows lol) and files need to be taught
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Jan 18, 2022 00:15
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Soricidus posted:I’m in my 40s and I’ve never seen a “filing room” or learned a “filing system”. the metaphor has never been particularly strong (even unix filesystems don’t bear much resemblance to a physical cabinet) and I don’t think it matters You never used a card catalogue?
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Jan 18, 2022 00:17
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SYSV Fanfic posted:You never used a card catalogue?
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Jan 18, 2022 00:18
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SYSV Fanfic posted:You never used a card catalogue? used in any real capacity? no was exposed to early on in grade school under the guise of it being critical life information that, like cursive, was already extremely obsolete by the time i was in high school? yes
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Jan 18, 2022 00:23
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The Wisest Moron posted:Because of the nature of my work and the machines I'm working on, a lot of stuff I write has to work with stock Windows 7 utilities. powerful curse
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Jan 18, 2022 00:29
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The Wisest Moron posted:Because of the nature of my work and the machines I'm working on, a lot of stuff I write has to work with stock Windows 7 utilities. It's sometimes very maddening, but it does put a stop on spiraling dependency issues at least.
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Jan 18, 2022 00:31
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clearly linux can appeal to the zoomers by getting rid of the antiquated filesystem metaphor and doubling down on using y and d to copy and cut text
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Jan 18, 2022 00:36
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mystes posted:PowerShell is built in and uses .net regular expressions which are perl style I'm pretty sure powershell didn't get built in until Windows 10. I'll have to double check. I probably could get away with adding it, I just like bitching about windows.
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Jan 18, 2022 00:56
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The_Franz posted:used in any real capacity? no Congrats, you were exposed to the concept of a filing system.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:11
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The Wisest Moron posted:I'm pretty sure powershell didn't get built in until Windows 10. I'll have to double check.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:13
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even if you're missing some commands in an older verison of ps, alot of stuff can be done by just accessing .net classes directly.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:15
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just put tumbleweed on a new thinkpad and everything just works. even the recent realtek wifi adapter. coming primarily from rhel and fedora, both yast and snapper seem cool. linux is good. even german linux is good.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:33
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Lady Radia posted:i mean that phenomenon does seem intuitive to me. why would kids care about directories if they're not computer touchers nowadays? I think people are just utterly astonished at how quickly it's changed. Best Bi Geek Squid posted:clearly linux can appeal to the zoomers by getting rid of the antiquated filesystem metaphor and doubling down on using y and d to copy and cut text
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Jan 18, 2022 01:37
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It's been the trend since forever. The only system I ever used that utilized files/folders over a query-able indexed database was in college. All your information was stored in a formatted text file at the bottom of a hierarchy ten layers deep.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:58
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SYSV Fanfic posted:You never used a card catalogue? I saw a card catalog along the wall in my college library, but idk why I’d have used it when the computer terminal was right there, and I don’t remember it looking much like a directory structure
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Jan 18, 2022 02:28
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Soricidus posted:I saw a card catalog along the wall in my college library, but idk why I’d have used it when the computer terminal was right there
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Jan 18, 2022 02:30
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Computers are going back to what they used to be, a tool for nerds and nothing else. So many people nowadays don' t have a computer, they just use their phone for everything so it's not surprising that this new generation don't know how to use them properly. It's fine even if it is weird to us aging geeks.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:34
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Soricidus posted:I saw a card catalog along the wall in my college library, but idk why I’d have used it when the computer terminal was right there, and I don’t remember it looking much like a directory structure Sure bub, sure.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:35
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Kamrat posted:Computers are going back to what they used to be, a tool for nerds and nothing else. So many people nowadays don' t have a computer, they just use their phone for everything so it's not surprising that this new generation don't know how to use them properly. It's fine even if it is weird to us aging geeks. I should make sites that only work on computers
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Jan 18, 2022 02:56
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Don't understand why familiarity with library card catalogues is especially helpful when the defining characteristic of computer filesystems is that items can be nested arbitrarily deeply You might as well ask whether people have ever put sheets of paper into ringbinder files, or books on different shelves. The analogy to a computer fs is equally poor in all cases
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Jan 18, 2022 03:00
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Kamrat posted:Computers are going back to what they used to be, a tool for nerds and nothing else. So many people nowadays don' t have a computer, they just use their phone for everything so it's not surprising that this new generation don't know how to use them properly. It's fine even if it is weird to us aging geeks. i will gladly accept the job security
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Jan 18, 2022 03:07
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It's not an analogy. It's an example of a filing system. Cards are put into order according to criteria. The dewey decimal system at your library is a filing system as well as a classification system. When you start putting 10k pages in a binder, you're going to want to have a system in place for how they are inserted, otherwise you won't be able to find them. Most young people have never needed to quickly find information in a room with 10K+ paper records. They've always been able to ask a computer to find it for them. BTW there are computer file systems without a tree structure.
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Jan 18, 2022 03:35
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remember winfs lol
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Jan 18, 2022 03:37
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Amethyst posted:remember winfs lol
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Jan 18, 2022 04:16
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mystes posted:That's not true although the version installed by default in windows 7 may be slightly older unless they changed that in an update. Yup, turns out you're right. I'm an idiot lol.
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Jan 18, 2022 04:22
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The Wisest Moron posted:The fact that the windows command shell doesn't implement full regexp functionality and in fact alters it slightly from standard automatically makes it inferior to Linux by default. what do you mean “alters it slightly from standard” though the Windows command shell syntax is the MS-DOS command shell syntax the MS-DOS command shell syntax is the CP/M command shell syntax, with \ as a directory delimiter the CP/M command shell syntax is the TOPS-10 command shell syntax
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Jan 18, 2022 06:28
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also I want someone to make a modern thing using MPE style hierarchy to see what kinds of brains it breaks: FILE.DIRECTORY[.ACCOUNT[.USER]] where an “account” is kind of like a UNIX group so you might have FY22Q2.PROJECTIONS.SALES.ESCHATON as a personal (rather than shared) file containing the Sales account’s projections for FY2022 Q2 the POSIX compatibility layer could turn that into /sales/projections/eschaton/fy22q2 or something along those lines automatically, but you could also add your own mappings via a “symlink” from the MPE path syntax to the desired POSIX syntax it’s weird
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Jan 18, 2022 06:38
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HP also used comma as their argument separator, with lots of use of keyword=value style arguments and space-separated lists like RU,NEWUSR,ESCHATON,ACCOUNTS=SALES MANAGEMENT to run the NEWUSR program with the two given arguments I think the executed program just got the arguments as text like UNIX though, not parsed into keyword/value pairs or lists or anything (though there may have been intrinsics (syscalls) to do so)
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Jan 18, 2022 06:43
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eschaton posted:HP also used comma as their argument separator, with lots of use of keyword=value style arguments and space-separated lists must have been a mainframe convention, z/os has something similar with mvs commands, like to start websphere you have to run START BBO5DCR,JOBNAME=BBODMGR,ENV=PLEX1.PLEX1.BBODMGR
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Jan 18, 2022 06:48
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eschaton posted:what do you mean “alters it slightly from standard” though Sorry, when I said non-standard I basically just meant it didn't match what I was used to in Unix, and the base level had less functionality than I was used to on most stock unix installs with base permissions I've used. I was wrong about the reason I stopped using it though. Had to check my notes ^^. It had some extra hoops I couldn't automate away easily with the end user so I found other options that worked out of the box. Minimal janitorial, minimal likely hood of calls at 3am.
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Jan 18, 2022 08:49
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mystes posted:Your library must have had the catalog digitized very early. I'm not in my 40s yet and I had to use card catalogs for a few years. i guess? it was a clunky text mode terminal thing, probably running over telnet. felt old-fashioned at the time.
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Jan 18, 2022 09:34
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bring back khttpd
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Jan 18, 2022 10:10
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Soricidus posted:i guess? it was a clunky text mode terminal thing, probably running over telnet. felt old-fashioned at the time. the public library having the above was great. it was very fast and very easy to use, unlike the modern web thing that replaced it. plus, in the era before most libraries had their catalog online, i felt like a real hacker for telnetting into the library catalog to see if they had my book from home, and putting it on hold if they didnt, lol
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Jan 18, 2022 11:03
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