|
Sapozhnik posted:system76 is kind of a lovely actor in the linux space
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 01:15
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 20:16 |
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:"open source" itself is a corporate neologism designed to domesticate the free software movement and counter some of its more anti-capitalist tendencies
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 01:19
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:"open source" itself is a corporate neologism designed to domesticate the free software movement and counter some of its more anti-capitalist tendencies SYSV Fanfic posted:Looking at system 76's website I'm left with one question: Will hardwood panels replace tempered glass in hi tech fashion? My HAF 912 is still chugging along, but the black quasi-militaristic aesthetic makes me feel pretty dated, kinda like an avacado green fridge. that being said, i do think there's room for a lot more interesting designs than exist in the current market
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 01:29
|
|
|
finally you're talking sense!
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 22:16
|
|
|
lol cabal
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 22:41
|
|
|
I'm insomniac and bored out of my mind, so have a lot of  I think there's a fundamental bit of philosophy that a lot of copyleft proponents miss (intentional or not, though I think it's mostly the latter), which is that to a lot of people working on copyfree licenses (not just BSD or MIT, but all of them), the important part isn't that someone else contributes back, that they get kick-backs, or any of a number of other reasons that copyleft proponents often talk about. Instead, it's that there should be at least one good implementation of something that should be available for everyone to use, instead of everyone having to implement their own thing - in the same vein that everyone isn't expected to be able to correctly implement cryptography. In the specific cases of Microsoft and Apple, there's some history there that I'm sure there are lot of people that don't know about, so here's the short of it: Microsoft didn't "steal" the FreeBSD stack. Spider Systems (based, at the time, in Edinburgh and which has since been swallowed up by Intel) was a company that Microsoft contracted to develop a TCP as well as a STREAMS (the native UNIX System 5 networking) stack(s). Since it's proprietary, not a whole lot is known, but from what I remember at the time, a pre-release version of one of the early products at one point got released/leaked, which didn't have symbols stripped - and from that it was learned that the TCP stack had FreeBSD headers, and a few of the userland utilities (such as tracert) had a FreeBSD license embedded in them). This, combined with Microsofts use of FreeBSD for Hotmail (because the company that owned Hotmail before Microsoft bought it used FreeBSD, until Microsoft made ISS capable of handling the load for the servers, some 5 years later) as well as the Windows Update servers, led to rumours of Microsoft using a lot more code than there's ever been any actual evidence for. As for macOS, that's got an even longer history. It all, predictably enough, starts with NeXT. For reasons forgotten to history, it integrated part of BSD out of CSRG with a Mach kernel. Then, NeXT did its NeXT thing and Steve Jobs ended up at Apple with a lot of the people who'd worked on NeXT. This led to what would eventually end up becoming Mac OS X, which was itself a remarkable shift away from Classic Mac OS, which would, partly because of previous experiments with Linux in the form of MkLinux, also not just have POSIX compatibility, but full on SUS compliance (because that was still somewhat of a selling point at that particular time). So since the developers responsible were already familiar with the Mach kernel and BSD subsystems, they yoinked code from the biggest descendant of BSD (which was and is FreeBSD), hired some of FreeBSDs developers (Jordan Hubbard being the most prominent, but others too, as well as several others later on and even as recent as just a few years ago). This leaves the question of what FreeBSD code is in macOS - and perhaps more importantly, how much of it is used. Firstly, there's a bunch of command-line userland tools (although many have been modified by Apple subsequent to being imported, and others either have been replaced or are being replaced with copyfree-alternatives). I honestly don't think these count for much, since only powerusers tend to use these, and while Apple is popular among powerusers, there are far more regular users who simply don't use the terminal. Then there's the parts of the kernel, where there are three "big" uses: the netstack (as mentioned elsewhere, because it really has been used widely), the process model, and the VFS. Obviously, the process model and VFS get used all the time, and the netstack is hardly not going to see use considering almost nobody uses any system today without networking. However, even all-told, those three parts still only account for a tiny part of XNU, and the userland utilities are only a tiny part of Darwin. There's also the elephant in the room, which is all the parts that make up macOS, which aren't part of Darwin: The entire UX in the form of Quartz (including compositing), things like Metal, Core(Video|Audio|Image|Animation|OpenGl|Graphics), the entire driver interface as well as every single driver, and too many other things to mention (if you're really curious, there's a CCC talk by "Lucy" from 2007 called Inside the Mac OS X kernel which provides more detail). Now, what has Microsoft given back, monetarily? Who knows. Probably not much. As for code, around 1300 commits - although depending on how cynical you are, you can either view this as a good thing or Microsoft having customers on their Hyper-V cloud who want to use FreeBSD. To me, it can go either way, honestly - I'll take Microsoft commits just as readily as I'll take those of anyone else, but I don't think they're doing it purely out of the goodness of their hearts (they're a big corporation, and while they have individuals who're good, it's a difficult thing to mesh). So what about Apple? Well, they haven't really sponsored much code (though that's perhaps because nobody's interested in picking through the huge changesets that result from them offering only date-based snapshots of Darwin with no VCS information). But they have given back, in the form of sponsoring a lot of conferences over the years (as in, sometimes being the primary sponsor), plus they've been instrumental in things like TrustedBSD (which has given us OpenBSM for auditing, MAC for RBAC et cetera, OpenPAM plus a bunch more things that I'm not sure Apple has been directly involved with). Oh, and they're also the primary reason why FreeBSD is almost GPL free because of LLVM - without that, FreeBSD and a lot of other software developers would still be dependent on the monoculture of GCC - and even if GCC has been enormously helpful, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the best thing to happen to GCC was that it got some competition. (I think over 8000 bytes is enough words)
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2021 04:07
|
|
|
Did you read what I posted, or just picked out a few phrases here and there? Because you're the one who asked. EDIT: Or are you just being intentionally obtuse and refusing to acknowledge that even if somehow, magically, there was nothing but copyleft software as an alternative to proprietary software, there's still legal compliance which can and does affect whether or not any copyleft software can be used? BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Nov 26, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2021 04:42
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:I obviously read every word. Personally I think it's really lovely of apple they can't even toss $5 or $10k to the freebsd foundation annually. Microsoft still does. BobHoward posted:fyi the process model is mach tasks, not bsd Ocean of Milk posted:What specififcally do you mean by that? Examples? Other industries with legal compliance are telecommunications, the medicinal industry and the industry around delivering software to the armed forces - all of which I don't know specifics, but I know that people who work on the BSDs have been hired by subcontractors of those, because they worked on the BSDs. One thing they all have in common is that they're required by law or contract to keep things secret. Needless to say, none of it is verifiable, but that's the nature of these things.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:Real talk: In the several decades I have been using Linux on my desktop, sound has never been an issue. Especially after kernel 2.4 (when OSS was replaced with ALSA and you could play sound from multiple sources AT THE SAME TIME!!!!) BobHoward posted:linux style package management is unironically the #1 reason why linux can't have good software infernal machines posted:windows has the microsoft store. Microsoft have, for the longest time, had the technology ready to do proper third-party software repositories in the form of NuGet (which gets used by Chocolatey), but it's only until recently they've started doing sensible things with Microsoft Store. So I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time before they stop doing that.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 28, 2021 20:35
|
|
|
mystes posted:The microsoft store isn't even really a package manager anymore because now, in addition to packaged non-sandboxed win32 applications, it can install arbitrary programs that can't even be updated through the store, which I think is a dumb idea, but they decided that that was the trick to get more people to use it, I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 28, 2021 23:00
|
|
|
Mr. Crow posted:What if I'm installing random crap from the Debian repo and "getting raw dogged"?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 28, 2021 23:21
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:if your package system contains scripts its a piece of poo poo
|
|
#
¿
Nov 29, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:cgroups v2 now!
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
Phobeste posted:no, it's not. no matter what you're building for the love of god do not have a workflow where artifacts get built on a random loving developer laptop and deployed directly. come on if it's good enough for them, why is it not good enough for you?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? Deployment happens in a pipeline, no random loving developer laptop get's to deploy anything Poopernickel posted:just use SSH and tunnel everything mawarannahr posted:has anyone used mosh? is it worth it? would IT kill me? so if you're on a train while using WWAN, basically
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2021 22:34
|
|
|
nudgenudgetilt posted:does that even matter any more? I was holding open an ssh tcp connection through the sf subway, transbay tube, and all that poo poo a decade ago with umts/hsdpa. but connectivity has gotten a lot better for the most part the only other use-case for mosh i know of is the way i heard about it originally, with someone being trapped in an elevator
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2021 12:34
|
|
|
imagine that i posted a flowchart with the question "are you a hyperscaler" leading to a boolean where yes is "use kubernetes" and no is "don't use kubernetes".
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2021 18:44
|
|
|
Poopernickel posted:The pendulum will swing away from containers within the next 4 years, guaranteed.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
oldie but goodie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:And the cloud was just called "time sharing".
|
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2021 14:08
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:tfw you have a list of codes in a text file and you want to find all files that contain any of them, so you do: same thing happened to GNU ls - and both of them ended up being ported to BSD grep and BSD ls because they were so commonly used that people kept asking about them later on, these options also started being added to speed things up - for example `find <expr> -exec grep <expr2> {} +` being used as a weird incantation of magic characters, instead of piping to xargs because it used to be faster than using piping, instead of you know making pipes faster same weird optimization philosophy also got applied to GNU yes, so that it's incredibly fast, for no easily ascertainable reason long options are also a GNUism and i seem to recall that they were originally supposed to be used only for scripting - the idea being that it's easier to read the script if you know what's being done, but then what's the point of BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 2, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
mawarannahr posted:-f is posix, op -r doesn't exist and i'm pretty sure the behaviour of -l is subtly different
|
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2021 20:27
|
|
|
Rufus Ping posted:Wow. Hostile gatekeeping and toxic reaction much. This does NOT reflect well on the Linux community 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 4, 2021 20:26
|
|
|
Kamrat posted:BSD is just for people that thinks Linux is too mainstream
|
|
#
¿
Dec 6, 2021 23:04
|
|
|
freeasinbeer posted:if you really hate K8s that much; the real hipster alternative to K8s is Nomad, way simpler and solves a bunch of the stuff K8s did with better tooling like consul and vault. Poopernickel posted:it's weird how "unstable" has such different meanings for Linux and Windows
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2021 08:13
|
|
|
mycophobia posted:macos is cool. or at least was, i havent used it since like 10.5
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2021 23:22
|
|
|
carry on then posted:this is how i know you've never used it had 10.6 supported the powerbook g4, it would've been the last good version (although if you went to the trouble of acquiring a development version, it could work but it meant no updates) SYSV Fanfic posted:The main thing to know is that if you are most concerned about browser security, snaps/flatpaks add extra security over unzipping to opt. The browser will run in a sandbox, you'll get the latest updates, and there's a better chance dependencies won't have vulnerabilities. IDK much about appimage these days, but it's the same idea as old appimage except it uses kernel features to better protect your system from vulnerable or poorly packaged software.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
carry on then posted:the first gen macbook pro was identical to the powerbook while being 5x faster. leopard is obsolete. 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 20:53
|
|
|
how about, i dunno, fixing the OOM killer? oh wait, people have been trying for over a decade what it invariably comes down to is either people talking about performance as if that's the most important thing over system stability when the system is in production use, or it's some vague "you don't need that" post, as in the first response to the lwn.net article above BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Dec 11, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 06:10
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:There's nothing to fix. Exhausting all available physical and virtual memory is an error condition caused by bugs or bad design on the part of the user. "System stability" is kind of a moot point when the other option is to automatically flush all dirty buffers/cache to disk and halt the system or wait for a human oracle rather than a heuristic. SYSV Fanfic posted:Any time my computer starts swapping I get paranoid that it's dying/freezing. Can't be the only one.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 15:43
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:Talking about being anxious my hardware is dying when swapping happens. Like... did this thing just freeze for five seconds ten times in a row b/c I need to repaste something, am I going to have to do an RMA/buy a new board? Thermal throttling? Oh no, just firefox using 10,000% CPU and 150% available ram. Nope just working as intended, swapping out thousands of 4k chunks of memory like it's 1994 and I'm running emacs or some poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 17:10
|
|
|
hifi posted:anyways bsd probably sucks just as much poo poo if not more when some docker crapware is spawning itself 300 times a second BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Dec 11, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
Tankakern posted:so they succeded? 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 19:57
|
|
|
The_Franz posted:freebsd oom killer uses the "new guy in the prison yard" approach: find the biggest process and take it out. linux attempts to use some heuristics when trying to figure out which process to whack
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
Nomnom Cookie posted:my earlier point, which you seem to have either missed or ignored, is that in the scenarios kubernetes is designed for and deployed into, crashing the system is better than slowing down. a crash is a fail-stop, fail-stops are well understood and distributed systems are usually pretty good at dealing with them. fail-slows are a lot less well understood, are more complicated to handle, and some of the mechanisms used to detect fail-stops will aggravate the effects of a fail-slow. that is why kubernetes was built to operate without swap and why people who know what they’re doing won’t use kube with swap unless they really know what they’re doing and really need it kubernetes is scale-out fail-over with load-balancing, not a ssi with single root/ipc/IO/process space, process migration and all the other fun stuff Lysidas posted:there is a similar mechanism to give weights to processes for the linux oom killer, i have never looked in to details of how these are set but ive seen a bunch of oom killer ouptut in dmesg, and most systems are configured out of the box so e.g. sshd will never be oom-killed
|
|
#
¿
Dec 12, 2021 03:19
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:You don't have to wait, here's an blanksystemdaemon flowchart you can just respond to.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 12, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:They can't host a central repo. They would have to secure redistribution rights with every vendor, and good luck with that. It's still just a bunch of wrapper scripts around third-party garbage binary installers. The only party that could conceivably pull that off is Microsoft, and they only built a dpkg-equivalent in MSI, then lost interest when it came to writing the part that actually manages packages…
|
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
Basically, everything is terrible.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2021 16:40
|
|
|
what is linux desktop, i post as i browse sa on a used-but-new-to-me t480s with freebsd, wayland and sway
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2022 12:13
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 20:16 |
|
|
Kazinsal posted:is sndio standard on freebsd these days or is it still a port? apparently some folks ported it to linux because porting openbsd's sound layer to linux took less time than getting sound to universally work on alsa and friends sndio is great for getting the same interface across multiple OS' though and for a while it was also the only way to do webrtc in firefox on freebsd (although this has since been fixed, and oss in libcubeb now works again after the bitrot got fixed by one of the freebsd developers)
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2022 13:18
|
|