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RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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OldAlias posted:

in Gnome/Linux it tells you when there are updates through the Software Catalogue, and it Just Works

Except when it doesn't and poo poo breaks worse than cli update ever could.

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RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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cinci zoo sniper posted:

i had some unironic gentoo fanatic try to cry at me how systemd is terrible garbage and how sysvinit, openrc, and upstart are all undeniably better than it :laffo:

I used to spin up gentoo anytime i wiped my drive just for fun.

I stopped because systemd is such a nightmare to get running it's not worth the effort anymore.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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BobHoward posted:

why wouldn't you just download a binary like a normal human being

what does compiling it yourself get you other than hastening global warming

if you have your compile flags set up right, then the system will run faster than generic pre-compiled binaries

not enough faster to ever make up for the compile time you have to invest, but faster

https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Notorious b.s.d. posted:

this is the impossible condition

it's not like linux distributors choose the wrong flags on purpose. often the flags they chose are already the best choice, and you will eke out nothing more.

other times you will manage to get some subset of the system to compile with -Os -fomit-frame-pointer --gently caress-safety and it works except for a feature you didn't test

the distros compile generic flags that should be universally compatible, but if *I* set the flags that are best for *my* specific machine it will run much faster!!! :v:

the reality is that any gains you get are so marginal that you will never recover the time lost to compiling, and the only use gentoo has is teaching you to copy arcane commands from a wiki, and how to read logs so you can get directed to the right wiki page

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Lol if your editor isn't nedit

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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only reason i know about nedit was a request from some ee to make it work in kde

i couldn't figure out why he wanted it

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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BobHoward posted:

on the other hand emacs ui is completely horrible shite that should have been left behind in the 1970s

vim supremacy

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Skim Milk posted:

what about my operating system, op?

its a piece of poo poo

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Doom Mathematic posted:

But why doesn't Bash check the syntax of a call to its own builtin before run time? If it's an external executable with a funny name, fine, but the builtin is right there. :psyduck:

at a guess, bash checks $PATH before it checks its builtins to cater to the tendency of linux nerds to write their own custom hacks. this isn't as common a situation as it used to be, but bash isn't exactly new software.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Progressive JPEG posted:

i imagine theres a significant fraction of "linux enthusiasts" who specifically gravitate towards things that are unpopular and complain about anything that gets to be too common or well-known

the ones that try a new tiling window manager every week and think init scripts are just fine, and who don't want things to be convenient, easy to use, or easy to understand

os hipsters

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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OldAlias posted:

yeah, the desktop ricing people are some, it’s real. i3 is looked down upon lol. you can find them quick on image boards or reddit but probably better to just imagine. a custom setup can be “cool” to aid a workflow, or even as an end to itself if you want to play around with UI/UX, but a bunch of it is just cargo culting for cred. weird nerd identity politics here too, allowing some dumb poo poo like init systems to take on a broader meaning, like an attack on community. why do people take this personally, like how many of the grieved does this actually effect?

https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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hobbesmaster posted:

after working with embedded Linux for a while I now no longer care what a Linux system uses so long as whatever bizarro system it has is documented

actually I lied it has to have vi on it

i feel like vi should be part of coreutils.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:

is it not? I thought vi was one of those things that you just expected to exist anywhere outside a "grub failed to load the os, have fun editing" hellscape.

it's there on every full install of *nix I've ever touched, but it's not in coreutils.

i don't have a linux box handy to do a lookup on, but i did just search through a listing of the coreutils commands and it wasn't listed

edit: in both rhel family and arch it comes from the vim-minimal package.

RFC2324 fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Oct 26, 2017

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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VikingofRock posted:

I sometimes wonder, if I set my username to "firstname lastname", how much stuff would break because my home directory now has a space in it?

who knows, since half the system would break just from a space in the username

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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each one a different size all overlapping so you can't actually see more than one at a time.

bonus points if you use transparency so you can't actually see anything

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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I like the ones who install a gui, but refuse to plug in a mouse because they are "more efficient just using keyboard shortcuts"

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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cis autodrag posted:

One time doing a go live for epic I watched a um manager enter a referral about 10x faster than I'd ever managed using only the keyboard and it blew my mind. If the work flow is designed with it in mind a key board can definitely be more efficient, but programming ain't one of those work flows.

I've known sysadmins who were insanely fast, and I usually arrange my workflow around touching the mouse as little as possible. there are just certain things that it will ALWAYS be faster to use the mouse for, unless you literally design your entire UI around not needing one(and then you spend so much time doing that you probably are overall at a time loss vs just working with what is there)

I've also noticed that in the normal run of things those guys lose alot of time tabbing around, missing the option they were trying to hit, and having to tab all the way back around because they don't know about ctrl-tab

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i have a hard time using a mouse for physical reasons

offering a cli and making keyboard shortcuts available is a matter of accessibility. it is hard to predict what users will need

which is a different use case than thinking it's more efficient

i try to avoid mouse use but know some things will always be more efficient with a mouse

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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cis autodrag posted:

I've never used screen to replace windowing, but I have used screen a bunch of times to house long running jobs on servers that have a habit of kicking my ssh session thus cutting me off from the stdout of the job.

tmux is better for windowing anyway

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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eschaton posted:

does RMS have thoughts about systemd

that could be amusing




in a similar way to when someone told him about lldb

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=123341

He apparently doesn't actually give a poo poo, since it doesn't violate his 'its free!!!!' poo poo

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Cocoa Crispies posted:

it's called btrfs because it's not good but it's getting btr

i worked with zfs on solaris, and it was cool and good. super easy to work with. first time i did a disk swap i was confused at the end because it couldn't possibly have been that easy and smooth

dunno about zfs on other platforms tho

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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hifi posted:

windows rebooting a million times in an update and the progress bar moving all over is a classic though

140% done!

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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my dell precision requires that you remove the CPU heatsink to clean out the GPU fan

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

nope, this is default behavior in gnome 3 under fedora (which is basically red hat with serial number filed off afaik)

not exactly, fedora is basically the dev version of red hat. when they do a new version of rhel, they fork fedora, change a few things about the default config to make for a more stable and sane system, and then don't update any of the packages other than bugfixes/security patches.

centos is rhel with the serial numbers filed off

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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opensuse if you want to be weird

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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a stable environment loving sucks. its much better when poo poo crashes all the time

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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cinci zoo sniper posted:

hey sapozhnik (or nbsd or anyone else really), have u got an extended take on opensuse by chance?

i don't know about an extended take, but its fairly solid, and yast2 is an extremely good ncurses based menued configuration system that lets you configure most system level things (ntp, network config, ldap, etc).

I'd say it's better than fedora, but it lacks the community support you would get.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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cinci zoo sniper posted:

ah, alright. so, linux users can have multiple groups, and i can tell a process/command to act as as a specific group, do i get that right? if so, that's good enough for, to tick off mental checkboxes or whatever

ill just make various app folder in /etc/ or /srv/ or whatever, and build group-based permissions for them

is it possible to define, for instance, /etc/foo/ have chmod for 744 for group bar but 777 for group baz (bad example, i know, just curious if that's a thing at all)

Each file/folder can have one group, and permissions are what that user/group/everyone can do to it.

Each user can have multiple groups, however, and thats how you control access.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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hobbesmaster posted:

setenforce 0?

no one would ever try that!

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Suspicious Dish posted:

you'd love my actual desktop then



i'm meirl.jpg

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Gazpacho posted:

corp. firewall

i mean gee it's as if by being here where the app will be used i have some asymmetric knowledge not available to the internet at large

wait, this thing is going to be exposed to the internet at large?

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Shaggar posted:

if you can afford a windows license why would you still have gentooo installed?

can't rice out windows

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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brand engager posted:

Which distro should I be using for this server after I tear down the server with the amazon distro? I'm on free tier because I'm using this for a two-semester software engineering class, and I wont really need it after May.


centos

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Maximum Leader posted:

red hat is centos but with branding and support

don't you have to buy a RHEL sub to use it on AWS?

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you should be listening on localhost:80, not 0.0.0.0:80

listen on every address on the internet!

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i spoke from experience

sun used to promise minimum support periods of ten years. if you wrote a big enough check, actual support periods extended quite a lot.

a former employer was still receiving (some) solaris 7 patches as late as 2010

I worked for a place still getting Solaris 7 support in 2015. Those engineers did everything they could to blame the hardware every time we opened an incident.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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what if traps are my kink? :v:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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hifi posted:

was it gotomypc or teamviewer that was vulnerable a while back? anyways that scandal revealed a lot of really bad home lab security practices

last i heard with the team viewer thing was that their central management server was somehow compromised and peoples sessions were getting hijacked. basic lesson I don't let someone else have complete control over remote access

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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ratbert90 posted:

Slackware 3.9 was my first distribution. It was pretty awesome. I was 15 at the time....

I'm old. :smith:

:hfive:

i don't remember the version but it was around 95 or so

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RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Poopernickel posted:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17140934

main article is a link to the awk book, but the comments are kind of interesting - I didn't think awk was really used much any more

every unix guy I have ever known has used awk at least a little for scripts and oneliners

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