Linux: everything cobold is gnu again - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: everything cobold is gnu again

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infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

reminder that if windows can SSH, i certainly don't know how

PuTTY? works for me anyway.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2014 19:18

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# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 21:31

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

ssh tunnel out of work every day

i work from home, doesn't really seem to be much point

# ¿ Mar 20, 2014 20:29

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Arch is bad and you shouldn't use it.

I technically work on Fedora, but it's loving awful and I wish it didn't exist. Like one of my coworkers is working on such advanced system features as "atomic system upgrades that actually work" and "nightly test builds".

It seems the builds currently aren't working because of a libguestfs bug preventing the images from being made? Ugh. I poked my coworker and it seems he knows about it and isn't sure what to do. He can't seem to reproduce the bug locally.

All package managers are terrible. yum is the worst program I've ever used, and nobody seems to care. dnf is faster, but it still crashes and incomprehensibly weird sometimes. Today it couldn't download any .rpm on the server even though I could right-click on the URL it was downloading and curl it in myself.

But since I installed the package from a file instead of fetching from a repo, that means I'll never get updates for it, unless I pass some really dumb flag to it.

the year of linux on the desktop, folks

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 14:17

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

meanwhile, linux actually did kill off commercial unix. just fuckin steamrolled it. for some reason, this did not make a lot of magazine covers.

to be fair, that's because commercial unix was pretty much universally awful and expensive (and hilariously proprietary). no one wanted to use it, and everyone jumped ship the moment they had a chance (unlike what happened to windows).

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 16:06

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

most of the old timey unix guys i've met are loving awful.

the kind of people that try to convince small businesses that sendmail and built-from-scratch freeBSD servers are the right choice for their ten person office. the hilarious part, is given the chance, they manage to gently caress that up too.

they're all "consultants" that haven't had a contract since the mid 90s and don't seem to realize that anything has changed.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 18:27

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i know at least two guys who fit this description perfectly

the last one i dealt with managed to gently caress up both ssl and smtp auth, leaving imap in cleartext and having an open SMTP relay. he was a "security expert" who built "government systems".

he convinced my client not to use windows for their server because it was too insecure. loving hilarious

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 18:31

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

os x has a lot of really clever and well implemented workarounds that kinda mitigate the fact that it is an absolutely awful window manager.

it's easy to use despite itself

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 18:35

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

gnome has a lot of the same workarounds, poorly implemented, for much the same reasons.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 18:36

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

gesture controlled window/tab picker (ala expose) and alt-tab style window switching with gestures would make things a lot quicker to navigate

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 18:50

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Expose has been part of GNOME3 since the beginning.

and it doesn't work for poo poo. this is the poorly implemented part in my previous comment

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:04

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

We hired four of them. They make some pretty great icons now.

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/#icons

brilliantly designed, and easy to understand:

and these two, photos, gallery? are they the same thing? who knows?

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:08

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Mind expanding on that? What issues are you having with it?

chunky/jittery animation, missed clicks, jumping windows at times. it also didn't seem to actually support gestures the last time i tried it, but that was a while ago now.

i also seem to remember it only handling programs, not tabs or sub windows

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:11

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

this is neat though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpTHXEUTesA

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:21

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

oval office AND PASTE posted:

i'm using my on-chip GPU and don't have any performance problems. i don't recall the shell ever claiming to support gestures.

stop using tabs, use individual instances, spread them across workspaces (relevant to whatever you're working on in that space)

$5 says the response is "b-b-but that breaks ~my workflow~"

it doesn't break my workfow, because i just use os x for any *nix stuff i need, which supports all of what i mentioned and works with gestures. gestures are the key part though because having to use key combos to trigger the function or switch windows slows things down significantly, and is a big part of why it sucks on gnome.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:25

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Honest question: what GPU are you using? Most of the performance issues we've seen are actually a combination of vsync and a bad GPU performance governor, namely Intel chips.

Gory details over here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719368#c13

This absolutely shouldn't happen. I've never seen it myself. If you are interested in it at all and can manage to reproduce, please let me know and I'll try to track it down.

since you're looking for honest feedback, i'll drop it. i can't reproduce the issues as i have neither the install nor the laptop it was running on any more. for reference it was a first gen intel i3 with intel GMA video, 8gb ram and an ssd.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Are you talking about touch gestures or mouse gestures? What sort of gestures do you want?

touch gestures, although if it can be implemented in a sane way with mouse gestures, i'd love to see it.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:33

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

oval office AND PASTE posted:

except no one uses internet explorer lol

firefox does it too, don't know about chrome.

it's not as convenient as expose though

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:34

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

It might be a bit out of date, but here's our current design for gestures:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/Gestures

Does that look OK to you? I don't think it's gotten any feedback yet, so it's in no way set in stone.

that looks really good actually. except two finger hold + tap, which i think would be awkward. the actions make sense though, which is good

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:50

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

oval office AND PASTE posted:

just looked at the latest firefox on windows and it still doesn't have the tab preview on the taskbar lol

it does, and it works, it's just not turned on by default. i've been using it for a couple years now

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 19:55

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

It's a balance and we make mistakes all the time.

mistake #1: gnome 3*

*jk: all linux WMs are bad

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 20:15

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

oval office AND PASTE posted:

i know yospos doesn't want to hear that because dick size is measured by the number and size of displays you have on your desk but i've not thought for one moment that i should hook it up again

that's unfair, you aren't nearly as worried about your dick size as we are

# ¿ Mar 21, 2014 20:47

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

or i can use kde and have both new features and continuity with the past

yes, but unfortunately you'd be using kde.

i know you come from a commercial unix background, but come on, it's hideous.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2014 00:54

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Mr Dog posted:

kde is offensively ugly, that's the main reason i don't use it

# ¿ Mar 22, 2014 01:32

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Symbolic Butt posted:

idk I'm used to apt also centos packages really let me down in a way that even ubuntu never really hosed me up so I'm afraid of the yum now

i've never once had a dist-upgrade do anything but gently caress my system into unbootability. not once has it worked.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2014 02:29

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Yes, the weird clipping and overlapping drawing is a bug in Ubuntu GNOME, caused by Ubuntu's patches to GTK+.

so basically you're hosed, you can't make a consistent DE because the distos can just break it with whatever hackjob they decide to ship

this is why linux on the desktop doesn't work. there are a million different implementations of everything, users can't just grab one and go because they have no way of knowing what will be broken by any given distro. and there's always something broken.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2014 03:23

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

no, it works fine on every sane linux

ubuntu is just dogshit in a pressure cooker. you literally cannot find a worse distribution. it is a clusterfuck in every way, from every angle

think about this: i was just put in the position of defending gtk 3

okay, so can you name a "sane" linux distro that consumer oriented, intended to be installed on a desktop? i.e. one that has a graphical installer, auto-partitioning, and doesn't dump you to a command line to install graphics/sound/wireless/whatever when there are no working open source drivers.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2014 03:42

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

hey fedora guy!

why is installing vmware tools on fedora such a poo poo show?

why do i have to manually remove the "open-vm-tools" package using the command line?

# ¿ Apr 10, 2014 19:07

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

awesome-express posted:

It's a UX position since I'm a UI master (lol)

this is possible the fastest way to hate being a UX designer: work in open source.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2014 16:47

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

prefect posted:

charlize theron is from south africa

charlize theron was in �on Flux, so she's not really helping your point any

# ¿ May 3, 2014 00:41

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

slogsdon posted:

putting linux users in jail is good policy imo

you just know they've done something

# ¿ May 3, 2014 19:17

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

theadder posted:

its windows

hardly. windows isn't driven by wikipedia based technical "accuracy".

it's 20 years of long tail cruft with a focus grouped coat of paint every three years

# ¿ May 5, 2014 03:15

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

shadowhawk is a living chinese room experiment

wine on ubuntu is the result

# ¿ May 21, 2014 00:11

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

so fedora 20 still doesn't work with broadcom wifi chipsets.

there's a driver that doesn't work oob because you need to go through some thirty step firmware extraction nonsense because free software or whatever. then there's the driver direct from broadcom that won't build for a half-dozen different reasons.

turns out it was easier to go find a spare intel mini pcie wifi card and swap it in than it was to go through the reams of bullshit to get the shipped adapter to work.

it's even easier to just use windows but i need kismet to track down some wifi interference issues and that poo poo doesn't work in a vm.

go linux. not a single install in 15 years that hasn't required me to drop to the command line to get the hardware working right

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 20:40

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Progressive JPEG posted:

this is all you needed to say, the rest is redundant

sure, they're trash. but they're really common trash.

it's not like you can't test against this stuff so that one of the most common wifi chipsets actually works oob

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 20:46

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Soricidus posted:

don't use fedora, like its namesake it is a bad thing for bad people.

broadcom wifi works just fine on debian with zero hassle.

cool, distro wars!

you're actually advocating using vanilla debian for something that's meant to be minimal effort oob?

here's a hint, it doesn't matter what distro you use, there will always be some goddamn thing that doesn't work right and requires loving around in bash for 20 minutes to fix.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 22:54

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Malcolm XML posted:

don't use linux

i wouldn't but afaik kisMAC doesn't support any of the newer macbook wifi cards for monitor mode, which is what i need

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 22:56

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Progressive JPEG posted:

i had a laptop with a broadcom 43xx and drivers for it only came into existence after several volunteer developers had done a full chinese wall reverse engineering job over several months against one of broadcom's windows drivers

so i dont think linux is the party to be blaming here tbh

so the drivers exist already? yes?

then linux is at fault here.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 23:16

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Progressive JPEG posted:

no they didnt exist until a year or two after id gotten the laptop

they actually worked better than the windows version did lmao

so the drivers exist now though? and have since like 2013 or so at least? yes?

then why the gently caress aren't they properly packaged and tested for a popular, supposedly user oriented, distro that came out in 2014?

because linux suck rear end at anything related to user experience, or you know, having things work properly without bespoke fuckery

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 23:27

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

Progressive JPEG posted:

is yours also a 43xx or something else

cuz my whiny story is from like 2005-2006 fyi

yeah, it's a 43xx chipset. the reverse engineered drivers and even official first party broadcom drivers have been around for years

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 23:45

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

congrats on having to use the command line to fix something that should have worked oob. linux almost doesn't suck in really specific edge cases

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 11:23

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# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 21:31

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; the future has already arrived. it's just not evenly distributed yet.

pseudorandom name posted:

windows is designed for pre-built non-upgradable purely disposable computers that have their disks imaged in the factory, any other scenario is a half-assed afterthought

what other kind of computers are you buying? the vendor or your it dept. is supposed to handle this poo poo.

the thing about windows is even if you build a diy machine out of salteens and alibaba reject parts it'll still boot to desktop and actually be usable

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 17:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: everything cobold is gnu again

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