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sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




I upgraded from fedora 24 to fedora 25 and it's smooth sailing so far.
I am not on board the Wayland train, however, until they support desktop icons.

Funny thing is, I had to update because I added "vim-minimal" to the list of things to remove in my desktop's ansible script and it felt like it took too long to just remove a single package. Then I tried to install inkscape and realized that sudo disappeared.

I guess now I'll be testing steps by hand first before throwing them into ansible.

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sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




2017 year of still using the proprietary graphics drivers

this is why we can't ever fully switch to wayland

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




The_Franz posted:

gnome has an eglstreams<->gbm shim now that was too late for fedora 25 but will probably be in 26 so wayland will work with nvidia drivers

X is dead, long live X!

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




b0red posted:

so moving a uefi ubuntu installed hard drive from one computer to another doesn't allow it to boot. grub doesn't even show up. 2017 is definitely shaping up!!

part of uefi os configuration actually lives in the bios

if you are lucky then your bios has a mechanism to configure it to load your bootloader

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




like, you need to actually configure your bios to tell it where grub is, and any command line arguments.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




atomicthumbs posted:

What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX"

if linux is inspired by unix then unix must be pretty cool

for real though, when I used a solaris and found that /proc didn't have any useful information I just gave up

I once promised myself that I would give solaris a real shot but I got no time for that trash now

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




chmods please posted:

netcraft confirms it

Doesn't the PS4 use BSD?

Not quite dead yet, I think...

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




I read very little of that post but the most I got was "games on linux" and 1998

The only thing I remember about the late 90s and Games on Linux was that Quake 3 came out on Linux and it was very good. I think I actually have a boxed copy. I know I also purchased Myth 2 on Linux at about the same time.

Tux Racer came out in 2000 and was actually pretty fun for about a half hour.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




mike12345 posted:

I'm waiting for the next desktop CPU breakthrough to build a new system and switch completely to Linux, but looking at the industry that'll probably mean 2018 or later.

What would this be? FPGA coprocessors built into the silicon? 16-core desktops? magical exploit protection technology?

a UEFI that isn't complete trash??

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




it is, if you're a sperg

while we are on filesystem chat, apparently btrfs literally runs out of space if you use a small partition (like 4GB, I think). Apparently it can't turn unused space into free space so that it could actually get used. And you can't reclaim the space with utils without actually adding another device to provide free space in order to make free space.

I guess it don't matter unless you make 4GB filesystems on your flash drive for your linux desktop.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you should definitely write that

mike12345 posted:

yeah I would

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




give me make over maven anyday

let me download and manage my own dependencies

I hate having to manually manage my maven repository because a project won't build with an updated dependency and I have, on my computer, the best version of the dependency to build the project

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




on a similar vein, I dislike pip and npm too

but all of this is the wave of the future like systemd, so I have to work with it rather than avoid it completely

so what about them desktop linuxes huh

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Beldantazar posted:

You know you can specify the version of the dependency, right? You can even make it a property so you can override it in child projects if you have to. I literally do not understand how you could ever have this issue.


Soricidus posted:

dude the whole point of maven is that you specify the best version for your project in your pom and then you always get exactly that version. there is no situation in which you will ever get a different version than the one you specified in the pom. it will not download a newer version unless you tell it to by editing the pom.

unless you're doing something dumb like depending on snapshots. don't do that.

suffice it to say that I can't check in pom changes

also, I'm just using maven, I'm not writing these config files and it's been a confusing time trying to figure out if a configuration item was being honored or was ignored.

like I said, I bet I'll have to learn it inside and out but make is much more straightforward

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Tankakern posted:

my man have you heard about gentoo

this will never stop being funny

fritz posted:

as a c++ programmer, let me just say 'gently caress you'

works for me

you're using maven for c++? are you generating native code or something?

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Soricidus posted:

if you're in a position where you've been given hosed-up broken build files that you cannot fix, how would it help for the hosed-up broken build files that you cannot fix to be called Makefile instead of pom.xml?

also your make scenario becomes a nightmare as soon as you don't already have the right dependencies lying around. if you don't then make sure isn't going to help you identify the right version and download it and install it in the right location! unlike maven, which does exactly that, if your pom isn't broken.

different strokes, each system has its own flaws.

The only thing I was bringing up was the auto downloading of dependencies and trying to get maven to just use a different, local version of a file. I'm not advocating that everyone must stop using maven and use Makefiles, I'm just identifying an issue that was particularly irksome and that it took too long for me to get maven to make sense.

If I was building my project fine now, I should be able to build it fine later if I'm just updating my own code. I'd rather not have to interrupt my thought process to figure out why my build suddenly broke. Your "nightmare scenario" happens if I'm merging, which really is just what I could expect and I'm ok with. I've been doing this awhile and it works out.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




fritz posted:

no im using cmake and dependency management in c and c++ is hell and has always been hell and at this rate will always be hell

very true

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




jony neuemonic posted:

i'll probably go back to win10 just because it's my c# machine, but it runs fedora like a champ.

very nice

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




there are statistics that say that linux has more market share than windows due to android

microsoft is also starting to sell android galaxy phones in their stores

so really, you can certainly build successful products around linux

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




I have an AMD ATI RX 460, released late last year.

Installs and runs just fine under Ubuntu 16.04.2 (but not the OG 16.04). I put steam on it and it runs The Cave and Hard West like a champ.

So, I guess, get ATI?

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




I use fedora and ubuntu for all my day to day stuff. Hobbies, paying bills, scanning documents and video manipulation are preferable to do in Linux for me.

I have not had hardware issues except when I used an older 16.04 instead of 16.04.2 on a computer with a months-old card. With 16.04.2, it worked flawlessly.

I have a windows computer but it is relegated to blizzard and steam games and I rarely have the time to switch it on anymore for a quick dungeon or auction house check.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




let i hug posted:

hi, it is me, I am The rear end in a top hat that wants to run Linux on my desktop. I mostly deal with lovely programmer software made by developers who hate their own kind so the only thing I really need to work smoothly is Chrome and then the rest will be pretty easy to figure out with any distro. what do I go with? Fedora I guess? I can do Arch or something if there are compelling reasons but I don't really want to fiddle with things too much if I can help it.

"a real working operating system" is not something I am interested in because I am The rear end in a top hat. help would be appreciated.

fedora is fine

keep in mind that you have to upgrade every 9 months or so

if you don't like that then try centos or an ubuntu lts version (like 16.04)

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




here's another reason for distributions, although it is very specific to enterprises

having rhel and the ability to closely control your source code and binaries for a specific set of software is very important for companies like Red Hat that want to provide point releases with bugfixes and binary compatibility and service guarantees slash support contracts

I don't mind the distribution wars myself, to be honest. But I'm happy that canonical failed miserably with mir and unity.
Now if they'll just add an option to remove that idiotic startup sound...

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




I guess, to kind of augment the above, it's good to have competition for support contracts instead of just having a single entity for everything and risking another debian swamp

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




carry on then posted:

rip my rpi

what should i replace raspbian with

pidora?

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Isn't the rpi 2 susceptible to xenon flashes? No need to access the pins to crash it.

Also, if you put selinux on your pi (and put in the right types and attributes and yada yada) you can run the pin reading code as root and it'll be just as secure as running it as a normal user!

once you write all that up, please do the needful and open source it on github so that it'll be useful to precisely the 2 or 3 geeks that find it, up until the point they have to redo the whole thing because it doesn't fit into how their application components interact and they're tired of all the permission denied errors

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




nothing beats just taking the sdcard from the rpi and pulling out all of the secrets stored in cleartext

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Cybernetic Vermin posted:

freebsd has to be getting to be rare enough that no hackers would target it anymore at least

FreeNAS uses it

carry on then posted:

it's on every ps4

I wonder if its biggest recent gains are from using it as more of the back-end of a complex product rather than interfacing with it directly.

I've had to use freebsd on the command line when helping out a friend and it's very similar to a frustrating dialect.... I had to look up how to do a lot of system administration tasks and the concepts are the same, but the implementation is slightly off. And then there's zfs.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




spankmeister posted:

As opposed to what, Linux? It's just more unix-y because well, it's an actual Unix.

I'm not arguing any of your points, but I was talking as a linux sysadmin getting used to freebsd

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




hifi posted:

i use zfs on linux

very nice

I'll stick to xfs for now though

maybe using zfs on linux would have ameliorated a lot of the frustrations I had with using zfs

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




Sapozhnik posted:

okay, and...?

ext4 is fine

but why not use xfs?

especially if it's being pushed as the default filesystem

developers and distributors will eventually be testing and optimizing for xfs given time, I think

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




personally, I haven't had to do learn anything terribly new or change my sysadmin worldview since adopting xfs for most things

this is in stark contrast to systemd

I am not going to argue for or against systemd, but it's clearly different than sysV or upstart or etc

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




eschaton posted:

pro tip: it's not FreeBSD's implementation that's "slightly off"

like I said above, "slightly off" just meant "different", not "wrong"

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




The_Franz posted:

xfs supports larger files and filesystems. something like 8 exbibytes max file size and 16 exbibytes for the filesystem vs 16tb / 1 exbitbyte for ext4. xfs allegedly scales better performance-wise than ext4 too.

i remember hearing a long time ago that xfs had problems with leaving huge zero-filled files after power-loss, but i guess that was fixed?

I hear that it's a problem as well, but I bet it's "working as intended" rather than "broken" in order to preserve data integrity or something of that nature

the internet says that crash-prone systems should probably stick to ext4 than switch to xfs

there are other benchmarks that put ext4 above xfs for some scenarios but, as you say, xfs is definitely more futureproof

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




cinci zoo sniper posted:

*walks in, wearing official btrfs jorts* so,

The worst mistake I've ever made was putting btrfs on an embedded device. Got frustrated about "no free space" errors that were not fixed by deleting massive amounts of data. Out of desperation, I added another block device and expanded the filesystem to it, which is actually a pretty neat feature. Later, I read the FAQ and it turns out that you need to add a special flag when making the filesystem if the device is smaller than 16GB.

In an unrelated story, I was surprised when I couldn't guess the filesystem of a drive that was in cold storage for half a decade. It wasn't encrypted... wasn't lvm2... wasn't ext2 or ext3...

it turns out that it was reisermurderfs :ms:

I think it was actually a pretty good filesystem when I used it... too bad that it was named after the author who was a crazed murdering sperglord

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




ratbert90 posted:

It's called the VFS in the Kernel. :v:

... and ...

different software, different requirements, different features

vfat/exfat is great for thumb drives and devices with external storage

yaffs2 is great for raw flash chips

btrfs is good for masochists and gentoo users (but I'm repeating myself)

there should always be alternatives for everything

but I'd like to see a modern distribution with everything stored in the vfs for instant access

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sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




gonna sperg a bit here and say that the lack of permissions on vfat/exfat make them uniquely useful for thumb drives

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