|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Could it not also be seen as an attempt to prevent ethnic cleansing (through the Crimean Tatars fleeing), by assuring them that Russia will actually attempt to find a just solution instead of simply letting the issue remain unresolved? A compromise between the various groups seems like it would be much better PR than the Crimean Tatars fleeing to some other country.  Nationalists do not want Tatars in Crimea Tatars do not want to leave their homes Compromise: Move Tatars from Crimea Could you elaborate more on this, I really don't understand what the compromise is in relocation? Cantorsdust posted:328-0 to impeach him. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26304842 To be technical, he was not impeached, he was removed from the post of president which are two different events. An impeachment would mean criminal charges and would require an opinion from the Ukrainian supreme court, a vote to remove him just needed parliament's approval.
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:09 |
|
|
Would there be more blood in the streets though? If Russia had invaded Lviv sure, but even if the population there didn't want to join Russia, it's quite a step up from 'We don't want to be annexed' to 'Let's go attack that professional army with our old hunting rifles'. It's probably true that the majority of people in Crimea are at least apathetic to whether or not Crimea joins Russia, probably a majority that at least slightly supports it, but I don't think it would have made a tremendous difference if they had instead taken Donetsk where support will be much smaller.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2014 04:52
|
|
|
MeLKoR posted:I'm not sure that the solution to these problems is to freeze people to death during winter. If you already live in a lovely constructed apartment with poor insulation and are living hand to mouth I don't see how increasing energy cost to the point you can't afford heating is going to solve anything in the near future apart from the fact that dead people don't need gas imports. While it's certainly not warm in Ukraine right now, it's at best the end of winter. Temperatures are supposed to barely get into the negatives at night (and if things go well, no more negative nights after this week) and during the day it's pretty consistently around 10 degrees. Granted, in another month the weather should be much warmer than it is now and ending the subsidies would make more sense then, but I don't recall hearing when the subsidies specifically would be cut so for all we know, the deal might be to end them late April or early May rather than now.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2014 10:34
|
|
|
Cantorsdust posted:The EU in its current state seems very similar to the US under the Articles of Confederation before we really got the whole federal government thing understood, ie a clusterfuck of financial backstabbing among states. Hey, be fair. Under the Articles, there was no USA dollar, and every state had their own. Europe has got that problem solved good sir  .
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Europe shall unify or Europe shall collapse, it's about the size of it. [Citation Needed]
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Recorded history. Ah yes, I remember that time all of Europe collapsed, it's a miracle they managed to dig it back up! South America must unify or South America shall collapse, it makes about as much sense as what you said.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2014 01:30
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Yes, it's happened many times in the past. You should probably stop gloating about how ignorant you are. When exactly has Europe crumbled? If it's so common you should be able to point to specific examples. quote:I mean seriously? You're this unaware of continental unification programs in the world today? The only one doesn't have one is Asia. I'm aware of them, my point that seems to not have been conveyed was that a continent cannot 'crumble' in any meaningful sense and South America will not fall off the face of the Earth because multiple countries exist on it. Same as in Europe; some countries might not be doing too great economically right now but short of some WWIII poo poo I can't see how Europe as a whole is about to crumble without unification.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2014 02:42
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:World Wars: things that apparently haven't happened in your stunted little world. To say nothing of the various continent-wide wars previous. If wars happening means a region has crumbled, then unification would be utterly pointless because United Europe if anything would be more ready to go to war with Russia than the current EU is, not to mention the possibility of a civil war if unification goes badly. Also, speculating on future World War IIIs has its own thread now. quote:PS: Europe is already substantially unified... that's why it's not going to crumble. The unification that exists substantially buffers problems in way that couldn't have been done previously. Ah, so Europe existing as a bunch of independent states is fine then, I guess I have a different definition of unification.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2014 03:02
|
|
|
 You steal Russian clay, you are worst brit usa 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 9, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
I killed a baby once, but I think it was a bird. Should I post in GIP? (That GIP thread is alright. Updates a lot slower so I don't wake up to 100 posts a day, maybe 1/4 of which are news/discussion based on that news) burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Apr 15, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2014 22:13
|
|
|
Dusseldorf posted:I assume an agreement between the Ukrainian and Russian governments isn't going to stop Russia from ordering around their proxy militias. Part of the agreement was "all illegal military formations in Ukraine must be dissolved, and that everyone occupying buildings must be disarmed and leave them.", so while Putin is always free to ignore the agreement, they were specifically discussed and everyone agreed they have to go. Majorian posted:I actually wouldn't be so certain of that. I'm still more inclined to believe that this is from pro-Russian thugs, but there are fascist anti-Russian groups in Ukraine. I wouldn't put a "false flag pamphlet" past them. I don't think it's from Western Ukrainians, because it sends a message that in Eastern Ukraine, the people who did Maidan are powerless and if you supported them, the protestors know who you are and can get to you. While it's only targeting Jews, it wouldn't be that big a stretch for other Maidan supporters to see it and wonder what might happen to them for supporting the government in Ukraine.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2014 18:23
|
|
|
kalstrams posted:Well, their comment most likely is based on 'facts' sensible to the extent of Ukrainian nazis being trained by Polish NATO instructors in Lithuanian military bases so if the talk is about the general behaviour, feel free to call it absurd. Don't forget that the reason Poland is training these Ukrainian Nazis is to help reform the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. We've finally worked out the bugs, the reason the Commonwealth fell the first time was because it wasn't a fascist dictatorship! 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 26, 2014 01:40
|
|
|
BabyChoom posted:To think that their aren't Israeli spies from the former soviet union is ridiculous. What I read about this fellow is that he went along with the president in Exile to Russia and then returned to Ukraine as a Euromaiden hero. I have never heard of a country sending a government plane full of doctors to evacuate 1 mayor that isn't even in the same general area. Do you think one of the spies they sent was one of Hitler's relatives that converted to Judaism and moved to Israel because they loved how fascist it is? It must break his poor old heart to know that not only are they little fascist shits, but that they are now helping Ukrainians  .BabyChoom posted:It should be noted that just because A Jew is one of the leaders in the undemocratically elected Western installed government of Ukraine that it doesn't mean he isn't a fascist. Look, for example, at Israel. Israel is one of the most fascist countries on earth with full fledged apartheid. It's so fascist that some of Hitler's very relatives converted to Judaism and moved there. The ironic part of that is that now he complains that his children have become little fascist shits.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2014 18:19
|
|
|
BabyChoom posted:Yeah that was actually a real thing http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/06/judaism.secondworldwar You trying to make me look bad failed. Why did you feel the need to bring it up when you posted that for the first time in the old Eastern Europe thread? I just felt like pointing out that the Israeli "forces on the ground" in Ukraine conspiracy might have some possible connection to another point you brought up in the last thread. If you think that post makes you look bad or bringing up Jewish Hitlers is irrelevant, I'm afraid I can't help you with that, you're gonna have to ask yourself that. Majorian posted:I think it's probably more column B than column A, but the smartest among them also know that this is uncharted ground. Nobody can predict what repercussions the slightest move on their part might have in this batshit crazy context. It probably goes without saying that I wouldn't want their job. Part of me wonders if maybe their plan is to wait it out, let the separatists hold their referendums, and hope that recent polling data that shows less than 33% support for secession in these regions is correct and the separatists will look like a whole bunch of fools when their vote fails. Problem is, I can't imagine that the separatists got together the weaponry and organization to have all these takeovers of government buildings, kidnapping foreign journalists, but then hold a totally open and democratic vote with no backup plan and simply accept defeat and go home if it fails. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Apr 29, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2014 20:28
|
|
|
drilldo squirt posted:Anyway did we figure out if shooting into a crowd and then having them kill you a war crime? I think the consensus is "It is as much a war crime as cutting off farming water to Crimea was" .
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2014 07:27
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:Any news on that topic? Who did it? Sadly no. All I can find is sources saying Ukraine did it, but nowhere says if it was on the orders of the federal government, a bureaucrat working for whoever administers the water, an actual technical malfunction that Ukraine doesn't want to admit, Russian Cylon posing as the president, etc.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2014 07:40
|
|
|
In  news, Canada has increased sanctions on 16 new Russian officialsquote:Ottawa says it is imposing economic sanctions on 16 more Russian “entities” over that country’s actions in Ukraine. (For anyone curious why Canada cares, about 4% of Canada is of Ukrainian origin, 3% of Polish origin and only ~1.5% Russian origin, and opinion polls generally put the Conservative Party well behind the Liberal Party, so free chance to look tough and appeal to Ukrainian and Polish Canadians)
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
pigdog posted:LOL if South Korea/Japan wants to rely on Russian gas passing through North frikkin Korea. Because when when it comes to my nation's energy sources, I want its delivery to depend on the mood of the craziest tinpot dictator in the region!
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2014 08:38
|
|
|
HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:I'm constantly stunned by otherwise intelligent people telling me, "But the government in Kyiv is a junta, they're not the elected government." There's gaps in people's understanding of events, and it's right there in front of them. The entire Odessa tragedy was livestreamed, anyone could watch and see what happened, and myriad videos appeared online after the fact. Yet, people refuse to only believe the facts that fit their preconceived notions about the situation. Had a guy this morning tell me, "I don't think you have a full understanding of what's really happening in Ukraine," Then went into a bullet pointed list of everything that's been repeated ad nauseum on RT. Has anyone ever had Belarusian beer? I don't even mean anyone in this thread or anyone outside of Belarus, I just mean in general, has anyone actually drank Belarusian beer? I'm just kinda curious if this is some attempt to strengthen the local beer producers, hope that hockey fans drink vodka, or just pointless dickery.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2014 20:28
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:Has there been much violence there before the recent events? I'm not sure what the goal of the military operation was but it can't have helped much with popular opinion. According to the polls we have seen, that is very unlikely. Pew poll on Ukrainian views on secession  The eastern regions are overall split on whether to recognize Crimea's secession  However, they do feel that the government in Kiev, overall, is a bad influence on the current situation  I think overall I'd say based on these polls, it seems like though the people living in eastern Ukraine do not like the federal government, they also don't want to separate from Ukraine. I think if you took the third poll again after nation wide elections are held (if such a thing is possible), you'd see the view of the government in Kyiv balance out a lot more between east and west views. E: Damnit  forgot to hit refresh before replying.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2014 19:31
|
|
|
To be fair, he does use the shift key, just to capitalize random words that are not normally capitalized in English .
|
|
#
¿
May 11, 2014 08:59
|
|
|
While there's no solid evidence or in turn explanation for whatever evidence might exist, it would seem bizarre for Ukraine to hire American mercenaries to fight separatists. The "Blackwater" employees aren't super soldiers or some black ops bad asses, they aren't experienced or even trained in taking cities from entrenched militias, and it's really bad PR to be uses foreign soldiers in general, much less a notorious American PMC. If the government's support was really low across the whole nation, or if the separatists were trying to make a push all the way to Kyiv, then I could maybe see it making sense, but in Ukraine here and now, it doesn't make any real sense.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2014 01:59
|
|
|
All you Western Europeans need to get a move on, Poland's been setting up Commonwealth II: Homofascist Boogaloo for a while now, and once the elections happen in Ukraine, Poland will be winning revanchism  .
|
|
#
¿
May 13, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
ProfessorCurly posted:Also it isn't secret when we tell everyone about it. Hey, be fair, the contents of the meeting remained hidden. One day the CIA may unlock the secrets to having a meeting nobody outside the meeting knows about  .
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
What does purple vs blue signify? Initial signers vs later additions?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2014 08:37
|
|
|
Panas posted:Seriously though, Ukraine didn't even fire a shot in defense of Crimea. Yes, because there was the concern that Russia would use the deaths of their invasion force as a pretext to invade more of Ukraine with more force. During the whole crisis, Russia maintained that the forces taking over Crimea were local Russian patriots and not Russian soldiers, so if the Ukrainian military killed them, from Russia's perspective it would be evidence of Ukrainian oppression of its Russian minority. Instead of risking bloodshed, Ukraine decided to attempt diplomacy and requesting sanctions on Russia from its western allies. This was unsuccessful, but it would be ludicrous to say Ukraine did nothing in response to Russian invasion. Now that Ukraine has seen first hand that sanctions and diplomatic means alone did not deter Russia, and that there is less evidence of direct Russian involvement in Donetsk and Luhansk, they are using more direct means. Not everything is black and white, there are more options than "Go in guns blazing" and "Abandon all claim to territory". burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 5, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 05:06
|
|
|
Mightypeon posted:IIRC Thailand and the US went to undeclared and later war in WW2 when Thailand was de facto vasall of Imperial Japan. I am pretty certain that they declared war on the UK, I am not completely sure if this was later expanded to the US. This is almost an entirely pointless argument that keeps happening every few pages (yes NATO nations have no had a war with Russia since membership, yes it is possible NATO membership is what has prevented war with Russia, no it is not for certain and there are other plausible explanations, further it is possible that new nations joining NATO may encourage Russian aggression against non-NATO states), for whoever is curious about this, Thailand did indeed declare war on both the UK and the USA on January 25, 1942.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2014 10:02
|
|
|
Guildencrantz posted:What the gently caress is happening When I first heard about the scandal, the cynic in me thought it'll stay in the news for about a month but by the parliamentary elections, it'll have all blown over and Poland's (kinda lovely but better than it has been before) status quo would resume. Now with this news, I seriously think this is going to kill the PO and they'll be lucky to get >10% in the next elections (not that they don't deserve it for pulling poo poo like this, but still worrying about a PiS win  ).
|
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2014 23:33
|
|
Who thought this was a good idea? Has Tusk suffered some kind of psychological meltdown? Jesus Christ, the status quo has just shot itself in the face faster than Barbara Blida
|
Zo posted:Military forces can't patrol a border now? How's that glue taste So if the USA just happened to decide to fly some soldiers into Georgia and mobilize them on the Georgian/Russian border, would your first thought be "Wow, smuggling between the Georgian/Russian border must be really bad for that response!" or would you realize how stupid that sounds?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
A Pale Horse posted:I also question the accuracy of those numbers since in most other sources I've seen Polish dependence on Russian gas as between 35-54% of the natural gas supply, not 79%. The numbers are percent of imported natural gas that comes specifically from Russia, so it's saying that of the natural gas that Poland uses that is imported from abroad, 79% of that imported gas is (allegedly) from Russia. Speaking of Poland's energy supply, is the plans to build a nuclear power plant still going on? Last I heard there was some disagreement about where to build it/who should build it but I haven't heard anything lately. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jul 19, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2014 10:33
|
|
|
Majorian posted:No, what I saw was someone saying that criticizing Malaysia Air was redirecting the blame from the separatists, which is bullshit when they did it, and it's bullshit now when you're doing it. My criticisms of Malaysia Air were incorrect, I admit. But acting like blaming a (mis)perceived error on the airline's part isn't redirecting blame from the separatists, and you know it. "Look I know I was wrong about the airline being at fault but the airline was at fault for some dudes shooting missiles nobody knew they had at their plane" With the knowledge you have now that your earlier criticism was incorrect, what specifically did MA do wrong that they should have done differently?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2014 08:37
|
|
|
Swan Oat posted:^^^ do Polish far-righters feel much about Silesian autonomy? Well, let's see what Jarosław Kaczyński, head of the Law and Justice party thinks about it! "Jarosław Kaczyński posted:“Being a Silesian is a simple way to cut ties [with a Polish identity], and indeed could be a way to camouflage a German identity” So... not great. Admittedly PiS isn't far-right, but they're the farthest right major party (or at the very least is in a close contest with KNP).
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2014 10:14
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:My family in Poland is furious at the EU over this, and mentioned that a lot of Polish politicians are speaking out against the EU. I know Poland will never leave the EU ( for obvious reasons ) but there's talk of Poland forming a Eastern European union to help out smaller countries economically/get everyone working together against Russia ( because Poland still REALLY hates Russia ). Honestly, if Poland did anything remotely like this, Putin would be overjoyed; at best it would be a bit of an embarrassment for Poland, at worst it'd be a political scandal and a lot of money down the toilet. Forming an EEU with existing EU states would be redundant and largely pointless, so who would be left to invite in? Belarus? Ukraine? Moldova? And the big thing you need to get countries away from Russia (gas), Poland doesn't have, unless those countries have coal plants they don't mind reopening. Poland's best bet for some kind of anti-Russia economic thing would be getting Algeria and Libya into the EU and then fund some sort of Algeria/Lybia-Bulgaria-Romania pipeline. It'd be a pretty big long shot but something like that has a way better chance of getting other Eastern Europeans away from Russia than Poland throwing around what little (compared to giant neighbors like Germany and Russia) money they have.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2014 10:25
|
|
|
alex314 posted:It is some solution for a problem, but if Ukrainian government would be forced by Germany to take the deal we'd be neck-deep in comparisons with Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland situation. On the one hand, I just can't imagine Merkel trying to force Ukraine to recognize Crimea's annexation with the only concession from Russia being "We will stop dicking with you, and give you  ". On the other, I don't think the German government cares too much about Ukraine and whether or not it joins the EU, at least compared to how much it wants business as usual to return, and forcing Ukraine to accept Cash 4 Crimea is by far the easiest route.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2014 09:01
|
|
|
kalstrams posted:Dude from St. Petersburg describes all the joys of his vacation in Crimea. All I understood from the first few moments was "Crimea is loving ours" .I assume from the tone of his voice that the moral of his story is "Yeah went to Crimea, wanted to see what all the fuss was about, it was pretty poo poo, no idea why we got all excited about it". Am I close?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2014 23:35
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:Ukraine needs to let Russia split up its stacks and take attrition sieging their provinces for a while, before going on the offensive with their doomstack. Get me on the phone with Poroshenko. If it hasn't already. Ukraine should probably set Russia as a rival to help build relations with the USA, and then join or form a coalition against Russia. Also, scorch everything outside of Kyiv.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:09 |
|
|
Why does Russia want Estonia? Just because they love seeing their country's colour cover more of the map, or is there some benefit owning Estonia gives Russia that warrants risking WWIII that I'm missing? I guess it would increase the number of ethnic Russians inside of Russia, but if that's their goal, they could just swallow up Belarus and half of Kazakhstan and get the same result with much less risk of going to war with NATO.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 3, 2014 05:25
|
|