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http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/20/us/westboro-church-founder-dead/quote:Fred Phelps -- the founding pastor of a Kansas church known for its virulently anti-gay protests at public events, including military funerals -- has died, the church said Thursday. Hopefully the family church will fall apart now.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 16:53 |
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# ? May 7, 2024 09:57 |
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So is this the general celebrate Phelps' death in D&D thread or what?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:08 |
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Guy whose occupation was making people mad made people mad
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:09 |
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I guess god likes Sweden a tad bit more than he expected. Hehe, Good riddance. What baffles me about a man like that is how the hell can you go from being a civil rights lawyer to being a guy who brings "god hates fags" signs to soldier funerals.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:11 |
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:I guess god likes Sweden a tad bit more than he expected. Hehe, Good riddance. Supposedly he was racist as hell, but civil rights cases back when he started practicing law were actually fairly lucrative to take on, and the man wanted to get paid.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:13 |
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I guess god needed another angel
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:20 |
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In addition to the fact that civil rights cases had the potential to bring in money (especially since most lawyers in his area didn't want to take them on) I think that Phelp's may have transitioned gradually from being a lovely person to becoming the outright monster we all are familiar with. Based on descriptions of the Phelp's household that were given by estranged family members Fred took a lot of amphetamines to get through law school, and then he used barbiturates so that he could sleep. You can imagine how that kind of heavy drug abuse combined with stress and aging could lead to you becoming progressively more unhinged. He was also old enough to witness the culture wars in real time and you can imagine how traumatic an intense bigot like him to see how social mores and political attitudes changed between the 1960s and the 1990s, which is the time when he went totally bat poo poo.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:21 |
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A Winner is Jew posted:Supposedly he was racist as hell, but civil rights cases back when he started practicing law were actually fairly lucrative to take on, and the man wanted to get paid. According to his estranged son, Nate, who has been the sort of anti-Phelps. There's really no way to tell either way - he could be an opportunistic racist who could keep his mouth shut, or he could be a complex person with no racial bigotry aside his massive sexual bigotry. If he was really motivated by money there are more lucrative law specializations he could have pursued than civil rights cases. If he was racist, it would probably crop up more in his preaching since it's evident he clearly didn't care what the community thought of him. My point is nobody can really extrapolate such a thing since he was such a lovely person anyway. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Mar 21, 2014 |
# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:26 |
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If God really had hated Fred Phelps, He would have kept Phelps alive long enough to see SCOTUS strike down all the gay marriage bans.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:43 |
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Has there ever been a more irrelevant public figure who has garnered this much attention?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:52 |
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I don't think Phelps was irrelevant to the people who had their loved one's funerals picketed. And while I agree that his story might not have been of national importance he was a pretty fascinating guy and I think its understandable why people would be curious about him.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:58 |
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Crossposting from GBS http://thegaychristian.com/fred-phelps-lets-picket-funeral-love/ quote:Fred Phelps, organizer and leader of the hate-filled Westboro Baptist Church, is reported on his death bed at the moment. It is news that is quickly spreading throughout social media, with flagrant tweets and Facebook statuses that are somewhat amusing, yet slightly disheartening.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 17:58 |
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Judakel posted:Has there ever been a more irrelevant public figure who has garnered this much attention? The thing is that there is something there for everyone to hate. Soldiers are held as sacred to the right and gay rights are a huge issue on the left. And you'll find not many people have no strong opinions on both of those issues. He did a really good job trolling. Lucrative too, since they would sue everybody who took their bait.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:04 |
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Helsing posted:I don't think Phelps was irrelevant to the people who had their loved one's funerals picketed. And while I agree that his story might not have been of national importance he was a pretty fascinating guy and I think its understandable why people would be curious about him. Yet still largely irrelevant to anyone outside that small circle. His lack of a coherent message put him on the level of a pop culture oddity. Shbobdb posted:The thing is that there is something there for everyone to hate. Soldiers are held as sacred to the right and gay rights are a huge issue on the left. And you'll find not many people have no strong opinions on both of those issues. He did a really good job trolling. Lucrative too, since they would sue everybody who took their bait. He did an excellent job grabbing for that money. All of his protests were ultimately lawsuit bait.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:06 |
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A good racket really, you bait people into taking a swing at you and then you sue the poo poo out of them. The speech is protected for the most part, assault isn't.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:15 |
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Judakel posted:Yet still largely irrelevant to anyone outside that small circle. His lack of a coherent message put him on the level of a pop culture oddity. People love talking about pop culture oddities. What exactly is your point?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:21 |
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Helsing posted:People love talking about pop culture oddities. What exactly is your point? Fred Phelps shouldn't be given a modicum of serious consideration in our nation's social discourse. He was so transparently motivated by money that it is difficult to argue that Phelps was even representative of anti-gay sentiment in the US during his lifetime. So outlandish was his presence in the media that one cannot even discern what his overall purpose was, beyond baiting people into civil lawsuits. He attacked anything that moved, whatever was a hot topic. I don't for one second believe Phelps ever gave a drat about any of the things he claimed to stand against. He was a huckster whose group was largely a means for him to sue people and make a few bucks. Judakel fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 21, 2014 |
# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:27 |
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I'm glad he's dead, I wish he had died earlier. I'd also be glad if William Melchert-Dinkel died. I support both Phelps' and Melcher-Dinkel's right to free speech, and simultaneously welcome their deaths (by natural causes only, of course).
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:31 |
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Nckdictator posted:Crossposting from GBS This is what a real Christian believes. I love it. What better way to erase Phelps' awful legacy?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:39 |
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If I'm going to wish for anybody's death, I'd start with a few people on the Supreme Court. Worse baddies out there, sure, but if those people were removed the country would be substantially better off. Which makes me wonder why there haven't been any assassinations of high level judges in America. Their security seems to be much less than other politicians and the "activist judges" rhetoric seems fertile ground for some unhinged lunatic to latch onto.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:40 |
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SedanChair posted:I'm glad he's dead, I wish he had died earlier. Gary Aldridge natural causes?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:43 |
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Helsing posted:I don't think Phelps was irrelevant to the people who had their loved one's funerals picketed. And while I agree that his story might not have been of national importance he was a pretty fascinating guy and I think its understandable why people would be curious about him. Who would be irrelevant by this definition? Essentially everyone has impacted someones life in some way. Majorian posted:This is what a real Christian believes. I love it. What better way to erase Phelps' awful legacy? Except that assumes the guy was actually doing it for any reason but the love of money. "Fighting hate with Love" isn't going to do poo poo, sorry, except be a meaningless cliche that falls apart in the real world in seconds.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:52 |
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Shbobdb posted:If I'm going to wish for anybody's death, I'd start with a few people on the Supreme Court. Worse baddies out there, sure, but if those people were removed the country would be substantially better off. Maybe their security isn't as lax as you think it is? Just because we don't hear about botched assassination attempts or people locked up for death threats against judges doesn't mean that they aren't happening.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 18:52 |
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So is this the general celebrate Phelps' death in D&D thread or what? We could debate the fact it makes no sense whatsoever that picketing a private individuals funeral is protected speech. I really have never heard an argument about it (that his sort of hate speech shouldn't be subject to the sensible laws most of europe has on it) that wasn't some form of a slippery slope argument. There's a large difference between political speech and what is essentially harassing non-public individuals. This sort of law wouldn't even have to ban people from picketing his funeral, as he made himself into a public figure.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 19:05 |
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There's a pretty good argument by SCOTUS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._Phelps WBC knows how to play the 'I'm not touching you' game well. They were far enough from the funeral to avoid that problem and they didn't directly picket the Snyder funeral to cause problems. Now if you want to argue MORALLY that they shouldn't do it, that's a whole other can of worms. What they did was deplorable but the first amendment isn't just there to defend pretty speech. Ask the ACLU. https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech-lgbt-rights/why-fred-phelpss-free-speech-rights-should-matter-us-all Stanos fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Mar 21, 2014 |
# ? Mar 21, 2014 20:16 |
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enbot posted:We could debate the fact it makes no sense whatsoever that picketing a private individuals funeral is protected speech. I really have never heard an argument about it (that his sort of hate speech shouldn't be subject to the sensible laws most of europe has on it) that wasn't some form of a slippery slope argument. There's a large difference between political speech and what is essentially harassing non-public individuals. What they did/do has much more in common with political speech than with fighting words or harassment. In the protest that spawned their SCOTUS case for example, their protest was held over 1000 feet away from the church and the plaintiff wasn't even aware of the content of the protest until he saw it on the news later. Why do you think it shouldn't be protected? Bad speech is okay, but this is really bad speech so it's not?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 20:18 |
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enbot posted:Except that assumes the guy was actually doing it for any reason but the love of money. "Fighting hate with Love" isn't going to do poo poo, sorry, except be a meaningless cliche that falls apart in the real world in seconds. I don't buy that he was doing it for the money. If that was what he cared about, there were way more lucrative ways he could have gone about what he did. I think he truly believed in what he said. As for "fighting hate with love" not doing poo poo, I'm not sure why you're saying that. Why wouldn't it be effective in this sense? Why wouldn't it show to the rest of the world that the LGBT community's values are much more in line with Christ's than the WBC?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 20:45 |
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Judakel posted:Fred Phelps shouldn't be given a modicum of serious consideration in our nation's social discourse. He was so transparently motivated by money that it is difficult to argue that Phelps was even representative of anti-gay sentiment in the US during his lifetime. So outlandish was his presence in the media that one cannot even discern what his overall purpose was, beyond baiting people into civil lawsuits. He attacked anything that moved, whatever was a hot topic. The problem, however, is that even though the Westboro Baptist Church was a tiny handful of people and Fred Phelps very possibly was just in it for money that there were a poo poo load of people who look at what they were up to and hear their message and go "yup, those are good people." While most people agree that the Westboro Baptist Church was a bunch of shitheads that were doing something wrong there were others that actually applauded them as crusaders defending the faith at all costs. On one hand people like Westboro being allowed to exist and say the things they did is a good measure of how much free speech actually exists but on the other hand they looked at where the lines were drawn and took a flying leap beyond them as far as they possibly could. These were awful people that did awful things.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 20:49 |
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enbot posted:
You fight hate with liveable working wages and a proper, secular education. It's no wonder countries that severely lack one or both tend to have more hate and violence.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 20:52 |
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Majorian posted:Why wouldn't it be effective in this sense? Why wouldn't it show to the rest of the world that the LGBT community's values are much more in line with Christ's than the WBC? Since when do people in America care about what Jesus actually preached? I'm pretty sure that there's been a bunch of threads on this subject already.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 20:56 |
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Shbobdb posted:If I'm going to wish for anybody's death, I'd start with a few people on the Supreme Court. Worse baddies out there, sure, but if those people were removed the country would be substantially better off. Some nice men from the government will be seeing you soon.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 21:01 |
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enbot posted:Who would be irrelevant by this definition? Essentially everyone has impacted someones life in some way. It's almost as if no human life can truly be called irrelevant. Except for foreigners, because everyone knows America is God's favorite country.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 21:14 |
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Nckdictator posted:Crossposting from GBS This is the dumbest idea in the world. Majorian posted:This is what a real Christian believes. I love it. What better way to erase Phelps' awful legacy? By just ignoring it all together?
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 21:18 |
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Majorian posted:As for "fighting hate with love" not doing poo poo, I'm not sure why you're saying that. Why wouldn't it be effective in this sense? Why wouldn't it show to the rest of the world that the LGBT community's values are much more in line with Christ's than the WBC? I'd assume that the WBC are so thoroughly reviled that you really don't need to try and show yourself to be better than them.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 21:42 |
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Walter posted:Some nice men from the government will be seeing you soon. I'm very much not calling for any violence. I'm just surprised with the anti-judge rhetoric that there hasn't been any violence. I mean, look at this. It's really crazy. A good thing, sure, but still surprising given the current political climate.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 22:01 |
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Majorian posted:This is what a real Christian believes. This sort of sidestepping "well in MY Bible Jesus was a Democrat" stuff that basically ignores the pressing issue of Christian homophobia by redefining it as not existing is a juvenile, unsound approach. If "real Christians" is to be defined as people who go to church weekly or people who are politically active in a religious group (or basically as anything more restrictive than "people who define themselves as Christians with no further requirements"), then, obviously, an overwhelming majority of them oppose gay marriage and most other gay rights, and they are the problem the gay rights movement is fighting against. This idea that you will change their minds by telling them you know their religion better than them is disingenuous.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 22:05 |
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Majorian posted:As for "fighting hate with love" not doing poo poo, I'm not sure why you're saying that. Why wouldn't it be effective in this sense? Why wouldn't it show to the rest of the world that the LGBT community's values are much more in line with Christ's than the WBC? It's fine, but it isn't necessary. They don't need to be in line with the values of Christ. LGBT people are just people, the only thing that makes them different from anybody else is that they are LGBT. They don't need to be exemplary or above anger or hatred to assert their rights, any more than black people needed to behave like saints in order to assert theirs. It's OK for people to have a range of opinions, and I think hatred towards people who espouse Phelps' view is also fine and serves a purpose.
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# ? Mar 21, 2014 22:06 |
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Nckdictator posted:Crossposting from GBS I'm so glad I was raised Jewish
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# ? Mar 22, 2014 04:48 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M
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# ? Mar 22, 2014 04:59 |
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# ? May 7, 2024 09:57 |
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Judakel posted:Has there ever been a more irrelevant public figure who has garnered this much attention? Princess Dumbass of the Northwoods.
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# ? Mar 22, 2014 05:03 |