|
Tide posted:(I'm terrible and not funny) finally something we can all agree on in the current events thread 
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 19:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 10:18 |
|
|
Tide posted:(I'm terrible and not funny)
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
Tide posted:If the implication was "work harder", I apologize, that's not my intent. I just meant "the jobs that will pay better than min wage are harder/more difficult than making coffee at starbucks" I worked anywhere from one to three jobs while attending college. My grades were poo poo and I hated every minute of those 4.5 years. I managed to pay off the debts after about 3 years of officer pay (2 of which I had a roommate to save BAH). I guess what I'm saying is gently caress off.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
psydude posted:I had my tuition paid for by the government, but even stringing together 20-25 hours a week between 3 above-minimum-wage part time jobs and my ROTC stipend was barely more than enough to pay for rent and food. What kind of scrub takes a ROTC deal that doesn't include a dorm room and meal plan
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:What kind of scrub takes a ROTC deal that doesn't include a dorm room and meal plan A lot of schools (read: liberal ones that don't support the military) don't give room and board to ROTC kids.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:What kind of scrub takes a ROTC deal that doesn't include a dorm room and meal plan When I was in ROTC I turned down the scholarship because I didn't want to serve an extra 2 years and I'd already gotten one from my school anyway. I wound up leaving after I realized what an awful financial decision the Guard is if you don't have one. At least for Army ROTC, reserve/national guard contracts are 6 years drilling/2 years IRR if you're not on a scholarship and 8 years drilling if you do have one. Active duty is 3 active/5 IRR without a scholarship and 4/4 with one. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
Genocide Tendency posted:I mean I get that you don't need to be a combat vet to have seen some poo poo in your time. And bad things happen to people. Hell, after getting hit by lightning, I'm not a big fan of finishing the back 9 when the afternoon storms come rolling in. But there comes a point where it is taken too far. Those people are waaaaaaaaay the gently caress past that point. fuckkkkk, what was that like? Did you get any sweet powers besides pissing your pants whenever someone turns on the microwave?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 21:18
|
|
|
Tide posted:There's been reports/studies done that correlate the incredible rise in tuition costs with the ease in which students are able to get student loans to cover it. You're a moron and should kill yourself.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 21:21
|
|
|
RichieHimself posted:fuckkkkk, what was that like? Did you get any sweet powers besides pissing your pants whenever someone turns on the microwave? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGR6Wk3Kboo
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r95a3p8Os-w 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
Tide posted:There's been reports/studies done that correlate the incredible rise in tuition costs with the ease in which students are able to get student loans to cover it. You'd be using 'People can't afford college anymore' as an intermediate mechanism to stymie costs, and as soon as people can afford to go to college more, prices would come back up because you'd lose that mechanism. You'd gently caress with way fewer people by just regulating how many wheelbarrows full of money college administrators can pay themselves per bi-weekly period and poo poo like that.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
I've yet to see a good article on why college costs keep going up, especially undergraduate. 100 people in a room that got paid off 70 years ago being taught by some TA making 12 bucks an hour somehow = exponential rise in fees over time assessed to those 100 people. Even in those rare rare classes where you have maybe 12 people facing an actual professor, that professor sure as hell is not taking a significant fraction of that cost.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 23:34
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:I've yet to see a good article on why college costs keep going up, especially undergraduate. 100 people in a room that got paid off 70 years ago being taught by some TA making 12 bucks an hour somehow = exponential rise in fees over time assessed to those 100 people. Even in those rare rare classes where you have maybe 12 people facing an actual professor, that professor sure as hell is not taking a significant fraction of that cost. it's because colleges are businesses meant to make money, not teach people. a business needs to continually increase profit, not let it plateau for the sake of some hokey bullshit like the social institution of producing trained and competent people to sustain the economy.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 23:43
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:I've yet to see a good article on why college costs keep going up, especially undergraduate. 100 people in a room that got paid off 70 years ago being taught by some TA making 12 bucks an hour somehow = exponential rise in fees over time assessed to those 100 people. Even in those rare rare classes where you have maybe 12 people facing an actual professor, that professor sure as hell is not taking a significant fraction of that cost. Quite curious about this as well 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 23:47
|
|
|
College prices are going up because demand is going up. More people are going to college; that's why you can't get a job based on your liberal arts degree anymore. It doesn't set you apart. e: actually don't really want to get into  territory
Mortabis fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 00:04
|
|
|
brains posted:it's because colleges are businesses meant to make money, not teach people. a business needs to continually increase profit, not let it plateau for the sake of some hokey bullshit like the social institution of producing trained and competent people to sustain the economy. People think because schools are 'non-profit' and often public that this isn't true. They don't get what the terms mean, and they're wrong. E: Mort has the right idea, just read the thing below This stuff is all pretty extensively documented, I'm on poo poo hotel internet right now and can't collect links but if you're curious I recommend tossing a couple bucks towards: http://www.amazon.com/Higher-Education-Bubble-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/1594036659 It's not a book, it's less than 60 pages so it's a quick read and goes over this stuff in detail.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 00:14
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:I've yet to see a good article on why college costs keep going up, especially undergraduate. 100 people in a room that got paid off 70 years ago being taught by some TA making 12 bucks an hour somehow = exponential rise in fees over time assessed to those 100 people. Even in those rare rare classes where you have maybe 12 people facing an actual professor, that professor sure as hell is not taking a significant fraction of that cost. Most professors are making less than 3k per semester class. That number has dropped significantly over the past 20 years.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 00:24
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:People think because schools are 'non-profit' and often public that this isn't true. They don't get what the terms mean, and they're wrong. Based on the summary I think this book gets into what I was hesitant to post about before, because it's kind of hot-button, but basically federally guaranteed student loans are a huge driver behind why so many people go to college now. There is no scrutiny over whether or not you will be able to pay your college loans back, because the feds guarantee it will be paid. That drives down interest rates and expands the availability of credit to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it, and that means people take out loans to pay for school that they can never pay back. And because so many people are going to school, prices are driven up, so those loans become astronomically huge. A high school student with a middling GPA and SAT scores is extended the same credit to go to a mediocre private liberal arts school to study gender studies that a top-tier student does to get a mechanical engineering degree at a good state university. The student who takes mechanical engineering at Virginia Tech is a lot more likely to pay those loans back than the gender studies student at Vassar or whatever. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 00:46 on May 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 00:44
|
|
|
When state schools say "we need tuition to go up" to their legislatures though, and post costs accordingly. http://www.washington.edu/discover/budget/ http://www.washington.edu/externalaffairs/files/2012/10/12_UW_Tuition_Increase.pdf If tuition rises are driven purely through supply and demand, as in "we can get more from these fuckers," then State colleges and universities across the country are engaging in literal, actual fraud in saying that their costs are rising. I am skeptical of assuming a widespread criminal conspiracy.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 00:54
|
|
|
It's also reduced state funding: This really isn't the best graph but I'm lazy. Funding for higher education's always been a bit of a soft target so it's been getting killed over the past few decades.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
If you're wondering why it's not really helping class size / teacher pay (especially for non-tenure / TAs) its because that stuff really does nothing to sell college A over college B. Realistically the number of kids and, perhaps more importantly, the number of parents who really really value the raw quality of education (as opposed to the signalling from having the correct school name on your diploma, which is very different) is pretty small, and the schools they're going to look at are pretty much predetermined. Schools are going to do what they can and need to do to game the US News & World Report ratings but beyond that it's a waste of cash to invest in undergrad academics. Instead, you see money sunk into what you see on promo videos and college tours - lavish buildings, fancy dorms, new sports facilities, 'world class physical fitness facilities' where you can peep dem yoga pants, etc. which have diddly to do with a student's potential for success post-graduation. Schools can say costs are rising, because without these luxuries they can't meet enrollment targets. There are a lot of factors to 'reduced state funding' that are mostly numbers games. I know my state school alma mater has roughly doubled undergraduate enrollment even since I went there; even with increases in total state funding, the amount per student has dropped. This only matters if you think all expenses are per-student (they're not) and not total overhead-related. The school did this rather nakedly as a way of bringing in extra money, knowing the difference would come from increased loans the students and their families would have to shoulder.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
RichieHimself posted:fuckkkkk, what was that like? Did you get any sweet powers besides pissing your pants whenever someone turns on the microwave? Supposedly it made me smarter to a minor but measurable degree. Which has been undone by multiple concussions since. Really the only thing interesting about it was I was one of 7 people hit and all of us have a different account of the sensation. That and one dude had his boots blown apart. I mean literally blew them into pieces.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 01:49
|
|
|
Genocide Tendency posted:Supposedly it made me smarter to a minor but measurable degree. Which has been undone by multiple concussions since.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
Genocide Tendency posted:Supposedly it made me smarter to a minor but measurable degree. Which has been undone by multiple concussions since. do air ionizers give you PTSD?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
There are no effective cost controls while society beats into your head for 18 years that if you don't got to college you'll never be more than a burger flipper
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 02:44
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:What kind of scrub takes a ROTC deal that doesn't include a dorm room and meal plan The only college I know of that does that is the lovely college in my hometown. Not even UMD does that, or at least they didn't when I was shopping around for schools. e: I tried searching around for some ROI comparisons between undergraduate and graduate. Graduate tuition and debt have also risen substantially, but I'm curious to see the actual value compared to the debt incurred. I have noticed that (in my field) having a master's degree will definitely still make you stand out if you have applicable work experience. psydude fucked around with this message at 03:03 on May 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 02:59
|
|
|
go3 posted:There are no effective cost controls while society beats into your head for 18 years that if you don't got to college you'll never be more than a burger flipper Perhaps we shouldn't do that then, since it's obviously not helping
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 04:02
|
|
|
It's generally true though. They just usually forget to mention that half the burger flippers did go to college.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
It's self-fulfilling, since when everyone is going to college, it makes the few that don't go look like weird defective outliers; combine this with mechanistic filtering by HR department drones or straight up computer algorithm filtering and you're cut before any meaningful eyes see anything else about you. It doesn't mean there's any meaningful requirement for the actual position or that whatever schooling you got has real value-add for it - that's part of how it's become more signaling than anything else, and a fantastically expensive form of it to boot. At best you showed the determination and drive to get through 4+ years of it, but at many schools that's hardly much of an accomplishment, minus the writing of the checks. Whether that's reversible, I don't know, but there are people trying (via substituting pre-employment standardized testing, expertise-based certificates, etc etc)
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 04:18
|
|
|
Some local SJWs have decided to open a social justice cafe in town. They might have had a shot if it was over by any of the colleges (Well there is a ripoff for-profit school over there with a bunch of unaccredited programs), but it's not so it'll probably crash and burn pretty quickly.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:Some local SJWs have decided to open a social justice cafe in town. They might have had a shot if it was over by any of the colleges (Well there is a ripoff for-profit school over there with a bunch of unaccredited programs), but it's not so it'll probably crash and burn pretty quickly. Do they have a website I'm sure its hilarious
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 04:29
|
|
|
PLANES CURE TOWERS posted:Do they have a website Back in January the proprietor of an import store who thought herself pretty forward thinking thought a good way to celebrate MLK day would be to declare a 25% off sale on "everything black". That was until it got blown out of proportion on social media and she got swarmed by SJWs telling her what an awful bitch she was for some reason or another.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 04:44
|
|
|
Courthouse posted:Back in world events, the Thai military has unilaterally declared martial law, put troops in the streets, and taken control of tv stations. So a typical Tuesday in Thailand Snowdens Secret posted:This was after an epidemic at the (mostly female) college of men supposedly getting gangraped in the showers by random roving packs of butch femmes. lol That feels like something that should be in the latest higher education satire film. TheOtherGypsy posted:A lot of schools (read: liberal ones that don't support the military) don't give room and board to ROTC kids. Hell, Iowa State (pretty far from a bastion of liberal "you're all babykillers" whatever) didn't give room and board to ROTC kids, scholarship or otherwise. In actual news, Boko Haram has been busy the past couple of days. Also this is from a few days ago but I didn't see it mentioned in the thread, we've been flying MC-12s over Nigeria gathering intel to help in the search for the missing girls, also flew a Global Chicken as well.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
psydude posted:You're right, it doesn't, but it also doesn't make you qualified to make blanket generalizations about how everyone could pay for college if they just knuckled down and chose to worked at a high paying job that only requires a high school education and also leaves time to complete coursework. I had my tuition paid for by the government, but even stringing together 20-25 hours a week between 3 above-minimum-wage part time jobs and my ROTC stipend was barely more than enough to pay for rent and food. You're both right, college is too expensive and I still want to punch entitled fucks in the face who decided to take out giant loans to pay for that too expensive history degree and now think the world is unfair because they have to pay those loans. edit: how the gently caress did a miss a whole page? quote:I've yet to see a good article on why college costs keep going up, especially undergraduate. 100 people in a room that got paid off 70 years ago being taught by some TA making 12 bucks an hour somehow = exponential rise in fees over time assessed to those 100 people. Even in those rare rare classes where you have maybe 12 people facing an actual professor, that professor sure as hell is not taking a significant fraction of that cost. There's more demand then supply (people are competing to get into these schools) and price doesn't effect demand because any 18 year old kid can go out and get loans for just about any amount in order to pay for it. Its like sub-prime mortgages all over again only this time since you can't have a degree foreclosed from your head so the loans are non-dischargable. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 06:05 on May 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 05:57
|
|
|
And, on top of that, it's the US Government holding the bag when everyone defaults, not the banks (bailouts notwithstanding)
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 06:09
|
|
|
tuluk posted:do air ionizers give you PTSD? No. But dealing with Payroll gives me flash backs to dealing with Finance who managed to always gently caress up my 1st and 15th. Which is waaaaaaaaay worse. On the serious side, I don't really have any ill effects that are more severe than all the other crazy poo poo that has happened to me. My heart was more damaged from defibs trying to revive me 3 or 4 times. My brain was more hosed up by all the concussions I have suffered. Drowning in a half frozen lake probably didn't do positive things for my health either. But outside of being a bit more careful when thunderstorms start rolling in, I'm not really bothered by it. I survived the first time, and if you aren't loving retarded, generally you don't get hit twice.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 12:38
|
|
|
I'm really amazed at how much press this VA stuff is getting from traditionally administration-friendly sources, considering how the whole thing is basically a ringing condemnation of government-run health care. Even if Shinseki goes, the problems predate him by a good amount, and there's no indication chair-swapping even at the top is going to do squat. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/18/exclusive-v-a-scandal-hits-new-hospital.html quote:Veterans with heart problems are waiting an average of four months to see a cardiologist at the Albuquerque VA, according to the doctor there who has access to patient records. Clearly the answer is to sign everybody up for that level of care, that way no one will have unrealistic expectations!
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 15:51
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:I'm really amazed at how much press this VA stuff is getting from traditionally administration-friendly sources, considering how the whole thing is basically a ringing condemnation of government-run health care. Even if Shinseki goes, the problems predate him by a good amount, and there's no indication chair-swapping even at the top is going to do squat. Whenever GBS (before the massive and long overdue house cleaning) brought up universal health care/government run health care/socialized medicine, I told them it was a terrible idea and would never work. Shouted down every fuckin time. Because working in the medical industry doesn't allow me to get a glimpse into how its run. And I am only one person so just because I have read about it/seen it/experienced it doesn't mean its a real problem. And its great health care for every one else but me... And this kind of poo poo doesn't happen. And the same assholes who can't pave loving roads right or balance a budget, or run a covert espionage program with out getting caught are more than capable of setting up a government controlled health care program. And The Affordable Care Act has gone so well... TLDR, GBS and the D&D fucks that used to run essentially every carebear Communism thread in it are retarded. I should go troll the gently caress out of their health care threads with this. But 
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
I wonder if it would make more sense to fold the VA healthcare into the existing ACA/medicaid programs that seem to have a better (but far from perfect) track record and a wider geographic coverage area.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 10:18 |
|
|
The difference there is the VA is an entirely government owned and run healthcare provider while Medicare/ACA stuff deal with the insurance side of the deal. I'm all for universal government run health insurance while keeping the providers, hospitals, clinics, whatever as private entities.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 17:27
|
|
