Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

psydude posted:

Yeah WTF is up with people in the West white-knighting Putin?

Strong horse

Also basically all the best parts of Communism without all that troublesome egalitarian dialectic

Somewhat less sarcastically, a stunning disgust with the percieved incompetency of their own leadership class.

Basically same as the reasons people white-knighted Hitler or any other tinpot tyrant they can't slap the 'noble savage' label on

Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Mar 30, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Missionary Positron
Jul 6, 2004
And now for something completely different

I really doubt Putin has any plans to invade Finland. The more likely scenario is that Putin wants to see Finland return back to its cold war status where the country was seemingly independent and neutral but Moscow still had disproportionate influence over Finland's internal politics. I don't really see that happening either unless Finland decides to leave the EU.

Still, it would've been nice if we hadn't cancelled the ATACMS contract :(. At least the JASSM deal is still going through as planned.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd

orange juche posted:

Edit: Much as all of the countries that border the South China Sea actually have no right to any of the body of water that is there nor the resources under it, it all belongs to China after all, according to 300+ year old maps, and furthermore


E2: May as well lump in the Sea of Japan as well, as that is owned by China on some old maps as well, I mean gently caress, just throw in everything west of Hawaii because China was probably there first.

Well you see, there is this line with nine ten dashes, and as we all know the international standard is to draw a line with dashes on it

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013

psydude posted:

Yeah WTF is up with people in the West white-knighting Putin?

Battered wife syndrome? A jealous wish that we too could return to forgotten glories through a bit of land grabbing? Envy at Russia having a leader capable of getting poo poo done? (provided you conveniently disregard that inconvenient mass corruption and repression).

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

psydude posted:

Yeah WTF is up with people in the West white-knighting Putin?

People suffer pretty staggering levels of cognitive dissonance in regards to political leaders. See: Obama

mambo italiano
Apr 4, 2009

go3 posted:

People suffer pretty staggering levels of cognitive dissonance in regards to political leaders. See: Obama

I'm honestly not trying to bait or derp. But can you provide examples? As I see it there are 2 theories; Obama has been screwed this whole time by congress and republican propaganda machine. Or Obama is a weak president and keeps going back on promises that he made during the election process.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

psydude posted:

Yeah WTF is up with people in the West white-knighting Putin?

He's anti-US, so obviously he's the good guy.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.

mambo italiano posted:

I'm honestly not trying to bait or derp. But can you provide examples? As I see it there are 2 theories; Obama has been screwed this whole time by congress and republican propaganda machine. Or Obama is a weak president and keeps going back on promises that he made during the election process.

Depends on what you're discussing: foreign or domestic policy. On the domestic front, he's been severely hampered by a recalcitrant Republican house whose only interest from day one was destroying him and his agenda. On the foreign policy front, he's really got nobody to blame but himself.

mambo italiano
Apr 4, 2009

psydude posted:

Depends on what you're discussing: foreign or domestic policy. On the domestic front, he's been severely hampered by a recalcitrant Republican house whose only interest from day one was destroying him and his agenda. On the foreign policy front, he's really got nobody to blame but himself.

Fair enough.it seemed He really lost faith with the rest of the world with the NSA spying scandal.

Job Creator
Apr 3, 2009

Obama is in a default position of weakness due to the instantaneous opposition any policy of his will receive from congress.

The country can't manage itself at the moment, let alone intervene in international matters.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.

mambo italiano posted:

Fair enough.it seemed He really lost faith with the rest of the world with the NSA spying scandal.

A lot of the "rage" is manufactured by foreign governments to distract from their own scandals. Anyone involved in the computer security industry has known about the NSA's involvement in the monitoring of domestic and foreign networks since 2006. And it's common knowledge that even allied governments spy on one another, so it's safe to assume that the intelligence agencies of developed nations have been aware of some of these capabilities for quite some time.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid

psydude posted:

On the domestic front, he's been severely hampered by a recalcitrant Republican house whose only interest from day one was destroying him and his agenda.

There was no Republican house in 2009, or even 40 Republican senators. For his first two years in office, his opposition was other Democrats and he really only has himself to blame.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

psydude posted:

And it's common knowledge that even allied governments spy on one another, so it's safe to assume that the intelligence agencies of developed nations have been aware of some of these capabilities for quite some time.

One could argue that (diplomatically) saying just that, instead of the "I had no idea, how could this happen, my own government is full of rogues!!!" message that was put out, would've given a much stronger sense of competence. You know if Putin got caught with his hands in the intel cookie jar, he'd be at best smirking as he uttered his obviously false apologies for not being sneakier.

One could also argue that if someone hadn't sent the NSA batshit spying on domestic American citizens at a time when politicization of generally neutral agencies is sky high, none of this foreign spying stuff would've ever seen the light of day.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.

Mortabis posted:

There was no Republican house in 2009, or even 40 Republican senators. For his first two years in office, his opposition was other Democrats and he really only has himself to blame.

Actually he did manage to get a lot of his key legislation passed during the first two years, the ACA, the ARRA, and other stimulus bills being chief among them.


Snowdens Secret posted:

One could also argue that if someone hadn't sent the NSA batshit spying on domestic American citizens at a time when politicization of generally neutral agencies is sky high, none of this foreign spying stuff would've ever seen the light of day.

Are you trying to blame his foreign policy on George W. Bush, then? The USAPATRIOT ACT and FISA Amendments Act were both signed by Bush, and the advanced NSA spying programs (including Stuxnet and Flame) were developed under him. If you're trying to make the case that he shouldn't have allowed it to keep going, then realize that no president in history has given up the power earned by his predecessors. This doesn't absolve him, or any other president, of the blame, but nobody should have been surprised when Mr. Hope didn't give a poo poo that our spy agency was vacuuming up the entire world's internet traffic under two frameworks that made it perfectly legal.

Sax Offender
Sep 9, 2007

College Slice

psydude posted:

Are you trying to blame his foreign policy on George W. Bush, then? The USAPATRIOT ACT and FISA Amendments Act were both signed by Bush, and the advanced NSA spying programs (including Stuxnet and Flame) were developed under him. If you're trying to make the case that he shouldn't have allowed it to keep going, then realize that no president in history has given up the power earned by his predecessors. This doesn't absolve him, or any other president, of the blame, but nobody should have been surprised when Mr. Hope didn't give a poo poo that our spy agency was vacuuming up the entire world's internet traffic under two frameworks that made it perfectly legal.

Your statement about presidents (or any executive) clinging to power is absolutely true, but it comes back to bite you harder if you campaigned that hard against such things and then expand them instead.

He comes off as incredibly ineffective with foreign policy (especially relative to his domestic agenda). His mouth writes a lot of checks that his rear end can't (or won't) cash. He never seems to be able to switch gears from a rhetorical standpoint from his Hope & Change Beginning Of History Progressive Messiah that served him well in two elections but doesn't click on the international stage. He also just never seems to get that even one line statements in a single interview really matter when it's coming from the president. You can't ad lib about a "red line" and then act amazed when it is perceived as firm policy and then weakness when you fail to enforce it. Maybe it goes back to the pretty obvious deficit in his public speaking when he goes off-script (or teleprompter). That's not a fatal flaw per se unless you engage in a lot of interviews and press conferences on hard topics outside of the (generally amicable) White House press corps.

I'm no GWB fan, believe me. But his dick-swinging cowboy routine was at least credible in the sense that you actually believed it when he said he'd use military force if you didn't get in line.

Obama also wasn't helped by all the hype culminating in the Nobel Peace Prize for not being Bush. There was no way he was going to live up to it.

FIDEL CASHFLOW
Oct 13, 2009
apparently the koreas are taking potshots at each other again :toot:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26815041

Iseeyouseemeseeyou
Jan 3, 2011

FIDEL CASHFLOW posted:

apparently the koreas are taking potshots at each other again :toot:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26815041

quote:

The latest incident comes days after North Korea test-fired two medium-range Nodong missiles over the sea, its first such launch since 2009.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus
They are both shooting artillery into the sea. The fish are the true victims of this war.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



ded posted:

They are both shooting artillery into the sea. The fish are the true victims of this war.

Should float greenpeace out there into the disputed waters between South Korea and best Korea, IMO.

Diarrhea Elemental
Apr 2, 2012

Am I correct in my assumption, you fish-faced enemy of the people?

FIDEL CASHFLOW posted:

apparently the koreas are taking potshots at each other again :toot:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26815041

That poo poo didn't even get a rise out of these mogoloid ADA dudes, call me when we've at least achieved a chubby.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013

Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:

quote:

The latest incident comes days after North Korea test-fired two medium-range Nodong missiles over the sea, its first such launch since 2009.

Oh, best Korea. Never change. :allears:

Genocide Tendency
Dec 24, 2009

I get mental health care from the medical equivalent of Skillcraft.


orange juche posted:

Should float greenpeace out there into the disputed waters between South Korea and best Korea, IMO.

I'm pretty sure you can convince a boat full of them to head out and protest.

And while only a boat full, at least its a start.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

psydude posted:

Actually he did manage to get a lot of his key legislation passed during the first two years, the ACA, the ARRA, and other stimulus bills being chief among them.

That stuff wasn't exactly smooth even within his own party. Obama's 'Hope and Change' gimmick notwithstanding, his domestic agenda wasn't helped by people grossly overestimating what power a former one-term junior Senator was going to have with Congress. The same people also misunderstood that the 2008 election wasn't a mandate for the Democrats to govern, only that the Republicans had to go.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

go3 posted:

That stuff wasn't exactly smooth even within his own party. Obama's 'Hope and Change' gimmick notwithstanding, his domestic agenda wasn't helped by people grossly overestimating what power a former one-term junior Senator was going to have with Congress. The same people also misunderstood that the 2008 election wasn't a mandate for the Democrats to govern, only that the Republicans had to go.

Beating the Republicans in 2008 after Bush is as impressive as getting a girl to talk to you in a strip club while wearing a sports coat made of $100 bills.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country

go3 posted:

That stuff wasn't exactly smooth even within his own party. Obama's 'Hope and Change' gimmick notwithstanding, his domestic agenda wasn't helped by people grossly overestimating what power a former one-term junior Senator was going to have with Congress. The same people also misunderstood that the 2008 election wasn't a mandate for the Democrats to govern, only that the Republicans had to go.

Honestly, I think most people who bought into the Hope and Change™ shtick didn't realize that the president is extremely limited with what he can and can't do.

EDIT: In other news, CNN reporting that Putin's pulling back some troops from the Ukraine border.

BigDave fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Mar 31, 2014

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
Aaaaand now he's a good guy.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Well screw this...apparently Obamas going to give Pollard to the Israelis....for vague promises...which they're never going to never follow.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/world/middleeast/jonathan-pollard.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

RoyKeen
Jul 24, 2007

Grimey Drawer

gfanikf posted:

Well screw this...apparently Obamas going to give Pollard to the Israelis....for vague promises...which they're never going to never follow.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/world/middleeast/jonathan-pollard.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

To bad we can take him back when the Israelies don't follow through.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

The Ape of Naples posted:

To bad we can take him back when the Israelies don't follow through.

Yeah, and for such low hanging goddamn fruit. rear end in a top hat originally tried selling secrets to three other countries before the Israelis and the Israelis apparently passed his stuff along to the Soviets too. As a American Jew, his cause celebre status drives me up a goddamn wall, especially when other Jewish Americans push it.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.
Pollard is up for parole next year anyway and would be likely to be granted it (his health is bad.) I see no reason to trade him now.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Snowdens Secret posted:

Pollard is up for parole next year anyway and would be likely to be granted it (his health is bad.) I see no reason to trade him now.

Agreed. I don't understand why or who thought this was a good idea. I talked to a friend who used to be in State and she was pretty floored (she hadn't read the reports yet) that it was even being considered. Pollard in the past has been enough to get officials to threaten resignation when there were talks of releasing him at various points.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


Hopefully there isn't some queer/weabo lobby in 10 years time to advocate for the Mannings and Snowdens off the world.

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011


Pork Pro

Casimir Radon posted:

Hopefully there isn't some queer/weabo lobby in 10 years time to advocate for the Mannings and Snowdens off the world.

That already exists and is called tumblr/twitter

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Booblord Zagats posted:

That already exists and is called tumbler/twitterD&D.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

Casimir Radon posted:

Hopefully there isn't some queer/weabo lobby in 10 years time to advocate for the Mannings and Snowdens off the world.

Too late.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
South Korea found a drone near their sea border with the North

quote:

A local resident found the drone on Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea on Monday, when the two Koreas traded hundreds of rounds of artillery fire in the area, defense ministry spokesman Kwon Ki-hyeon said.

"The military authorities recovered parts of the drone for investigation," he said.

He declined to give any further details, such as which country might have dispatched the drone.

South Korea's Yonhap News Agency, citing unnamed government sources, reported that the drone matched another one that Seoul suspects had been sent by North Korea before slamming into a hill north of the South Korean capital last month.

The report said the latest drone had a Japanese-made engine and various Chinese-made parts.

FIDEL CASHFLOW
Oct 13, 2009
Monster kill:

http://n.pr/1fK4D6D


E: thanks oj, phone postin sucks

FIDEL CASHFLOW fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 1, 2014

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012




quote:

Lt. Col. Richard Slack, the marksman's commanding officer, tells the Telegraph that the bullet apparently set off explosives in a vest that the targeted man was wearing. Or, perhaps the man fell on the trigger.

"The sniper engaged him and the guy exploded," Slack says in the Telegraph's report. "There was a pause on the radio and the sniper said, 'I think I've just shot a suicide bomber.' The rest of them were killed in the blast."

According to Slack, the suspected Taliban fighters were engaged in a firefight with British and Afghan forces when the sniper fired on them from about 930 yards away.

The same sniper, Slack says, has also killed a Taliban machine-gunner with a shot fired from 1,465 yards away — only 300 yards short of a mile.


this owns

orange juche fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Apr 1, 2014

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd

Also I came across a pretty detailed article in GQ about the Bastion attack...interesting reading.

  • Locked thread