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FIDEL CASHFLOW posted:Monster kill: Life imitates art.
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# ? Apr 1, 2014 18:51 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 09:57 |
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quote:NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, speaking to reporters in Brussels at the start of a two-day meeting of NATO foreign ministers Tuesday, said Russia’s “massive military buildup” remains in place. Russia has insisted that the troops are conducting a training exercise. quote:Russian energy giant Gazprom has announced a more than 40 percent increase in the price of gas exports to Ukraine, scrapping a previous discount amid mounting strains between the two countries. http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_108501.htm : quote:3. In order to demonstrate our commitment to Ukraine, we will intensify our cooperation in the framework of our Distinctive Partnership. Today NATO and Ukraine have agreed, as set out in the statement by the NATO-Ukraine Commission, to implement immediate and longer-term measures in order to strengthen Ukraine’s ability to provide for its own security.
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# ? Apr 1, 2014 19:27 |
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Has Russia shut down our ability to ship hardware from Afghanistan through their territory yet? Because that seems like a pretty obvious and expensive way to gently caress with us.
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# ? Apr 1, 2014 20:25 |
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Whip Slagcheek posted:Has Russia shut down our ability to ship hardware from Afghanistan through their territory yet? Because that seems like a pretty obvious and expensive way to gently caress with us. Also a good thing to hold over the heads of American decision makers to make them think twice about making any sanctions too effective. There's not much for Russia to gain from deepening the sanctions war.
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# ? Apr 1, 2014 20:33 |
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^^^ I haven't seen anything about it but this mentions Afghanistan: Chalk this up as another of the many, many things getting neglected by State while they focus on Israel / Palestine talks that will never go anywhere: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/world/asia/years-after-obama-hailed-warming-ties-with-india-the-temperature-has-fallen.html quote:The United States and India have found themselves on opposite sides of the world’s most important diplomatic issues, from the crisis in Ukraine, in which India came to Russia’s defense, to a long-awaited vote to investigate Sri Lanka’s government for atrocities committed at the end of its civil war (India abstained). Even critical military coordination over the reduction of troops in nearby Afghanistan has suffered. It looks pretty likely that the next Indian Prime Minister is going to be a guy we've routinely denied a visa to, so I wouldn't expect him to go out of his way to boost relations.
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# ? Apr 1, 2014 20:34 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:^^^ I haven't seen anything about it but this mentions Afghanistan: India has historically supported the Also, Looks like the Norks have discovered RC airplane technology.
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# ? Apr 1, 2014 22:56 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:^^^ I haven't seen anything about it but this mentions Afghanistan: Looks like Abbas started acting too much like the leader of a real nation with real interests and scotched the talks before Pollard got to taste any of that sweet, sweet Israeli air: quote:Abbas Takes Defiant Step, and Mideast Talks Falter What a lovely deal. gently caress Pollard, I'm glad that Abbas kicked these pointless talks in the balls.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 07:09 |
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Zeroisanumber posted:Looks like Abbas started acting too much like the leader of a real nation with real interests and scotched the talks before Pollard got to taste any of that sweet, sweet Israeli air: Amen, I mean I guess I could see it if it was some final status agreement that resolved anything, and I'd still be annoyed, but for this low hanging bullshit, gently caress that. It also doesn't help that the intelligence community is still nuclear to the idea of releasing him. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/01/us-israel-palestinian-usa-pollard-idUSBREA3023020140401 quote:Some intelligence veterans privately acknowledge that with Pollard having served nearly three decades and being eligible for parole in November 2015, this time it may be harder to convince the Obama administration to drop the idea.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 12:33 |
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Zeroisanumber posted:Looks like Abbas started acting too much like the leader of a real nation with real interests and scotched the talks before Pollard got to taste any of that sweet, sweet Israeli air: Abbas ran from the talks at the earliest opportunity because he doesn't actually want a peace deal, and neither do the Palestinians. He's not willing to agree to something as basic as recognizing the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. When you insist on regular releases of prisoners and in some cases even your final bargaining position as a precursor to even coming to the table you're not negotiating in good faith.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 13:37 |
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So I get that this Pollard guy was spying for Israel and possibly a bunch of other countries but why are people who are still active spies/in the intelligence community so mad that he might be released?
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 13:41 |
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Pollard exists in a Snowdenesque state where some people think he was an idealist working past stupid rules to help an ally, and some people think he's a two-bit crook who fashioned an altruistic alibi after he was caught. There are good arguments for both. It's worth noting that, while he's kind of the Mumia of American Jewry, big chunks of Israelis didn't think he was worth the trade, and even Pollard thought the deal was too lovely to go for.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 14:10 |
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Mortabis posted:Abbas ran from the talks at the earliest opportunity because he doesn't actually want a peace deal, and neither do the Palestinians. He's not willing to agree to something as basic as recognizing the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. When you insist on regular releases of prisoners and in some cases even your final bargaining position as a precursor to even coming to the table you're not negotiating in good faith. Like the Israelis have been negotiating in good faith since what...1998 perhaps (and that might be a bit generous). Syncopated posted:So I get that this Pollard guy was spying for Israel and possibly a bunch of other countries but why are people who are still active spies/in the intelligence community so mad that he might be released? This should help http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...nathan-pollard/ quote:To give you a sense of that, here is a (far from complete) list of things U.S. officials and former officials have said about Pollard. Please note, this isn't designed to be a fair and balanced portrayal of Pollard's case (you can read a broader overview here), nor to offer an accurate impression of his character. Instead, this post is designed to show the genuine vitriol with which the U.S. government community sees him. Snowdens Secret posted:Pollard exists in a Snowdenesque state where some people think he was an idealist working past stupid rules to help an ally, and some people think he's a two-bit crook who fashioned an altruistic alibi after he was caught. There are good arguments for both. Snowdens Secret posted:It's worth noting that, while he's kind of the Mumia of American Jewry, big chunks of Israelis didn't think he was worth the trade, and even Pollard thought the deal was too lovely to go for. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 2, 2014 |
# ? Apr 2, 2014 14:36 |
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Mortabis posted:He's not willing to agree to something as basic as recognizing the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. Except it isn't very basic at all. The recognition of Israel as the Jewish homeland by Palestine has only become a non-negotiable point under Netanyahu. Mostly for a few reasons, one is that it serves as a great stumbling block for any chance of successful peace talks. Two is that it makes the Palestinians seem unreasonable when Netanyahu goes around on his PR tours and says "Aww shucks just accept Israel for being Jewish and everything will be fine." And third is that if Palestine recognized Israel as the Jewish Homeland, every displaced Palestinian refugee would lose their Right of Return, and any compensation they may receive from Israel for illegally removing them from their historic homeland. Also Jewish homeland should never be confused with recognition as a legitimate state. The PLO already recognizes Israel as a state under the Oslo agreement.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 14:54 |
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Well that's probably enough I/P talk for one year. Now for current events!quote:Calling the situation “incredibly concerning”, NATO’s supreme allied commander in Europe, U.S. Air Force General Philip Breedlove, said NATO had spotted signs of movement by a very small part of the Russian force overnight but had no indication that it was returning to barracks… sux2bTurkey quote:The latest research from YouGov shows that most Americans (60%) still support the American commitment to defend NATO allies if they are under attack, while 17% say that it is no longer necessary. Support is highest among Republicans (65%) and lowest among Independents (56%), while 60% of Democrats support the NATO commitment. I'd consider the fact that two of five Americans either think we shouldn't automatically defend a NATO ally, or are at best ambivalent about it, to be pretty loving discouraging. Also Americans have no loving clue who NATO is.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 15:30 |
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Actually I'm linking those survey results directly because they have other gems: http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/9guwir1v5e/tabs_OPI_nato_20140331.pdf Namely that a majority of women are unsure / opposed, a majority of 44 and under (too young to be Viet vets) and that the 'Murrica Midwest is more war-uneasy than the Northeast and West Coast, who are just as militant as the South. (This assumes the methodology isn't doodoo and the survey sizes are significant.)
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 16:02 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:Actually I'm linking those survey results directly because they have other gems: Well, it is an online poll so take it with a grain of salt, but those are getting more and more accurate. Re: Turkey, I think this chart is also interesting as it reminds me of a lot of issues in America where Americans don't actually understand what they are agreeing to.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 16:57 |
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Trabisnikof posted:Well, it is an online poll so take it with a grain of salt, but those are getting more and more accurate. Re: Turkey, I think this chart is also interesting as it reminds me of a lot of issues in America where Americans don't actually understand what they are agreeing to. Well they agree with the principle, it's just that for certain countries, Americans, feel that they can also get hosed. I also think part of it is that the questions asks about NATO as a whole entity, if you will, generally it presumes mass conflict across numerous fronts. The other questions are focused on a localized one country issue. You can argue (rightly or wrongly) that the stakes matter more in the multiple front example vs a single country.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:07 |
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gfanikf posted:Well they agree with the principle, it's just that for certain countries, Americans, feel that they can also get hosed. The wording of the question actually asked makes it a little less ambiguous that is asking about any NATO member (which is why you should never trust polls that don't release questions and numbers of answers). quote:As a member of the NATO alliance, an attack on one of the NATO members is considered to be an attack on the U.S. and the U.S. is obligated to come to the defense of the NATO member that has been attacked. Do you think the U.S. should maintain it’s commitment to defend NATO allies when attacked or is this no longer necessary?
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:15 |
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There were apparently other subquestions like "Would you support defending Great Britain against attack" getting quite a bit more support than "Would you support defending Great Britain against attack by Russia." I'm of the opinion that it's part of the government higher-ups' jobs to convey the importance of our international diplomatic priorities, including treaty obligations, so this looks like a pretty big failure there.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:15 |
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gfanikf posted:There are far far better arguments for the latter than the former. He tried selling poo poo to a bunch of different people, including the Pakistanis. His stuff also wound up with the Soviets, which the Israeli's willing gave to them and was also lost by Soviet penetration of the Mossad. Pollard stole more than anyone else had in such a short time, with the exception of Snowden. The Israelis installed a high speed copier in a secure apartment because he was bringing them so much stuff (stuff beyond "oh America should have been giving us this anyway"), including the NSA's Signals Intelligence Bible. The US also started losing a lot of intelligence channels because of Pollard, sources that started closing up. And just to add to this, even if none of that was true, just the simple fact of revealing unsanitized stuff, even if it was the same basic info that we were sharing with Israel, would reveal means and methods, which in many cases is more valuable than the information itself. gently caress Pollard, he deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his life and it pisses me off that he's eligible for parole next year because of that rule. Snowdens Secret posted:Also Americans have no loving clue who NATO is. That's really what it comes down to...I guarantee you that if the poll asked a follow up question with "is this country a member of NATO" the only ones who would break 50% correct would be the UK and France. Also that most Americans have no clue of how Article V works. Trabisnikof posted:Well, it is an online poll so take it with a grain of salt, but those are getting more and more accurate. Re: Turkey, I think this chart is also interesting as it reminds me of a lot of issues in America where Americans don't actually understand what they are agreeing to. Like I said, I'd be willing to guess that around 85% of Americans have no clue about how Article V actually works.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:24 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:There were apparently other subquestions like "Would you support defending Great Britain against attack" getting quite a bit more support than "Would you support defending Great Britain against attack by Russia." How is the majority of Americans approving of maintaining our treaty obligations a failure of public opinion? This country has always had an isolationist streak. Also the way the survey was conducted, the respondents were asked about NATO last and none of the other questions mention NATO in them. Likely people didn't realize that the countries they wouldn't want to defend are actually in NATO (I mean, Turkey is hardly Northern nor Atlantic). Remember, we have poor geographic literacy here.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:26 |
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Trabisnikof posted:How is the majority of Americans approving of maintaining our treaty obligations a failure of public opinion? This country has always had an isolationist streak. Look at the numbers again, majority support is only among ages 45 and up. Or roughly the people who reached draft age before the Wall fell. I think that's a pretty telling line.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:35 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:Look at the numbers again, majority support is only among ages 45 and up. Or roughly the people who reached draft age before the Wall fell. I think that's a pretty telling line. what's the free market solution
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:39 |
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I'm going to let Israel/Palestine chat continue in here for now. But if the thread gets shitted up and brings in all of the unsavory D&D elements I'm going to kill it like Amadou Diallo.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:52 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:Look at the numbers again, majority support is only among ages 45 and up. Or roughly the people who reached draft age before the Wall fell. I think that's a pretty telling line. Uh...no? Majority support is amongst 18-29 year olds @ 58%, only drops to 48% amongst 30-44 year olds.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:56 |
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Did Americans come out in support of defending Canada? I don't think we can stop the Russians at the pole ourselves.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:56 |
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I'm going to let Israel/Palestine chat continue in here for now. But if the thread gets shitted up and brings in all of the unsavory D&D elements I'm going to kill it like Amadou Diallo. Shoulda said 'killed it like Muhammad Al-Dura', a totally missed opportunity
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:57 |
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Trabisnikof posted:Uh...no? Majority support is amongst 18-29 year olds @ 58%, only drops to 48% amongst 30-44 year olds. You're right, I was looking at the Britain numbers on my phone thinking they were the NATO ones. My mistake.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 17:59 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:You're right, I was looking at the Britain numbers on my phone thinking they were the NATO ones. My mistake. Which honestly I kinda find hilarious that people wouldn't be in favor of defending Britain from Russia.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 18:01 |
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Frosted Flake posted:Did Americans come out in support of defending Canada? Yes, but only to protect our foreign Maple Syrup and Tim Hortons interests.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 18:19 |
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Frosted Flake posted:Did Americans come out in support of defending Canada? Anyone getting a significant invasion force anywhere near North America is gonna get nuked.
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 18:20 |
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Zeroisanumber posted:Anyone getting a significant invasion force anywhere near North America is gonna get nuked. Eh, we might let Mexico fall if it were to someone we could negotiate it with
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 19:27 |
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Booblord Zagats posted:Eh, we might let Mexico fall if it were to someone we could negotiate it with Who the gently caress would want mexico?
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 19:33 |
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Booblord Zagats posted:Eh, we might let Mexico fall if it were to someone we could negotiate it with Where else would we get our cheap labor and sell our extra guns?
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 19:36 |
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ded posted:Who the gently caress would want mexico? China after they find out how easy/hot mexican chicks are and delicious sopapillas are
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 19:38 |
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Booblord Zagats posted:China after they find out how easy/hot mexican chicks are and delicious sopapillas are China's all over Central America and frankly those foods / women are better
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 19:43 |
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iyaayas01 posted:And just to add to this, even if none of that was true, just the simple fact of revealing unsanitized stuff, even if it was the same basic info that we were sharing with Israel, would reveal means and methods, which in many cases is more valuable than the information itself. I actually did something rather spergy yesterday and called up the Chairs of the House and Senate Intelligence committee (and a few other members) to complain about Pollard. I also found that apparently John Walker is up for parole next year too. I thought he wasn't eligible for parole..hell same with Pollard too...granted I keep expecting Walker to be dead due to his cancer. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 2, 2014 |
# ? Apr 2, 2014 19:57 |
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http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04/nasa-must-immediately-cease-all-contact-with-russia/quote:A leaked memo from NASA HQ this morning instructs NASA employees and contractors to sever communication with Russian government representatives due to Russia's "ongoing violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity."
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 21:21 |
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It's a good thing we have our own method of putting people into space, oh wait
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 21:25 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 09:57 |
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Maybe this will finally light a fire under Congress's rear end to fund NASA more
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# ? Apr 2, 2014 21:25 |