Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
A lack of data isn't the loving problem with modern economics, or economies.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

There's probably more important and relevant work being done; economics isn't my area. But I don't think its controversial to claim that there's a general acknowledgement that the foundations of economic theory are impoverished.
And you think the solution is to track everything everyone does so we have more data than we could conceivably analyse.

quote:

I've already cited John Baez's attempts at unification through network theory, which is a huge inspiration.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks/
http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.0340
I've met Baez, and I've used a bunch of his topological stuff in quantum computing. He's doing real science, you're spouting bullshit.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Obdicut posted:

Stephenson is cool and all but actually fleshing out all aspects of the system is not something he really rules at.
It's also a sci-fi book, and not a plan to have a plan to change economics.

fermun posted:

Wouldn't this idea result in a single monolithic megacorp since there'd be advantage to everyone to couple to a larger and larger corporate entity?
Corporations are just formed spontaneously out of other interactions though.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

The consensus of the forum seems to be that if you aren't an expert then you shouldn't say anything.
The consensus is that if you aren't an expert in a field then you probably shouldn't be trying to work at the cutting edge of that field.

quote:

I've repeatedly insisted that the proposal is not intended as a solution to any problem.
If it's not a solution to problems, why bring up problems like nepotism and inequality?

Hell, if it isn't a solution, why bring it up at all? What's the motivation for the idea?

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

I was thinking about this post in particular:

He meant it as a criticism, of course.

Now I'd like to work on developing the nepotism example, because I thinks its the most interesting outstanding question of the many dozen that are still left open.
Saying "this isn't really a currency" is completely different from saying "this isn't economics".

That poster didn't say this wasn't economics, they said it wasn't a currency and that you hadn't considered a whole bunch of basic economic concepts like supply and demand.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

The only thing worth correcting here is the "true nature" thing. I'm not saying that these relationships are somehow more real than models of relationships, but only that they are different, and that having access to different economic signals in a transaction will generate different economic behavior.

I'm confused, I thought it wasn't about economics?

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Slanderer posted:

I pay attention to A Thing, therefore it is Important.

A Thing is Important, therefore I must pay attention to it.

The weighted distribution for my attention is determined by...

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

Homeless or destitute people, for instance, might have an easier time finding coalitions of support than in a traditional economic framework. Why? Well, first because the cost to anyone helping that person is distributed across the network in a way that minimizes the burden that anyone would bear in the process; in other words, it's in people's interest to help because of the incentive structure of Strangecoin.
State-funded homeless shelters already spread and minimise the burden, and it's already possible to find (or conduct) studies that show that greater social mobility and equality are economically beneficial to society.

The problem with helping the homeless isn't working out who needs help, it's convincing the large number of people who think that it isn't a problem, or that those who are unfortunate in life deserve it.

That's one of the main problems with your ideas: you think the problem is that we don't have sufficient data on what is going on in the world at the moment, and that the best way to get more data is to massively transform society rather than to use existing approaches to research. Why is data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (Omniscient AI division) going to convince people that food stamps and unemployment benefits are good things when they aren't convinced by the existing reams of information?

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
ignore

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

It is derived.
More accurately, you hope it can be derived.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
I'm remembering the Thanksgiving discussion in a previous Eripsa thread.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

midnightclimax posted:

I haven't read it, but art would be a better place for his ideas. He's in love with language, the only thing that attracts him to science is probably its status.

Part 1 of the story.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Badera posted:

I actually think that this incredibly painful-to-read derail has improved the thread.

Erispa's stuff sometimes indirectly leads to finding out interesting things, this is just a boring rehashed slapfight.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
This problem clearly must be solved a radical reworking of all social and economic interactions and not, you know, better campaign finance disclosure laws.

I am also proposing to put in place satellite-based lasers capable of starting my BBQ.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Kane posted:

There are 50 pages here and about one or two relevant posts per page. And while my curiosity and desire for constructive discussion is limitless, my time is not.
It averages out like that perhaps, but there are large sections of relevance, including someone attempting an implementation. The fact that Eripsa has provided an incomplete and inconsistent spec that he is still trying to work out is one thing worth remembering.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

RealityApologist posted:

I've said many times that Strangecoin isn't meant to limit the accumulation of power; it only constrains how that power develops, and the consequences that development has on the other economic agents. My goal isn't to fix the problems in one utopian swoop, but only to provide a tool for analyzing these relations, in the hopes that another tool might help.
You are arguing that we need new tools when you don't even understand the current ones. You're trying to mathematically model an economic system despite not understanding the maths or economics you want to use.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

eviltastic posted:

Having skimmed the revised spec I am still not clear on how third party information is conveyed, and this is absolutely critical to predicting behavior! The examples read like the actors are operating on perfect information, but I don't see defined mechanism for acquiring it other than engaging in a transaction.

The Marble / Attention Economy he proposed had a similar issue: there was a complicated, poorly defined way of tracking every activity in society and then the information was just handed off to the internet / a strong AI.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Crowsbeak posted:

Who the gently caress did that?

Eripsa wanted to make a game called Swarm!

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Wee Tinkle Wand posted:

It looks like they vanished Eripsa from the Synero stuff. Wonder if he got too crazy for them.

He's still tweeting about it.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

eXXon posted:

You guys missed the part where you can opt out of AMP'd advertising. Because it's decentralized you see.

How many merits does that cost me?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

  • Locked thread