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Okay, I think I understand.quote:I find the practice of writing for a hostile audience useful for improving my writing and making my ideas more comprehensible. As I said, I'm okay with this dynamic. Some people enjoy being flagellated in public, okay. I think the proposal itself is just an excuse to get attention, and the amount of thought that has gone into it reflects that. e: realtalk though this type of behavior is something a therapist would be really good to pull into the loop on. e2: now you're banning corporations?!? Okay, how?
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Mar 31, 2014 21:59
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I am really amused between the confluence of "social networks will shape how all future society operates" and "hey what the gently caress man, just because i posted all my personal information it isn't cool for you to exploit that" also, grad students are literally indentured servants and if you're surprised to meet one who's an idiot, then you clearly never spent much time living in a college town.
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Apr 2, 2014 02:13
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quote:I'm attracted to these architectonic projects precisely because they have implications for politics and ethics; I think the digital age is a paradigm shift that reorients discussions across the entire epistemological network. this means "I like to imagine that cool poo poo may happen someday." which can be restated as "" since it's immediately followed with the statement, that you don't want to discourage discussion, which is a statement communicating meaning. Seriously, this is what we mean when we say you are using words without getting anything out of them. If you can restate your words in a simpler fashion, you should do it. Yes, even if it reveals the paragraph you just wrote literally doesn't say anything and you should delete it. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 20:48
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meatadata got a chuckle out of me, I'm going to give you full credit.
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Apr 3, 2014 08:01
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I was going to say that you could have various algorithms and have different actors try them in some kind of genetic-style situation, but I have no idea how you would measure fitness under the Strangecoin version, so what should you aim for?
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Apr 3, 2014 23:45
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Yeah, it's basically a Cory Doctorow novel.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:46
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Good point! You don't have to know how many SC it takes to buy your toothpaste because you could just run a bunch of different actors through a bunch of simulations and find out what results. It kind of makes obvious the fact that the actors themselves have no way of knowing if they are making good decisions or not, but people used to load up old mainframes with viruses and let them cockfight it out Game of Life style back in the day, and that was at least fun. (i think it was pretty common for the ones that just copied themselves everywhere at random, forever, beat the ones that painstakingly tried to optimize their returns, which is like the "steal a bunch of identities and cabal them" strategy mentioned earlier.)
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Apr 3, 2014 23:49
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My gut tells me that yes, it is a failing due to ignorance rather than malice. This is backed up by the anecdotal evidence that the thing inside my chest that makes me go "this is too sad to watch and i am embarrassed for this person" twigged so hard i couldn't get through more than a minute of video without my mouse hand spasming to close the window. I tried a couple of times, too. In text, this stuff is pretty funny, but to see video of someone humanizes them, and then it's not as funny any more.
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Apr 4, 2014 22:33
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I would say it's consistent to the extent that he is tropic towards sources of attention, but that's just the human condition.
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Apr 4, 2014 22:51
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fetishizing a short piece of code which is essentially an attempt to translate your idea from english into another language as it is to "computerizing it" is 100% on course with the criticisms people have laid. Just because you put something into a goddamn computer doesn't make it any more valuable, especially if the idea is admittedly unbaked -- that's got to be literal technofetishism. i mean, do you understand that what he is doing is not so much uploading your idea into the future Singularity as trying to draw schematics for the HomerCar. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 20:04
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Wow, I just read someone say "If you were only as expert on this field as I am, you would understand why it is okay to cherry-pick parts of the paper and build a frankensteinian argument the author didn't make." I don't have to be anything more than a college undergraduate to understand that if my argument is supported by three sentences in the conclusion but explicitly contradicted in the fourth, it's not okay to just cite the part that agrees with me.
Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 20:04
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RealityApologist posted:I don't think this makes you a liar, I just think the article's point might be confusing to nonexperts and you're making an incorrect interpretation. By correcting your interpretation, I'm not saying that you are stupid or that your mistake wasn't honest and well-meaning. This is just difficult stuff to communicate, especially in discourse with a hostile audience. we can all read the article. you know what? forget it. i don't think you understand what you're doing and I feel bad for you. You're not going to take criticism. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 20:26
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Dusseldorf posted:RealityApologist, I don't know how it works in Philosophy but do you have a research advisor? He's said that he's not currently enrolled but will be back in the summer to defend his thesis.
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Apr 7, 2014 21:13
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This is exactly like conflating 'commons' in it's meanings of shared grazing lands and Wikipedia. attention as a word has so many meanings that he's criticizing you for his own vague word choice.
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Apr 7, 2014 21:23
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Slanderer posted:You can't just blindly claim that your desired end-state is the inevitable outcome of the first dumb thing you thought up (without even bothering to explicitly define it!) because holy poo poo that stuff is hard! Why be surprised that he's starting from the end and trying to work to a pre-selected result? He did say he identified with alchemists, and that's how they worked afaik.
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Apr 7, 2014 22:05
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RealityApologist posted:I don't think complexity simpliciter is a barrier towards something being intuitive. Sometimes complexity represents a barrier to understanding, but we also find lots of things very intuitive that are very complex, because our brains have evolved to be very sensitive to those complex conditions. Distinguishing human cases is one of those things that is incredibly complex and subtle and yet perfectly intuitive and natural for us to do. Our brains are solving equations in high dimensional geometry like its butter, because the problem fits the tool. this is magical thinking. you're saying that because people can read a general's ribbons (which are a one-to-one correlation, by the way, it's just translating from image to phrase such as "Purple Heart"), it follows that they are able to unravel arbitrarily complex systems because that's just how we are wired? This is a terrible argument. And do you understand that when people are able to solve complex mathematical problems "like butter", that they have exerted a great deal of effort to gain these skills? How can you say it is intuitive and natural when it takes years of training? As an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_color_theorem quote:In mathematics, the four color theorem, or the four color map theorem, states that, given any separation of a plane into contiguous regions, producing a figure called a map, no more than four colors are required to color the regions of the map so that no two adjacent regions have the same color. Two regions are called adjacent if they share a common boundary that is not a corner, where corners are the points shared by three or more regions ... People would look at the problem and go, "yeah, my gut tells me that works," but they had to go through thousands of computer-based simulations and a couple hundred of pages of data on microfiche by hand. For a premise that can be stated in a few sentences. Do you see how much more complex your theory would be, were you able to articulate it in a rigorous fashion? There are simple looking problems that humans literally cannot solve before they die of old age, and you are talking about things much more complex than that. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 22:27
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get down off that cross, Eripsa. People have offered concrete criticisms left and right, and you've pretended they are ad homs. Go back to Hacker News if you want people to skim your proposals and fellate you based on their syllable count, we are going to read them and try to see if you have an actual argument. You have gotten more intellectual attention and rigor in this thread then you did throughout your education, because guess what, if you sign a loan for a couple hundred thousand bucks, there is a strong motivation to just pass you through the system.
Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 23:15
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Hey BernieLomax, if you want to talk about how people should treat you, that might be a separate thread. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 23:54
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That's legitimately good advice relating to his concerns, he's not making fun. BL's posts indicate that this situation is causing him stress, and not reading the thread would probably reduce that. as far as i can tell his only stake in it is that somebody namedropped him, but that was literally just mentioning his name twice over the course of hundreds of posts by dozens of people.
Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 00:08
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When people as early as the first page were "Have you ever had a job and paid for things with your own money" I thought that was pretty harsh, but I really think that it's not just a lack of understanding theoretical economics, but even personal economics. It's not rude to say to people "you should go outside once in a while", especially if it seems like they almost never refer to the world that actually exists in the discussion but rather one that can be imagined (as long as you don't try to go into much detail).
Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 00:19
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people typically know where there family is going to spend family vacations, because they loving tell each other. How is that a useful example of a prediction? Why would you create a falsifiable hypothesis and test it when you could just pick up the phone?
Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 01:00
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The study was "do you think this shirt or the other shirt smell better". i can't even conceive how one could argue that this means we are able to make intuitive judgements about complex systems that are somehow correct. What would be correct in the shirt-sniffing situation? The researchers theorize three or four possibilities, rule a few out (mostly), and think that it's possibly others. Nowhere do they say "wow people can pick out a suitable mate by smell, that's amazing", possibly because the idea of a suitable mate is transparently more complex than that.
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Apr 8, 2014 04:25
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I fully agree that this is an educational thread for many of us. And that last bolus of text makes it quite clear that eripsa is much less concerned with being correct than he is in being perceived as correct. That's no way to live your life and it makes me feel a bit sad.
Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 03:04
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I do think that if Eripsa took on a project of writing a short story of what it might be like under StrangeCoin, and engaged other people who write science fiction, that the feedback he would get, while still maybe being a little stronger than he might like (particularly about parsimony, holy poo poo), but I think that he might be able to process it better because maybe he wouldn't perceive it as particularly the same type of personal attack. I don't know, because I've never encounted anyone else like Eripsa.
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Apr 9, 2014 06:57
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Wanamingo posted:Somebody earlier in the thread, I forget who, said that you used to be completely different a few years back, before all the OWS stuff. If they were right, then that's really sort of worrying. Years ago, hell, you can see the mood swings throughout the thread (sometimes on the same page)
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Apr 9, 2014 16:48
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And look, people saying "maybe talk to a therapist", they're not trolling you. There is nothing wrong with anyone in the world talking to a counselor or therapist. It's not an admission of a problem in any way. I am not making fun of you or being sarcastic here, I really mean this. You know who people really hate? People who hurt and hate other people. You're not somebody that people hate, and again, academia is way loving more brutal than we are in terms of conflating attack the idea with attack the person. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 23:13
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Well, except for early on when he said that one person = one node. That was obviously unenforceable, though, so down the hatch. I don't think he experiences awareness of being inconsistent, so obviously there's no issue. e: and when he said corporations would be abolished a couple pages ago. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Apr 10, 2014 |
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Apr 10, 2014 23:00
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Don't be silly, there will be no meth-heads! he'll be a wirehead.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:02
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Muscle Tracer posted:So what I'm getting out of this is that shell corporations and money laundering schemes will be employed to completely negate any tracking functions whatsoever. My primarily expenses are to Bob's Hardcore Porn and Highway Infrastructure. I promise I only support them for the road access. eXXon posted:Is there a crank factory somewhere churning out people like you and RA? Christ.
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Apr 11, 2014 16:23
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emfive posted:I'm kind-of bored so here's a random suggestion for RA. I don't pretend to understand much of this, but I keep noticing a bothersome tendency in your mechanical descriptions of the Strangecoin system. That tendency is to pin down system parameters to fixed types, like percentages or colors. When you do that before you've worked out the nature of all these network relationships, and the sorts of transactions (in the system architecture sense, not the economic sense) that will have to happen for things to work, you're severely limiting yourself. Before you know exactly what sorts of information needs to be retained for a "coupling" relationship, for example, it's backwards to decide up front that "coupling" involves a commitment expressed as a percentage. Maybe it should be two percentages, or thirty, or something totally different. This idea of "color blending" is similar. A color is basically a tuple of some sort, but it's also a particular kind of tuple with its own semantics. Why decide that it's an appropriate way of conveying some information before you really know what that information means and how it operates in the system? RA, I checked and this poster didn't make fun of you, so you can actually listen to him. The idea of laundering transactions is similar, however -- if somebody who insulted you has an idea, they could have somebody else who you haven't filtered out yet post the idea for them. So absent The Computer to verify, you should probably ignore all advice, just in case a troll had any contact with it (assuming you're still using your heuristic of "people who are mean prima facie have no good ideas.")
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Apr 12, 2014 00:12
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emfive posted:I am not a SedanChair sock puppet or anything like that. that's exactly what the real SedanChair would say! j'accuse! I'm going to need to see your last thousand posts, sorry.
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Apr 12, 2014 01:13
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I'm not a psychologist, but based on the ebbs and flows of the thread I'd predict his next manic phase to hit Tuesday or Wednesday, so it's okay, he should be back to his old self soon.
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Apr 14, 2014 08:31
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i figured it was just taking him a while to cycle around to the manic phase but gently caress i was not disappointed.
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Apr 28, 2014 22:55
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Mr. Stingly posted:Hahaha, FIFTY. EIGHT. PAGES. A master troll at work. Otherwise he's a walking stereotype and every time that's been a thing the guy was revealed to be playing a character for his own entertainment. But I think Toblerone had more respect for his audience. go back and find the Google Hangouts video if you want to be convinced that he's earnest. Not that I'd recommend watching it.
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Apr 28, 2014 23:35
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If you go back twenty pages, you'll see where people asked him these questions. And you can go back twenty more pages, and see where they were asked before that. And you can go three threads back, etc. etc. I'm not complaining, though; everyone needs to experience Eripsa in their own way.
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Apr 29, 2014 19:40
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CheesyDog posted:You must have missed the part where he had a Hacker News thread - it's already a success! It was a pretty successful thread -- it got attention because he used the word *Coin, so people assumed it was a cryptocurrency thing. Because nobody knew his history there, they phrased their responses of "I'd like the singularity to happen too, but this proposal seems incomplete and unworkable" so politely that he could pretend that it was just praise. And as far as this thread -- at, not with. Forums Barber fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 20:06
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LGD posted:It came up a few times in passing. I think it was glossed over both because there isn't really a good reason for most people to know what Whuffies are, and because any perceived lack of originality is among the very least of Strangecoin's problems. Yeah, within the first few pages people were making references to Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, but it's cool, nobody is going to judge people for not having read enough Cory Doctorow.
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May 1, 2014 22:07
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Little Blackfly posted:If he wanted a reputation economy, why bother with the "coin" aspect of strangecoin at all? he already did the attention marble thing, but adding "coin" to the name got him a successful thread on Hacker News, man!!! (because that site has people who will upvote any cryptocurrency thread including the ones not actually about cryptocurrency.)
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May 1, 2014 23:20
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I kind of feel bad when people ask Eripsa to be consistent with things he said a week ago because if you read the whole thread you can see thats a patent impossibility.
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May 2, 2014 05:27
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I think eripsa just broke poe's law. also i don't want to read this thread anymore.
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May 3, 2014 20:43
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