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Why the hell would anyone want any of these features in a currency? Why would anyone want to couple their currency to an analysis of the social relationships within the world of finance? Why would anyone want accounts with balance caps? Why would you want any of these transaction types to even vaguely be possible except for 'payment'? Why do you want a currency with infinite currency-producing loops (and infinite currency-destroying loops) in a world where geography and scarcity exist? EDIT: RealityApologist posted:Did you bother considering any possible solutions to the problem? Use dollars instead of a currency where the amount of currency in circulation can fluctuate by multiple orders of magnitude on a day-to-day basis? Ratoslov fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 10:41
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RealityApologist posted:Nothing about the amount of currency in circulation changes in the proposal I've given. Hm. You're right. Unfortunately, you can see how I am confused, because when someone brought up the idea before, you didn't actually outright it didn't happen.
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Mar 31, 2014 11:24
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eviltastic posted:How does the system handle this without assuming a value for refraining from taking the action in question? Principle of Charity, not my problem homeboy! 
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Apr 1, 2014 07:46
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RealityApologist posted:The only thing worth correcting here is the "true nature" thing. I'm not saying that these relationships are somehow more real than models of relationships, but only that they are different, and that having access to different economic signals in a transaction will generate different economic behavior. Okay. So why do I care?
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Apr 2, 2014 05:29
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evilweasel posted:Yes, people expect you to have the faintest idea about what you're talking about 150 pages into the subject when you've repeatedly insulted the intelligence of everyone criticizing your idea who have proven you wrong innumerable times. Especially when you've compared yourself to loving Marx.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:12
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So any guesses what his next project's going to be? Since he's already done politics, sociology, economics, and network theory, I'm thinking the next obvious step is either a re-working of psychology from base principles, or a complete recodification of mathematics.
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Apr 10, 2014 11:44
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ProfessorProf posted:In case it wasn't clear, for the record, I actually do want to hear RealityApologist's response on this point. I don't have any sense of what a mundane day-to-day transaction looks like from the actor's perspective in this economy/thought experiment/whatever Strangecoin is, but I'd like to. Seriously, I believe the last time someone asked this question, the answer was that since simple transfers of Strangecoins weren't terribly valuable, instead what you would do is couple your accounts for some period of time. No, I don't know why you would want to do that.
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Apr 10, 2014 19:19
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Obdicut posted:Also, who would you couple with? The person at the point of sale? Everyone along the entire supply chain? No one knows, probably not even Eripsa until he spontaneously makes something up, which to him is a voyage of intellectual discovery. You might think 'Well, obviously, you couple your account with the restaurant!' But corporations don't exist in Strangecoin-land. The restaurant doesn't exist as a separate legal entity.
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Apr 10, 2014 19:48
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eXXon posted:I'm glad you worked out for yourself that this is complex. Yeah, you really should start smaller. I'm also glad that you're actually listening to lectures or something, but you oughta add some undergraduate econ stuff to your plate.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:10
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Muscle Tracer posted:No, your primary, secondary and tertiary expenses are to Little Rick's Finance Emporium, the service that sprung up to pay all other services for a mere 1% support fee, and is connected to everything from Bob's Hardcore Porn and Highway Infrastructure to the Red Cross. They've got twelve billion corporate and personal couplings, so good luck drawing any information whatsoever out of that morass. What you should be getting from comments like this, Eripsa, is that whatever financial system you implement will be gamed. It will be gamed as hard as possible by very smart people who devote their entire lives to gaming the system because even the most minor exploits offer ridiculous rewards. The more complex the system is, the more gameable it is- and a financial system is necessarily one of the most complex systems there are, because it has to deal with every possible kind of financial transaction. Now, our current financial system has most of it's complexity at a relatively high level, where it's amendable by legislatures and bureaucracies and such, but you're trying to put all of your complexity down at the lowest level possible, where if there's a exploit nobody can fix it except by abandoning the entire Strangecoin system and adopting something else. Strangecoin isn't a currency. It's a replacement for the idea of currency, the idea of simple symbolic exchange of value. You're taking that incredibly simple, elegant idea that commerce has been based on ever since we got the idea of symbols, and replacing it with a ridiculously complex system that requires AI to run and postgraduate math to balance your checkbook, and if something goes wrong nobody can fix it.
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Apr 11, 2014 18:58
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Muscle Tracer posted:Now, when you buy a hotdog for 1.35, the sausagemeister's account is immediately brought to the balance cap, with a thousand percent extra cycling straight back into TUA. She's now literally unable to make more money that day, so she closes up shop after vending one steaming dog and goes home to play Skyrim and eat her extra hotdogs. Society collapses into ruinous shambles. 
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Apr 11, 2014 19:38
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Little Blackfly posted:It's not a question of legitimate earnings or fairness, it's a question of people using their understanding of the system that exists to acquire as much for themselves as possible, with negative results for society as a whole. Exactly. And the more complex of a system you make, the greater the chance that there's some unintended rules combination you can use to make yourself rich at the cost of wrecking the entire system.
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Apr 12, 2014 22:59
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RealityApologist posted:Lol at the anger in this thread over my use of an example to explain a concept. First off, it's not anger, it's exasperation. Second off, it's not because you're using an example, but because your example betrays your ignorance. If we're going to use a video game example, I believe that a better one would be the Bugmeat problem in Kingdom of Loathing, a low-fi browser-based MMO. In Kingdom of Loathing, the currency of the game is 'meat', and someone found a very simple bug to create billions of units of meat from essentially nothing. This caused massive hyperinflation, where objects that were intended to merely cost thousands of meat in the player marketplace ended up costing millions, pricing essential items out of the reach of new players. Note that the players exploiting this bug aren't 'cheating'- they're using the system as it is, rather than hacking accounts or anything. They're simply using their superior skill at the game to create a competitive advantage over the masses. But it made the game nearly unplayable. Jick, the owner of KoL, patched the bug as quickly as possible and intsituted several large money-sinks in order to slowly drain the economy of the massive piles of cash that caused the hyperinflation. Was he wrong to do so?
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Apr 13, 2014 13:28
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quote:Strangecoin provides a way of coordinating a social division of labor on the basis of these community distinctions and caste structures, while nevertheless guaranteeing universal access to the means for economic engagement and preventing the local accumulation of coin. Why the hell would I want to enforce caste structures on society? 
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Apr 28, 2014 01:47
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Badera posted:I've actually been wondering this the whole time. I can't get my head around it at all. I know it's been a theme here the whole time, but I think this is the first time he's said it so nakedly. What the gently caress, man, caste systems are some of the most odious social ideas in the history of the world, like chattel slavery and eugenics. Why is this a desirable outcome in any way, Eripsa?
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Apr 28, 2014 02:48
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RealityApologist posted:I've talked about this quite explicitly many times in this thread. In particular, I quoted this essay, and elaborated further in this post. I see. That's stupid for three very simple reasons. First, you're using the word 'caste' in an extremely eccentric manner aimed for maximum confusion. When you're endorsing a 'caste system' in the context of human society, people usually think of caste systems in the context of historical human societies, not in the context of bees.. Second, this is a pretty obvious case of the 'is-ought' fallacy. Just because social networks naturally develop certain folks as being leaders doesn't mean that the leaders that naturally develop should lead. Being 'natural' has nothing to do with being correct or making a more ethical, just, or comfortable society. Finally, even buying your 'people who are natural leaders should be leaders' thing, there's also a lot of natural churn in human social networks, but Strangecoin cements power in the hands of the current leaders, therefore artificially causing permanent caste systems (in the standard human sense).
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Apr 28, 2014 03:16
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SedanChair posted:He's not being honest. In the past he said that he wanted inequalities and caste systems to be highlighted by strangecoin, with the goal of removing them. Now he's back to saying that strangecoin is somehow going to fix inequality, that there will be castes but those are just the groups that people have sorted themselves into! It'll be OK. Next he will return to a third position, that "this is all just a thought experiment, it's not intended to be implemented in the real world, you jackals." Whoops. Sorry, I thought this was new material. Oh, well. 
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Apr 28, 2014 03:32
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And also we're back to the question we had back on page one of this thread, 'why does anyone give a poo poo?'
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Apr 29, 2014 07:58
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Strangecoin: Ghost Written by Hideo Kojima. I would normally never say this about Mr. Kojima, but anything he wrote would make way more sense than Strangecoin.
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May 4, 2014 15:54
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PupsOfWar posted:replace all currencies with flax seed still more sane than strangecoin, marbles, or Synereo.
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Mar 19, 2015 13:27
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