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double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I'm having a bit of an issue with plane design. I've got Ferram Airospace & Deadly Reentry enabled, but my first training vehicle has a bad case of veering off to the side and tumbling over. Not every time, but quite often, especially during landing. Any advice what's going on?

Also general tips on how to improve this specific design would be appreciated, landing and turning this thing are a pain. . Small note: the tiny srbs at the cockpit are my emergency ejection system. I'm aware that they're not properly bound to the alert action group yet.

Craft file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7N...Y3YUQtYWs2VWc/

(more) Screens: http://imgur.com/a/frQ2v

I've since removed the control surfaces to the front of the plane, but it still tends to tumble and crash, almost every time. Any advice on how to make ground movement less lethal?


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double nine
Aug 8, 2013

VostokProgram posted:

Is your center of lift behind your center of mass? If it's in front, the plane will be unstable, and want to flip out. If that's not the problem, then take a look at the Ferram data in the hangar. There should be a button that pops up a window with graphs and stuff.

Also, Google Drive says your file doesn't exist.

I'll make a few screens later with this data. Also WTF google. I'll go upload it somewhere else.

edit: dropbox link, hopefully this does work:

https://db.tt/xsqptDNs

edit2: some screenshots. None of this is meaningful to me though (well, apart from Centre of lift/mass/thrust):

http://imgur.com/a/sZ8p7
(centre of thrust is purple, centre of lift is blue & centre of mass is yellow)




edit3: I have to say, I'm starting to get the hang of this craft. It flies pretty good provided I don't do too ambitous turns. Any touchdown is a horrible crash though because the thing just won't land without trying to turn in some direction.

double nine fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 18, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

VostokProgram posted:

On the graphs, Cl is the lift coefficient, Cd is the drag coefficient, Cm is the pitching moment coefficient, and L/D is lift divided by drag. When Cm is positive, the the plane will be unstable and want to pitch up, while if it is negative, the plane will be stable and want to pitch down. The graph is showing you the values of these numbers as your angle of attack goes from 0 degrees to 35 degrees, given a speed of mach 0.2. You can play around with that to see how your plane will do at different speeds.

I don't know too much about the stability derivatives, but I think as long as none of them are red, you should be okay. If the problems with the plane happen when you make turns that are too ambitious, try reducing the ControlMax on each of the control surfaces. If you're using a keyboard then anytime you press a key the relevant flap is going to try to turn as hard as it can.

I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can figure out the landing problem.

I think the problem is related to balance or the landing gear in some capacity. But I can't figure out what. Thanks for looking into this by the way

In somewhat related news: while venting my frustration experimenting after another plane crash, I discovered that one of my mods (probably deadly reentry) allows kerbals to die of excessive G-forces. I also discovered that you can create exessive g-forces by spinning the MK1 cockpit on its own axis like a top. It's wonderful.

double nine fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Apr 19, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

VostokProgram posted:

Now that I've played around with the plane a bit, I agree that it's definitely the landing gears. When you mount landing gears on swept wings they point outwards a bit. You can use shift+WASDQE to do minute rotations on the gears. I've kind of gotten them to line up straight, but at this point I think I'm having unrelated problems with Ferram because the plane never gets enough lift to take off. :v: But it rolls across the runway fine, so at least that's better!

edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot and forgot to put the flaps back on after I removed them. It lands okay now that I've adjusted the gear. How fast are you going horizontally when you try to land?

I've yet to master the skill of bleeding off sufficient velocity to land. I'd say around 160 m/s. I'm aware that it's a lot.

double nine fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 19, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

thehustler posted:

Idea for Eve return:

Build 2 ships, one to return from Eve, one with science instruments on, land next to each other, and then send the Kerbal to the second ship to collect the science.

Thus no ridiculously complex ejecting of science modules (I just can't figure out how to attach the materials bay within the overall design of the ship so it can be ejected).

My Eve return vehicle has 9629 dV vacuum dV, 8357 when I turn atmospheric stats on. Is that going to be enough? What sort of landing altitude do I need to shoot for?

Edit: I can get it over 10,000 actually, and it will still have enough parachutes to land. Probably.

This is from a while ago, but IIRC eve needs around 12-14k dV. It also pays huge dividents to try to land on high-altitude terrain. All of this is subject to change if you had mods like FAR installed.

fakeedit: I don't know how up to date this is but this map has it at 12k dV.



Good luck, godspeed and let us know how it went

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Elukka posted:

I have no experience playing around with Eve but FAR should make it easier if anything. Rocket-shaped things have way excessive drag with the default model. FAR might make flying more challenging but when it comes to atmospheres you'll generally need less delta-v.

Reminds me of the days when I thought Eve had oxigen and I'd just build a spaceplane to land and take off again.

When I tried activating the engines ... :suicide:

:negative:

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

thehustler posted:

gently caress this Eve return poo poo :-(

Hah. Man, I should have warned you more. an Eve return mission is pretty much the end boss of KSP. Atmosphere soup, high gravity, no oxigen, ... It's a complete bastard to get out of. It's pretty much Australia in space.





Guys, we need to turn Venus into a prison colony.

double nine fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 19, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I have a problem with the Interstellar mod.

I tried installing it per the usual instructions (dump everything in the gamedata folder) but the game will crash when loading is finished and it tries to open the main menu.


Deleting the Interstellar files fixes the issue so it's definitely related.


Crash log:

quote:

Unity Player [version: Unity 4.3.3f1_c8ca9b6b9936]

KSP.exe caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005)
in module KSP.exe at 0023:0102a114.

Error occurred at 2014-04-20_005010.
D:\Kerbal Space Program\KSP.exe, run by [redacted].
76% memory in use.
0 MB physical memory [1887 MB free].
0 MB paging file [0 MB free].
0 MB user address space [430 MB free].
Read from location 00007ffc caused an access violation.


I have 8 gigs of ram, and (without Interstellar) I still have about 2 gigs memory free while in midflight. What's going on?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Ratzap posted:

What Geir said. To fix it, get this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-23-5-Release-3-1-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs%21 mod (the aggressive version). Problem solved but read the documentation - the first restart will take ages and look like it's died, just let it grind.

I'll try it. One question though: it says in big bold letters to delete boulderco before installing, does that mean delete->use plugin->reinstall, or something else? I'm especially confused because lower down the page it says they added documentation for boulderco, so I'm unsure if this has since been resolved?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Spaceman Future! posted:

So, if youre not using ALCOR, go get it. The old version was good, the new version is basically the straight up gold standard of how IVA should be and basically makes this a new game.





about 3/4 of those panels are actual working switches. Everything from fuel reserves and meters to internal lighting, node control and all sorts of functional fidly bits, there's even switches for the external cameras where they will auto track your target. It is incredible, even the props are great. All sorts of landing manuals and clutter, it even puts the pilot names on the back of their seats.

those look cool as hell. Question though: I've been using MFD and been really pleased with it, but one of its shortcomings is that it doesn't show the projected periapsis of an intercept body - for instance, if I'm orbiting Kerbin and want to go to the Mun, I can't find a display that tells me what my current Mun periapsis will be. Obviously I use manoevre nodes to do the heavy lifting, but for finetuning the periapsis I'd love an internal screen. It's one of the few things I need to use the map for. Does this offer that kind of functionality?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

How do I mod out Jeb, Bill & Bob? I'm tired of seeing their boring, smug annoying faces on every flight.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Clark Nova posted:

Just stick 'em in a three man capsule and send them on a solar escape trajectory. Never end the flight.

Can't. Life support mod implemented. They'll just die and (eventually) respawn like very annoying zombies every time.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Overwined posted:

Fly them to some remote part of Kerbin and put them all on EVA. Call it a camping trip.

Don't they consume food & water then?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Collateral Damage posted:

Edit your persistent save file with a text editor, search for MissingCrewsRespawn and change it to False.

And then send them on a parabolic kamikaze test flight, presumably?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I've run into one bizarre and one relatively serious bug. The serious bug is that, if I switch craft too many times (2, 3 times but with irregular intervals) when switching craft the game will "load" centered on the central star, but with Kerbin's model loaded. The game universe still seems to run (planets and satellites still move along their orbits) but I'm unable to interact with anything (incapable of switching). Going to the space centre works but the exit button there doesn't function. I wish I could say what causes it for a proper reproducible report.


The second is that this satellite is flying higher than both its periapsis and apoapsis. What the hell??!

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

The Meat Dimension posted:

I'm reading this as:
Periapsis: 1,485,289 m
Current Altitude: 1,486,349 m
Apoapsis: 1,585,541 m

Which seems to make sense. Or am I missing something?...

Oh son of a dick. Don't play ksp when you're too fatigued, i guess.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Spookydonut posted:

That causes my rockets to do flips at about 3km.

Don't all FAR rockets do that?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Maxmaps posted:

We have to actually come up with some lore at some point. Making the descriptions for all the companies and assigning them personalities for the contract system is as far as we have gone.

I trust that they all have suitably acme-levels of insanity?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Maxmaps,

will you rework the vab menus at some point? Right now it's bearable with just stock parts, but it quickly becomes annoying if one has B9 or other part mods installed, with lots of scrolling between pages and parts barely if at all sorted in an understandable fashion.


I really think that the vab parts section needs either give the user the ability to change the order of parts by clicking & dragging, or submenus, for instance

propulsion -> 0.625 engines -> list of all tiny engines.
propulsion -> 1.25 fuel tanks -> list of all fuel tanks of that size.

This might also improve performance a bit, since the game would only need to load all objects from that subcategory rather than everything in the science menu?



My programming experience is limited to "hello world" level of complexity, so I have no idea how difficult this would be, but IMO it would make the VAB more transparant to use. Regardless it's not a pressing matter but I do think it would make the vab more easy to use.

double nine fucked around with this message at 15:00 on May 8, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Maxmaps posted:

We will. Whole craft building UI is up for a big upgrade.

I assume not this update? Speaking of, is there a post detailing the goals for .24 (usual disclaimer of changing priorities/unexpected difficulties/opportunities goes here)?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Gau posted:

I would totally play a mod that had life support, so long as it was a single resource. TAC is just too much for me.

I use TAC, but the only parts I use are the generic "life support" containers, which contain all the resources TAC adds. No need to fuss around with separate food/water/oxigen containers when 1 generic "life support" will do.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013


I assume that L1 is a lagrange point?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Maxmaps posted:

Putting aside the actual evidence of what KSP was originally going for (Which can be easily seen here, where the very first public appearance of KSP happened, title and screenshots updated last year due to broken links) and the fact the only actual departure from the original design doc that has happened so far has been deciding that Kerbals aren't genderless.

I missed this. Maxmaps, will the design doc ever be made publicly available? I'm a sucker for that sort of documentation...

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Synnr posted:

Heres a dumb question: I still can't figure out why my flags aren't showing up,[snip]

You sure you didn't disable them? In map mode, move cursor to the top edge of the screen, in the centre. you'll see various icons you can toggle, one of which is the flags.


about .24, how will budgets deal with object deletion if they get too far away from the active ship and they enter high atmosphere? Because I know that my SRBs survive even with deadly re-entry but I can't really switch to the debris when I still have a circularisation manoevre to do...

double nine fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 13, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

while I agree as to the reasoning, I do wonder if the engine is capable of dealing with such great distances. I mean, right now an intercept with eeloo on maximum timewarp can take 2-4 minutes. The distance equivalent from adding the kerbin equivalent to proxima centauri would mean at least 15 minutes max speed while I go do something else, no?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Malcolm posted:

Any recommendations for how I can attach landing struts to this thing? I have had decent success with this 1950s style VTOL navy rocket, but when I swapped out the (much shorter) liquid fuel engine with the taller nuclear engine, my struts were no longer long enough to reach the ground. I tried attaching them lower and they always explode off with the last separation state, I think they are attaching to the de-coupler instead of the engine proper.



If there were extra long landing struts I'd use them, but the 3 types I see in game are all about the same length.

Change the fuel tank above the nerva to a small fuel one - 45 or 90 liquidfuel. Add 3/4 radial fuel tanks (180 liquidfuel is a good one) to this fuel tank and attach fuel lines to pump fuel to the central tank. Add landing legs to the radial tanks.


code:

legend:
= fuel tank
X nuclear rocket
| landing legs
/


side view

 ===
 =X=
|=X=|
| X |
/ X \


double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Something to avoid "copyright" bitchfights when one mod incorporates ideas that another mod first created - eg if a mod adds resource gathering similar to Kethane but builds on that and/or changes specific mechanics, then the Kethane modder does not have the right and should not try to shut down that other mod.

Basically a modder might have the right to specific code (and maybe not even that?) it does not have a right to the idea behind that code.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

SocketSeven posted:

Mods cannot be :filez:

No copyright infringement bullshit for rehosting mods.

I don't .... I don't understand that gif? The sentence is clear enough but ... what the hell does "filez" mean?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

OwlFancier posted:

Filez is SA shorthand for software piracy.

So, mods cannot be software pirated, if people rehost your mod it isn't a crime.

Gotcha. Thanks.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

What is currently the most likely bottleneck for slow performance? I have 8 gigs of ram, so it's not that but if I get too many parts on a rocket/assemby it becomes horrible to fly. EG:

I'm assuming graphics card, but it might be the cpu?

edit: The slowdown starts when I get within the 2.5 km range (decoupled), so it's to do with the objects/vessels, not where the camera is pointing towards. But I don't know where the game demands those system resources from?

double nine fucked around with this message at 22:37 on May 19, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Samopsa posted:

Holy poo poo, what is that monstrosity? Do you need to circle the entire solar system twice or something?

Look. There is no kill like overkill. (also I tend to calculate the exact amount of delta-v required and then x 1.5). It's a combined Duna/Ike lander/return mission. Turns out I overshot the amount of fuel required juuuuust a little. Also science modules for low duna orbit, high duna orbit, flying at duna, high duna atmosphere, landed, low & high ike orbit, and ike landing. The science module is just for flavour/roleplay/challenge mode (why yes, that is a deliberately unused/useless part, why do you ask?°

double nine fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 20, 2014

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Please tell me that there be NO effort taken to reduce space debris. I want my Kessler syndrome!

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

On the topic of remotetech, what do you put on your geosynchronous (geostationary?) satellites? how many communication dishes do you place on them? And where do you aim them at?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

is there a way to calculate the amount of delta-v required to circularise an orbit from, say, 80km periapse and 2600km apoapse? By pushing periapse upwards until circularised?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Splode posted:

Yeah manoeuvre nodes do that?

yes, but I'm talking about before launching, so I can build my rocket with minimal # parts.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Maxmaps posted:

In the middle of a small feature implementation rampage here. What small changes would you guys like to see to make the game more enjoyable? (Think in the general realm of things like adding an indicator for a maneuver node that is off the visible navball, etc).

A fix for the apoapsis/periapsis jumping around when your orbit is circular or almost so.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Falken posted:

Lazor lets you change the physics distance all the way to 90km.

What's the impact on system performance?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Sam Hall posted:

Hey if "small features" includes bugfixes, then there's apparently this weird problem where sunlight in IVA scenes casts shadows in completely the wrong direction, and it's distracting as all hell once you've noticed it.

EDIT

Here, this should illustrate what I'm talking about. Sun's dead ahead, but the shadows of the navball and the switches on the dash are being projected downward. Also left and right are reversed but im not at home and can't find a screenshot demonstrating that just now.


Handwave it with internal cockpit lighting. Honestly, it's not big enough a deal.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Galaga Galaxian posted:

Found laying on the side of the road, much like rocket parts.

speaking on the side of the road, has anyone tried using the scatter system to add cities biomes to generate buildings rather than boulders/trees for some variety?

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double nine
Aug 8, 2013

*removed for politeness*


The Meat Dimension posted:

Kerbal Space Program: thrust vectoring into the gas chamber.

Speaking of mods, which mod/texture pack was the one that put a thin atmosphere on Minmus with rad clouds?



I think this one?

double nine fucked around with this message at 16:47 on May 30, 2014

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