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Prism
Dec 22, 2007


Rascyc posted:

That guard seishin getting a nerf was kinda pointless too, I think. It should probably be like 1/2 for it to actually make a dent and flash should probably just go away if they were serious about it. I hope they never do it personally though.


While I agree that Invincible could be nerfed a little more (I would have made it do 1/4 damage, not 1/10, while Guard could end up at 1/2), Flash doesn't need it to match, and for one major reason.

Flash gets used up the first time you get attacked, no questions asked. Invincible hangs around until you get hit, so someone fast with Invincible can hold it up as a buffer for a long time - possibly entire rounds! - while Flash is never going to be good for more than the one shot. I like to use it to eat counterattacks from bosses, but it's just not as good a defensive SC.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


Yeah, if a dodgy pilot gets Invincible then they're drat near, well, invincible. Suzaku went entire stages in Z2.2 without getting his invincible knocked off.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

Prism posted:

while Flash is never going to be good for more than the one shot. I like to use it to eat counterattacks from bosses
Yeah but this right here is pretty much the only reason I'd ever take it out

Concentrate is more than enough for grunts, if even that a lot of the time. If I wanted to be super SP efficient in this game I'd prioritize accuracy upgrades and just always do the assist focused attack on the main unit so the enemy doesn't get the bonus attack percentage on you on their follow-up round, thus I am generally going to be safer to counter attack and not have to use seishin.

Bosses have always been kind of push overs. But I don't know if there's a nice middle ground here because I'm sure all of us remember the days where SRW tried to put in hard bosses and it was not that fun either having bosses spam seishins on themselves or if you go even more old school (like SRW3/SRW4 days) bosses spamming multiple map attacks on you ugh.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007


Rascyc posted:

Yeah but this right here is pretty much the only reason I'd ever take it out

Concentrate is more than enough for grunts, if even that a lot of the time. If I wanted to be super SP efficient in this game I'd prioritize accuracy upgrades and just always do the assist focused attack on the main unit so the enemy doesn't get the bonus attack percentage on you on their follow-up round, thus I am generally going to be safer to counter attack and not have to use seishin.

Bosses have always been kind of push overs. But I don't know if there's a nice middle ground here because I'm sure all of us remember the days where SRW tried to put in hard bosses and it was not that fun either having bosses spam seishins on themselves or if you go even more old school (like SRW3/SRW4 days) bosses spamming multiple map attacks on you ugh.

I just treat Sense as an offensive SC like Strike that I pull out for special occasions only (it helps that there are a fair number of people who have Sense but not either Flash or Strike alone in some games; I haven't gotten far enough in Z3 to know if that's true here).

Bosses could be made harder by giving the automatic SCs (Strike, Flash or Invincible, Valor or Soul) to fewer people and then not balancing around a party that used most or all of them on every boss-hitting action, but then the people who do have them would be pretty noticably overpowered unless you toned down their effectiveness somewhat, especially the damage boosting ones! I don't know if there's a good solution simply because of the mechanics of SRT games.

Eternal Volfogg
Feb 13, 2012

BOMBER!!!!

Yeah I played the Gundam route as a first playthrough. I was worried I was doing something wrong because everyone except my Hibiki seemed to be doing garbage damage all the time. Then i really sat and looked at the numbers and overall makeup of your roster those early stages, and realized that route is just filled with absolute garbage for robots for the beginning portions. ReZels are terrible, the Mk2 is a sniper at best and useless otherwise, Fa and Katz are the most pointless characters ever.

Then I got the Delta Plus and put Amuro in it, and laughed as he immediately became top ace. That suit is glorious.

Now that i've started to get TTGL and some other super's its infinitely easier. The 6th Angel stage was a pain in the balls though. Unicorn has been a piece of space trash thus far. Hoping destroy mode will help a lot...

Eternal Volfogg fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2014 around 20:41

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

A lot of it has to do with size differentials too. The generic UC suits don't have much for innate ignore size so they do pitiful damage against size mismatches. ALL attacks suffer a penalty on top of that too. I asked earlier about the ignore size property on some attacks being a single level or just being a blanket equalizer, cause it sure as heck didn't feel like an equalizer like in previous games. I still honestly don't know, I just don't care enough to muck with it and threw on a level of ignore size anyway just to help with assist attacks (it's 50 PP so whatever, slots don't appear to be at a premium).

Seriously when the TTGL support units join you, they're 2L sized units if I recall correctly. Their assist attacks hit SO HARD on nearly everything despite having like 3k base damage ranges or something generic. The Evas simiarily are 1Ls and hit hard as well.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Rascyc posted:

Seriously when the TTGL support units join you, they're 2L sized units if I recall correctly. Their assist attacks hit SO HARD on nearly everything despite having like 3k base damage ranges or something generic. The Evas simiarily are 1Ls and hit hard as well.

The TTGL units are crazy loving good for almost the entire game because of their size. Space King Kittan was capable of keeping up damage-wise with Mazinger Z God Scrander.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007


ImpAtom posted:

The TTGL units are crazy loving good for almost the entire game because of their size. Space King Kittan was capable of keeping up damage-wise with Mazinger Z God Scrander.

Doesn't being so big give them a hit penalty? Or are most of the enemies large enough/slow enough that it doesn't matter and the damage scaling is more important?

Eternal Volfogg
Feb 13, 2012

BOMBER!!!!

ImpAtom posted:

The TTGL units are crazy loving good for almost the entire game because of their size. Space King Kittan was capable of keeping up damage-wise with Mazinger Z God Scrander.

Gimy and Dary do more damage than many of my main character pilots, i left them as a squad and they just wreck poo poo.

Eternal Volfogg fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2014 around 20:59

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


Prism posted:

Doesn't being so big give them a hit penalty? Or are most of the enemies large enough/slow enough that it doesn't matter and the damage scaling is more important?
Most of them have Strike.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

Or just upgrade their accuracy and that's fine too. Or pair them with pilots with twin-concentrate or whatever. If you front-seat them the 20% bonus accuracy from joint attacks is also there if you need it. Leadership bonuses are also handy as usual.

I've always preferred large sized units to small sized units personally for damage purposes.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Prism posted:

Doesn't being so big give them a hit penalty? Or are most of the enemies large enough/slow enough that it doesn't matter and the damage scaling is more important?

You can upgrade accuracy or just use Attune/Lock-On/whatever to let them hit small things.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Eternal Volfogg posted:

Yeah I played the Gundam route as a first playthrough. I was worried I was doing something wrong because everyone except my Hibiki seemed to be doing garbage damage all the time. Then i really sat and looked at the numbers and overall makeup of your roster those early stages, and realized that route is just filled with absolute garbage for robots for the beginning portions. ReZels are terrible, the Mk2 is a sniper at best and useless otherwise, Fa and Katz are the most pointless characters ever.

Then I got the Delta Plus and put Amuro in it, and laughed as he immediately became top ace. That suit is glorious.

Now that i've started to get TTGL and some other super's its infinitely easier. The 6th Angel stage was a pain in the balls though. Unicorn has been a piece of space trash thus far. Hoping destroy mode will help a lot...

Don't talk poo poo about Fa, this is probably her best appearance in ages. She learns accelerate and the Methuss gains EN Resupply as its half-upgrade bonus, making her a top loving notch wingman for a big nasty super robot who doesn't need a super strong assist attack.

As for Unicorn, NT-D mode pretty much forgives all sins, yes.

e: I've done no upgrading except half stat upgrades for custom bonuses and no weapon upgrades and I'm finding the game really well balanced this way. There have been a couple tedious stages but nothing soul-crushing to do, and the enemies still put up a pretty decent fight.

Kanos fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2014 around 22:04

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Only four left for big boy here, so he's all but useless.



drat, I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive. Curse you, Canada Post!

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Considering the horror stories I heard I'm glad I went for digital.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Now that digital is a thing I'll never buy a boxed import game again because of all the times I've either paid $25 for fast shipping and had it arrive a week later or went with cheap shipping and had it arrive two and a half weeks later.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


or the times I've ordered something and had nothing arrive.

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008

On the moon... they don't make Neo Kobe Pizza.

Every time I've ever paid for Fedex from Play-Asia I've gotten my game in less than 24 hours. I got my copy of Miku 2nd in like 14 hours after it shipped out from Hong Kong.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Anybody who reads Japanese and has made it far enough want to tell me what the deal with Gunbuster is in this game? Noriko and it just seemed to popup out of nowhere mid-stage.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

「俺達の新力だ
真ゲッターロボ!」

ImpAtom posted:

Considering the horror stories I heard I'm glad I went for digital.

I ordered a PS3 copy on friday morning from nippon-yasan and got it yesterday. That was wasted money of course because PS3 has no advantages over the Vita version whatsoever. I guess I have something to put on the shelf now. Still digital is the way to go.

KoB
Apr 30, 2009


Policenaut posted:

Every time I've ever paid for Fedex from Play-Asia I've gotten my game in less than 24 hours. I got my copy of Miku 2nd in like 14 hours after it shipped out from Hong Kong.

Yeah, got mine Thursday morning after release. Still dont feel like dealing with a Japanese PSN account, but Ill probably figure it out for Dark Prison.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Ethiser posted:

Anybody who reads Japanese and has made it far enough want to tell me what the deal with Gunbuster is in this game? Noriko and it just seemed to popup out of nowhere mid-stage.

Gunbuster is post-series. Noriko says she is from 12,000 years in the past and she herself is not entirely clear what happened after the Black Hole Bomb went off.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


ImpAtom posted:

Gunbuster is post-series. Noriko says she is from 12,000 years in the past and she herself is not entirely clear what happened after the Black Hole Bomb went off.
I read something about them dropping hints about Diebuster being in the next game: can you confirm/deny? Is it just a wink wink/nudge nudge reference to it or does it seem like it has an actual chance of happening? I want to set everyone's music to Groovin' Magic.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



ImpAtom posted:

Gunbuster is post-series. Noriko says she is from 12,000 years in the past and she herself is not entirely clear what happened after the Black Hole Bomb went off.

Awesome, thanks for the help.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Endorph posted:

I read something about them dropping hints about Diebuster being in the next game: can you confirm/deny? Is it just a wink wink/nudge nudge reference to it or does it seem like it has an actual chance of happening? I want to set everyone's music to Groovin' Magic.

There are no 100% direct references to Diebuster but Gunbuster's 'plot' isn't resolved this game and the place where it is really really invites Diebuster to be a very easy inclusion.

There didn't flat-out say Diebuster will be in part 2 but Diebuster has a really really good chance of being in Part 2. Better than any other series I can think of.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


groovin' magic!

Thanks for that, ImpAtom. You are the Best Poster.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


If I get Diebuster and ZZ, I'll be a very happy man, I can't actually think of many series I think were "missing" from the Z-Series.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



Onmi posted:

If I get Diebuster and ZZ, I'll be a very happy man, I can't actually think of many series I think were "missing" from the Z-Series.

Besides everyone that was removed in Z2 or Z3, you mean.

...I just want good Renton and Garrod back.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Unfortunately if we get Renton back there is a 90% chance it will be Eureka 7 AO Renton.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


G Gundam, Nadesico, and Tekkaman Blade are the ones that come to mind for me.

vibratingsheep
Nov 2, 2013

Fudou, Gunzou. The Face of the Franchise Killer. 2004.


Onmi posted:

If I get Diebuster and ZZ, I'll be a very happy man, I can't actually think of many series I think were "missing" from the Z-Series.

The continued lack of the Yuusha series hurts some of my friends right in the soul, they keep looking at Alpha 3 longingly and sighing.

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011




I really want Nadesico to come back and this would be the best time to introduce the series, right when the Z series is ending so we don't have to deal with Prince of Darkness or anything like that. Other than that, I guess Zeorymer, just so we can get all the hilariously broken super robots in one game.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


ImpAtom posted:

Unfortunately if we get Renton back there is a 90% chance it will be Eureka 7 AO Renton.

I don't think my heart could take that...I just want the Spec 3 back...

vibratingsheep posted:

The continued lack of the Yuusha series hurts some of my friends right in the soul, they keep looking at Alpha 3 longingly and sighing.

It hurts me, too. I need my GA,GA,GA,GA,GA,GA,GAO-GAI-GAR back!

vibratingsheep
Nov 2, 2013

Fudou, Gunzou. The Face of the Franchise Killer. 2004.


Brunom1 posted:

It hurts me, too. I need my GA,GA,GA,GA,GA,GA,GAO-GAI-GAR back!

You could always replace Gunleon's music with that, they're basically the same robot (I keed, I keed!)

I want Da-Garn purely so I can get me some Hallelujah Papaya groove on.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Love does not end.


TARDISman posted:

I really want Nadesico to come back and this would be the best time to introduce the series, right when the Z series is ending so we don't have to deal with Prince of Darkness or anything like that. Other than that, I guess Zeorymer, just so we can get all the hilariously broken super robots in one game.
Honestly, I thought W made Prince of Darkness pretty okay.

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008

On the moon... they don't make Neo Kobe Pizza.

Can you hear it? Surely, you can hear it!? That far off ROAAAAAAAAAAR!!!

Where's my Great GM God, Banpresto?

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

The W Original is pretty much my upcoming SRW dream, in the realm of the OGverse. That thing was something else.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

I want W in OG just so we can have a new battleship already.

Tobias Grant
May 16, 2009

Lucky for you, I'm a dog lover.


Gun X Sword. Please Banpresto, just let it be in Z3.2 so that it can finally be in a good SRW game.

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KoB
Apr 30, 2009


Rascyc posted:

The W Original is pretty much my upcoming SRW dream, in the realm of the OGverse. That thing was something else.

I cant wait

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