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Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005



Hokuto posted:

One last impression () about Z3-1 while I'm thinking about it.

I miss boss music. Only Gadlight and Iku had any at all, and aside from them, it felt kind of underwhelming just hearing the same hero themes in every boss fight.

This also struck me. 2nd OGs got me used to some rad boss themes to blow poo poo up to, and this game was sorely lacking in that.

That said, it was also nice not to have a repeat case of that awful DAMON music overriding poo poo again.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Oh Snapple! posted:

This also struck me. 2nd OGs got me used to some rad boss themes to blow poo poo up to, and this game was sorely lacking in that.

That said, it was also nice not to have a repeat case of that awful DAMON music overriding poo poo again.
The DAMON music was worth it to eventually hear Untrue Crystal.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


Endorph posted:

The DAMON music was worth it to eventually hear Untrue Crystal.

Uther and Wayne's themes 4 life!

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005



There wasn't much of anything about Insalaum that didn't own. Just a collection of rad themes, robots, and pilots. They're pretty much my favorite original villain group and I want them back.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Oh Snapple! posted:

This also struck me. 2nd OGs got me used to some rad boss themes to blow poo poo up to, and this game was sorely lacking in that.
Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. They've done so great in the past. Even prior games before OGs2 had generic boss themes like The Arrow of Destiny to mix it up a bit.

I also miss all the Insalaum music.

KoB
Apr 30, 2009


Hokuto posted:

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. They've done so great in the past. Even prior games before OGs2 had generic boss themes like The Arrow of Destiny to mix it up a bit.

I also miss all the Insalaum music.

The Arrow of Destiny is still so amazing.

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010


Gyra_Solune posted:

So when I blabbed about making up series lists earlier and someone posited 'well sometimes it's better if you just take random shows and make them work out', and because I am an insane person, I basically went and compiled every single show I see as being SRW-able, alongside some Western stuff, video games, and even that Exo-Force thing Lego did a while back because it was as anime as possible.

Here are all 246 of them. Note that satellite series I tagged onto others - i can't imagine who would want to use Mazinger without Great Mazinger if you don't count K, the pre-Zeta Gundam OVAs would be tagged onto one or the other presumably, Astray and Destiny are all under SEED, pretty much anything Macross that isn't 7 or Frontier would be tagged to the original. Usage of a list randomizer would indeed allow for easily making effectively off the wall cast lists should one look at the first or last 10-20 entries there.

You have Xenosaga but no Xenogears. For shame. Xenogears and Xabungle would go together SO WELL.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Hunter Noventa posted:

You have Xenosaga but no Xenogears. For shame. Xenogears and Xabungle would go together SO WELL.

I'm imagining the endgame plot there. The Zohar shuts down, cutting off the ether power source to all Gears in existence. Suddenly, combustible engine powered mechs go from laughingstock and cannon fodder to king of the hill.

Kitfox88
Aug 20, 2007


Brunom1 posted:

Uther and Wayne's themes 4 life!

Untrue Crystal is still one of my favorite boss themes from a SRW ever.

Gyra_Solune
Apr 24, 2014

Kyun kyun
Kyun kyun
Watashi no kare wa louse


Hokuto posted:

I'm imagining the endgame plot there. The Zohar shuts down, cutting off the ether power source to all Gears in existence. Suddenly, combustible engine powered mechs go from laughingstock and cannon fodder to king of the hill.

Silly me, remembering Xenosaga but not Xenogears.

Actually there's a lot of shows that would fit in with a frontiersy sorta wild west motif. Xabungle and Xenogears of course, alongside Machine Robo and Bismarck (dammit banpresto that is literally an anime with a giant robot cowboy get on it), Gun X Sword, Gurren Lagann, probably something from Zoids, and so forth.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


Kitfox88 posted:

Untrue Crystal is still one of my favorite boss themes from a SRW ever.

Hmm, you got me thinking. What IS my favorite boss theme ever...?

I would say Uther's theme is right up there but I believe CHIMERA beats it by a hair's breadth.

Edit: Wait! Third place is Zest Seven!

Dark Prison and Armageddon are just behind that.

Brunom1 fucked around with this message at May 17, 2014 around 00:12

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005



I'm not even sure what my favorite boss theme is, but I'm pretty sure Clown Master and Devastator are both high up on any list I could make, along with Ten no Kongou.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

If I had to name a favorite, it would probably be Messenger from the Void or Genocide Machine.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Oh Snapple! posted:

This also struck me. 2nd OGs got me used to some rad boss themes to blow poo poo up to, and this game was sorely lacking in that.

That said, it was also nice not to have a repeat case of that awful DAMON music overriding poo poo again.

The DAMON were a mix of annoying, horrifying and legitimately difficult and I liked that the music made any fight with big groups of them feel different than the rest of the game. I was really disappointed the ADAMONs of Z2.2 were basically a joke in comparison, even though I groaned every time the surprise reinforcement DAMONs spawned on me during the previous game.

But Insalaum was so well written in general that I didn't mind it that much.

Light Gun Man
Oct 17, 2009

toEjaM iS oN
vaCatioN


Lipstick Apathy

Gyra_Solune posted:

So when I blabbed about making up series lists earlier and someone posited 'well sometimes it's better if you just take random shows and make them work out', and because I am an insane person, I basically went and compiled every single show I see as being SRW-able, alongside some Western stuff, video games, and even that Exo-Force thing Lego did a while back because it was as anime as possible.

Here are all 246 of them. Note that satellite series I tagged onto others - i can't imagine who would want to use Mazinger without Great Mazinger if you don't count K, the pre-Zeta Gundam OVAs would be tagged onto one or the other presumably, Astray and Destiny are all under SEED, pretty much anything Macross that isn't 7 or Frontier would be tagged to the original. Usage of a list randomizer would indeed allow for easily making effectively off the wall cast lists should one look at the first or last 10-20 entries there.

Note that results will inevitably include lots of tiresome unnoticed 70s super robot shows, cheesy 80s apocalyptic OVAs, fanservice-crazed 90s OVAs, utterly forgettable real robot 2000s shows, and Daimidaler or Dai Shogun all the time because random.org hates me. ^.^

Feel free to prod me about things that ought or ought not to be on this, I haven't watched the vast majority of these and don't intend to, so yeah. And you better share amusing results.

Godzilla / greater Toho kaiju library and Gamera would be fun / retarded additions.

The western Voltron stuff. Voltron 3D and Voltron Force had new (and potentially interesting gameplay wise) units and pilots. They have a comic going on right now that's a Robotech crossover too with some kind of Lion-Veritech hybrid stuff going on I think.

Any kind of Super Sentai mecha, Kamen Rider ground units, etc. Ultraman. I await the day we get a two-scale game with tokusatsu heros doing on foot infiltration missions while SRW crew fights the big stuff outside the enemy base.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Biscuit Hider

Light Gun Man posted:

I await the day we get a two-scale game with tokusatsu heros doing on foot infiltration missions while SRW crew fights the big stuff outside the enemy base.

You know what else that gets you?

Metal Gear.

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011




Midjack posted:

You know what else that gets you?

Metal Gear.

Along with Tiger & Bunny and s-CRY-ed. Gotta have as much punching action as possible.

Light Gun Man
Oct 17, 2009

toEjaM iS oN
vaCatioN


Lipstick Apathy

Would need at least one mission with the Getter pilots beating the poo poo out of people / each other. And you could have the Kurogane Five get in on it.

vibratingsheep
Nov 2, 2013

Fudou, Gunzou. The Face of the Franchise Killer. 2004.


Brunom1 posted:

Hmm, you got me thinking. What IS my favorite boss theme ever...?

I would say Uther's theme is right up there but I believe CHIMERA beats it by a hair's breadth.

Edit: Wait! Third place is Zest Seven!

Dark Prison and Armageddon are just behind that.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the inordinately popular obnoxiousness of WARE KOSO WAAAAAA Baran Doban isn't getting love here. All my friends revere it pretty much just because it's from Alpha 3.

Then again, I really like the Gate of Magus, so who am I to talk?

TARDISman posted:

Along with Tiger & Bunny and s-CRY-ed. Gotta have as much punching action as possible.

Iron Man fits in this category, as long as we're pipe dreaming.

muike
Mar 16, 2011


Karas, Blassreiter

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

In general I find Z3's originals completely underwhelming compared to Z2's. DAMON had absolutely fantastic visual designs, Insalaum was aces, and the enemy leaders had personalities and were fun to watch.

In Z3 we get Analotta who is just boring and Gadlight, and the enemy mech designs are also pretty uninspired.

Shikuu's ride looks kinda cool, and I hope we see more stuff like that. I'm just worried based on his epilogue fight that we're just going to see Geminis recolours for Z3-2 and I hope that's not the case.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

It's worth mentioning that the Sunrise Eiyutan/World War games did on foot battles. It's not entirely unprecedented. And hey, that got us Ronin Warriors in a giant robot game.

Davzz
Jul 31, 2008


I figured people played Super Tokusatsu Taisen 2001 when they were talking about on-foot units + giant dudes.

That's a Banpresto cross-over game made using the SRW engine with the Kamen Riders, Ultramen and of course, Giant Robo... the live action version, that is.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

「俺達の新力だ
真ゲッターロボ!」

Pureauthor posted:

and Gadlight

The problem here is that his entire purpose in the game is to job for Hibiki. I think he fulfils the purpose of being an obnoxious yes pitiable patsy well enough.

Lostconfused fucked around with this message at May 17, 2014 around 16:19

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Gadlight would be okay if he had anything more going for him than effectively being a pretty annoying mook. He's an okay villain but he's basically a less interesting version of Aim and there's nobody to pick up his slack.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

Honestly the idea of a drunken angry bastard with power over reality itself is kinda interesting to me.

Z-blue: give up, Gadlight!
Gadlight: oh, I already have.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at May 17, 2014 around 17:49

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005



ImpAtom posted:

Gadlight would be okay if he had anything more going for him than effectively being a pretty annoying mook. He's an okay villain but he's basically a less interesting version of Aim and there's nobody to pick up his slack.

Speaking as someone who can't read a goddamn word in these games and has to go by sound, portraits, etc. (and then translations and explanations from others after the fact) to get any sense of a character this is pretty spot-on. And what I generally got from Gadlight is that he was just kind of annoying to deal with and that was about it.

To kind of compare him to the Z2 villains:

When Gadlight showed up in a stage my general response was "Oh boy, this rear end in a top hat "

When Aim showed up, my response was "THIS rear end in a top hat "

And for Insalaum, it was "Yessss, these assholes! "

There is just nothing interesting about loving Gadlight at all. Aim is a huge rear end in a top hat and that gets put through constantly even in his in-stage behavior (along with him going steadily more batshit as you pound on him). Asakim is in that same boat. The Arcsabers are different, but I could still get a feeling of what they were about.

Gadlight was just kinda unreadable, annoying trash.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Cash Rules Everything Around Me


Grimey Drawer

Midjack posted:

You know what else that gets you?

Metal Gear.

You know what it really gets you though? The ultimate adaptation of G Gundam.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


And here we go - I believe these are the last of the important Z3 BGMs (not counting the event ones and ones taken from Z2):


Sheryl's song from the Macross F movie...don't quite like this as much as her other songs.


From the Evangelion movie and, this time, you get it as Mari's BGM...after you kill off Asuka. You son of a bitch!

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011




TwoPair posted:

You know what it really gets you though? The ultimate adaptation of G Gundam.

Domon teaches Raiden and Rosemary the Love Love Tenkyoken.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Brunom1 posted:

And here we go - I believe these are the last of the import
From the Evangelion movie and, this time, you get it as Mari's BGM...after you kill off Asuka. You son of a bitch!

She's not dead. She's incapacitated!

Light Gun Man
Oct 17, 2009

toEjaM iS oN
vaCatioN


Lipstick Apathy

Hokuto posted:

It's worth mentioning that the Sunrise Eiyutan/World War games did on foot battles. It's not entirely unprecedented. And hey, that got us Ronin Warriors in a giant robot game.

I did not know how much I wanted that until this moment.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

Mechanical things about SRW that I still have no clue what they were thinking:

- Barriers are calculated against final damage, so if you want to make your AT field more effective at keeping attacks from hitting Eva01's armor, upgrade its armor.

- You can do a support defense and dodge (and the unit your are defending will still not be hit).

Did I miss anything?

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Technically it's support defense + afterimage, but yeah that's my pick for most hilarious SRW mechanic.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Samurai Sanders posted:

Mechanical things about SRW that I still have no clue what they were thinking:

- Barriers are calculated against final damage, so if you want to make your AT field more effective at keeping attacks from hitting Eva01's armor, upgrade its armor.

- You can do a support defense and dodge (and the unit your are defending will still not be hit).

Did I miss anything?

Well, the former makes sense to me. The AT field is an all-or-nothing barrier. The Evas are fairly squishy if something can break it and depend on it for strength. So upgrading armor improves their defensive capabilities on all levels.

The second is just hilarious though.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

ImpAtom posted:

Well, the former makes sense to me. The AT field is an all-or-nothing barrier. The Evas are fairly squishy if something can break it and depend on it for strength. So upgrading armor improves their defensive capabilities on all levels.

The second is just hilarious though.

It doesn't matter if it's an AT field or another barrier, the point is that mechanics-wise, the attack actually hits the armor FIRST, even though it's obviously the opposite.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

If it didn't work like that AT field would be fairly worthless, as would many other barriers too. It's better to have them scale in some capacity, even if the visual effect is a bit quirky.

The dodge thing happens because the game does the calculations before hand to see if any of the attacks in the entire sequence are going to hit. If at least one of them hits, it'll swap over to the support defender. The support defender will only dodge attacks the original target would have dodged, it's not like it's a new dodge check. I suspect this is done purely for performance reasons and to keep the experience seamless.

After image is treated separately, that is indeed a new check afaik. This part I think is a bit of a quirk and I don't think it should work like this imo.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...


On the other hand, Hayato jumping in front of an attack just to smugly dodge it is wonderful.

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -


The only alternative I could think of would be to give the AT Field its own armor stat (which would have to start off somewhat inflated to make it actually useful in the long term, or simply scale with Synchro Rate). I do dig that increasing Eva pilot Defense makes the AT Field more resilient, though.

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Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

Yeah, it makes sense that the pilot's defense stat is calculated first, since I figure that's more about knowing how to position your unit so it takes less damage to its shields or armor or whatever. It's just the fact that armor is calculated before barriers that bugs me.

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