Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«5 »
  • Locked thread
GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



All the good thread titles are comedy ones.

Gas this thread and ban op for not understanding Goontiquette.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



AradoBalanga posted:

Some of the Element Powers, taken from /m/:

Andy / Hole Digger - Gains the "Dig" command (like Getter 2), all weapons gain "Ignore Barrier" trait
Shrade / Spiritual Symphony - His Team and any adjacent ally Teams gets +5 in all stats
Malloy / Vulnerability - All weapons gain "Armor Down" effect
MIX / Dimension Compensation - Activates HP and EN Regen (S)
Sazanka / Corrosion - At the beginning of player phase, all enemies within 5 spaces gets -2 Will


Boys and girls are separated into different Aquarions, right? I want to sit Andy and MIX with Amata and I want to do it now, but I'll probably have to wait until Tengoku hen for that.

Any word on the Element Powers of Mikono and Zessica?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Son Ryo posted:

It can be entertaining if you're already familiar with the work, but 99% of the time I prefer knowing what's actually going on to reading silly gibberish.

It was my first non-OG SRW (before I learned about the magic that is watching ancient shows you didn't know you loved) and I understood the plot and characterization just fine. There are some funky word choices in most sentences but it is not TALL EVIL GOD Z tier.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



The only time the Aquarion B-cast was ever worth using was when Z1 gave you the MP Aquarion for Reika, Pierre and Luna.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



While that's pretty good it is a bit worrying to see it do worse or not much better than Z2. How did OGs2nd do?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011




Okay this made me laugh, these portraits are fantastic.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Hivac posted:

The command aura seems to be a hell of a lot more significant in this game, unless I just can't remember anything before Z2.2.

EWACs and Command Auras were super important in AP. But no, in general you wouldn't notice them unless the game lacked accuracy upgrades and the average late game grunt had ridiculous stats (Hello OG2).

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



You guys weren't kidding about Hibiki's engrish, that stilted katakana reading is fantastic.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Getting Great Zeorymer is pretty terrible for an LP because it involves benching Zeorymer all the time and also missing out on pretty much every other secret, and you're kinda trying to show the game here. After watching its animations once there is not much to Great Zeorymer from an LP standpoint. Go with whatever originals and route splits the thread prefers but keep the 'canon' save file as the one that doesn't get Great Zeorymer. Show it off in a bonus update at the end.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Rascyc posted:

So is Kamille

More interestingly, has there even been a SRW game that had Zeta gundam and not Four? Maybe Z2? I really can't remember.

In D she is dead by the start of the story and is part of the waverider crash animation.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Samurai Sanders posted:

Yeah, I should have said "most" not "every". And yeah, I'm just bitter, because it's so boring and so common. It's the default way to do it if the writers don't have the motivation to think outside of the box. Every time Suzune's other side comes out I hope for a change to that way of things, but so far nothing really.

Things like this usually improve little by little in other franchises but in the case of SRW it feels like it is only getting worse. The Z series is pretty loving weird about its female originals. Suzune is probably the most blatant case and Esther is the biggest disappointment, but let's take a quick look at Z1:

-Setsuko's route is about her being constantly hated by the universe through no fault of her own.
-Two of the three originals in the antagonist faction outright hate women.
-The third is up there with Saphine in terms of cheesecake.
-The closest we've had to a competent female primary antagonist since SRW 64 (IIRC) is the puppet of a guy who uses her to get off on being beaten.
-Mail Beater.

Back then you could have argued that they were getting a feel for writing darker plotlines with neurotic characters, but in the context of Z2 and Z3.2 it is starting to feel deliberate. At this point I'm hoping for a Xine route because even a sexy redhead with a dickgirl robot would be an improvement.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Onmi posted:

It's not deliberate, you're just incredibly sensitive and paranoid.

I don't think it is deliberate, I used the word 'feel' because it is the only way I can accept it. It is much more likely that it is just coincidental, which is a much more depressing thought.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Samurai Sanders posted:

I had never seen Nerv HQ from directly above before; I knew it was a pyramid and then a hole in the ground next to it, but it looks weirder and somehow creepier than I thought.



If Central Dogma is straight down there, what's all this talk about a million plates of armor between it and the surface?

There's three levels to Neo Tokyo III basically: The city, NERV HQ below, and then Central Dogma. Between the city and HQ you have the plates that you see Ramiel digging through. Go down a series of shafts from within HQ and you reach the basement level with all Lilith, the Eva graveyard, and all that good stuff.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Some SRWs feel like they tried to cram a bunch of series that don't have a lot of common ground together, yes. On the other hand, doing that also makes the world feel like a more diverse place, which worked really well in Z1's case.

Then there's route splits. Z2.1's first half made great use of them splitting up the party into the public face of ZEXIS and the gray moral area freedom fighter half of your group. By the endgame they were all tied together pretty well thematically and it felt like a pretty natural development, showing that even radically different shows can build a coherent plot together.

My point is that I think the "throw a bunch of stuff together" approach can yield more satisfying results than a tightly themed cast would because of the larger scope. I do agree with the principle of cherry picking stuff that works well together, but you also have to try and please the fans who would throw a fit when there is no 70's representative in your game, and given what the writers have to work with the result is surprisingly lucid.

edit: Also you can have a lot of series that theoretically fit together like pieces of a puzzle and end up with a story that fails to deliver on expectations altogether. Ideas are nothing without a good execution. I'm looking at you, Compact 3.

GimmickMan fucked around with this message at May 10, 2014 around 21:28

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Alpha Numbers made sense, Round Knights (from R) was cool, Warter was clever. I don't remember what the other games did but it wasn't as weird as ZEUTH or ZEXIS, let alone Z-BLUE. What does that one even mean?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Really they've been pretty good about making battleships capable of defending themselves lately, it is just that the Argama and its knockoffs tend to be pretty meh and guess what ship you have for most of the game in every game.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



vibratingsheep posted:

I'm actually okay with the first Ptolemy, it could repair and that made it better than the Argama to me.

Same. Getting Sumeragi's Ace bonus was a kick in the dick but it was multipilot support megatank that could repair so it was not just useful for the whole game but it leveled itself. I missed it during Z2.2.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Oh Snapple! posted:

This also struck me. 2nd OGs got me used to some rad boss themes to blow poo poo up to, and this game was sorely lacking in that.

That said, it was also nice not to have a repeat case of that awful DAMON music overriding poo poo again.

The DAMON were a mix of annoying, horrifying and legitimately difficult and I liked that the music made any fight with big groups of them feel different than the rest of the game. I was really disappointed the ADAMONs of Z2.2 were basically a joke in comparison, even though I groaned every time the surprise reinforcement DAMONs spawned on me during the previous game.

But Insalaum was so well written in general that I didn't mind it that much.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Trombe is OP Terada pls nerf.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Wide formation gives a flat 10% reduction in damage to squaddies IIRC, in addition to having some other bonus against TRI attacks because Wide is supposed to be the counter to TRI.

One of the big reasons I didn't like the TRI system was because of mooks with Wide formation. It doesn't even make the grunt waves hard, just annoying to slog through, and convinces me to stop bothering at all and I end up just nuking everyone with Renton.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Dr Pepper posted:

Just... use Wide or Center formation? Yeah if you're going to spam All attacks on the enemies made resistant to all attacks of course it's going to be a slog.

I don't see how either of those things help. The entire point of center formation is that it focuses fire on a single target so it only makes things slower if anything. Wide formation would be helpful if your squaddies could counterattack during enemy turns but they can't and during your turn it forces you to use PLA weapons anyway which are garbage. I guess if you have the money to fully upgrade the weapons of every single unit it might work but I wouldn't bet on a lousy beam rifle taking down anything in 1 shot otherwise.

Imagine that arbitrarily a third of enemy mook waves had 20/30% more HP. This does not make them harder, it only makes killing them slower. When there is no other way to nuke squads in 1 counterattack but to use ALL/TRI attacks, that is effectively what Wide formation does.

My point is that the usefulness of wide formation is very, very conditional on the player's side of things (and is negated entirely by using SP) but the damage reduction is very noticeable when the enemy uses it. There's no strategy to it, it is just annoying like all HP bloat is. The TRI system is okay for the first third of the game or so but then weapon upgrades make your ALLs better than squaddie PLAs, after that hot blood/soul makes Center formation irrelevant, and when you get Renton it stops mattering altogether.

It was fun early on, sure, but the system only works as intended if you're gimping yourself and not upgrading weapons for some reason.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



It amuses me greatly that they're trying to pass COFFIN OF THE END as a super ominous name. The trailer tries so hard to make it look like the most epic serious business adventure of the OG saga only to shove the goofy title in our faces right after.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Dr Pepper posted:

Because Squads are a ton weaker when not full. Using Center formation to take out the leader leaves the remaining two (who are often weaker units then the Squad Leader to start with) much more vulnerable to ALL and TRIs because the damage penalty to a two man squad is minuscule.


That's the point.

You're not supposed to just be able to spam ALL and Tri attacks, they're weaker against full squads and especially Wide Formation.

Instead try upgrading your squadmates, you know, that way the PLAs won't suck. Or heck, there are plenty of mechs with strong PLA atttacks, just use those.

I totally missed this. Topic kind of drifted by now, but I get that you're arguing for playing the game way it was intended to be played. My point is that doing so makes the game slower than just doubling down on ALLs and TRIs (and killing them that way is also slower than killing other mooks, so it is double the slowness) which kind of matters when the only difficulty to be found is in skill points that say "Clear the stage by turn X". I just wish that the intended way to play Z was the efficient one.

GimmickMan fucked around with this message at May 23, 2014 around 10:26

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Tomb of Gehenna. The last dark god is a vampire. Surprise guest star Valvrave.

Dr Pepper posted:

No it isn't.

I never upgrade weapons, never FUB any unit because I upgrade them equally and I have never had a problem with enemies taking too long to kill and I've never had any particular trouble with the SRs.

Like, is your definition of "too long" something like "I can't wipe out enemy squads in a single All attack."

I thought you were agreeing with me for a moment with the last post because you were basically proving my point. Yeah, if you're not bothering with upgrades to weapons the system makes perfect sense. If you do upgrade your leads though, you will notice that ALLs are superior to Wide in pretty much every way, so why bother using other formations at that point?

Like, I'm not saying you're playing the game wrong, dude. I do challenge runs all the time. I just wish the system that the entire gameplay revolves around actually held up during the mid and late game. Then again SRW pretty much always breaks down halfway through if you put even an ounce of effort into it so that is not anything new, it is just more noticeable.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Dr Pepper posted:

Except you were complaining that the enemies in Wide formation make it so that you can't just spam ALL attacks and win.

You said that Wide Formation makes the game unfun because the enemies can't be beaten with TRI and ALL attacks if they're in Wide.

Then I say try the other formation... then you say that upgrading weapons makes the other formations useless...?

Okay first and foremost here is my original point explained as clearly and concisely as I can: Wide formation is a speedbump. Its supposed counter is to focus them down one by one, or to at least take out one of them then take out the others. How is this not, by default, slower than TRI formations (which explode if you look at them funny) and Center formations (which explode if you use TRI charges)?

Now for the rest... I said it makes the game slower, not unfun and certainly not unwinnable. Maybe if you tried upgrading weapons you'd see what I mean? The combat math in SRW has always favored single super attacks way more than a barrage of weaker ones. This goes double for recent games where the enemies tend to have barriers. Try giving someone a few weapon bars and you'll see that it amounts to a good 5-10k extra damage, not 2 or 3 like the descriptions would imply.

A good chunk of grunt kills in SRW come from enemy phase counterattacks, during which both Center and Wide contribute nothing offensively speaking. During the enemy phase you can still wipe out Wide squads in one go if you use an upgraded ALL finisher or use someone like Kei with an innate damage bonus. Fully upgraded ALL weapons are paradoxically the only way to wipe out Wide enemy squads during a counterattack, too.

The clincher here is that if you upgrade just a single unit to power up your ALLs instead of spreading out your money, you are also upgrading your single target finishers to use with Hot Blood + Support Attack/Attack Again against bosses, so doubling down harder on ALLs and TRIs is actually more efficient than using the other formations.

Most of this would be solved if they let you use more than PLA weapons during Center and Wide and if Hot Blood/Soul worked there too.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Samurai Sanders posted:

I just finished Z3-1. Two things:

I was wondering how mechanically they would deal with the unit size gap in the last TTGL stage, I guess making them all the same size (infinity) worked just fine.

Holy poo poo Shiku's music, does anyone know the title?

edit: found it (spoiler). I have a new entry in my top five final boss musics ever.

What the hell is that thing and what is this music oh god.

And here I thought the Lemures and DAMONs were as creepy as SRW was going to get.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I think the Fatum is a good paintjob away from looking like something out of future silent hill. But as is it looks about as menacing as your average 70's bad guy mech.

e: ^^ holy poo poo that's humongous.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Rascyc posted:

Man whoever it is that does these translations is so hilariously bad haha

I figure they took the translated captions and just replaced the katakana gibberish with english terms.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



We've already had them individually so it is a matter of time until we get Iczer and Demonbane together now.

EthanSteele posted:

I'm playing Z2.1 with the english menu patch and there's an item called DM Armor. The description says "Gives Def+100, 10% EN regen on player phase" and akurasu has it as 10% HP regen instead of EN. I thought regen only happened at the start of player phase anyway? Does it happen each phase otherwise so that 10% EN regen on another part is actually 20% effectively? Or does the DM Armor only make you tougher during the player phase?

If someone could confirm whether it is EN or HP regen also that would be great. I'm leaning towards trusting the akurasu wiki on this one, but I'd like to be certain.

It regens HP and regen of player units always happens during player phase. Akurasu just has inconsistent descriptions for similar effects.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I only just realized that Terada "11/11 is the best birthday" is a Scorpio so I'm hoping we get a new original in Tengoku hen.

I know that Hibiki in the Genion shows up in the preview but I can dream.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



In my ideal dream world you'd get Granteed, Belzellute and Coustwell and you'd be able to slot in anyone into that third mech.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



2nd OGs makes me genuinely pity the megalomaniacal murderous douchebag that is the main antagonist.

The way they handle a lot of characters is a travesty but the good outdoes the bad, I think.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Dr Pepper posted:

OG is what got me into SRW and mecha so I will always love it.

Also this. I've grown more fond of traditional SRWs since then but I will always have a soft spot for OG1, one of the more grounded entries in the franchise.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I think Lamia makes for a better protagonist than Axel, but (post stage 13 spoiler) she is terribly bland as an antagonist.

A was my first non-OG SRW (because of the full script translation) so I have some nostalgia for it. It is the last SRW to feel like one of the classic games in terms of gameplay mechanics, 70s-90s cast list and seeing the same original units (Gespents everywhere) over and over, but is just modern enough to not feel sluggish.

The selection of original mecha, big cast list and relative tough difficulty makes it quite replayable, but you might want to not do that and get A Portable later. The PSP remake of A is the same game but with a few improvements, a lot prettier, and much harder. I really dig it but it is not for everyone.

Playing SRW games chronologically since Alpha/Advance is great. Even the older ones are still fun and you get to see the series get better with each installment. The exception is Impact. Compared to Advance, is a lot more modern in places but it is much slower because of how clunky it is and how pointlessly difficult they made it. And I say this as someone who enjoyed breaking that game over its knee. Don't play Impact.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Davzz posted:

Well, since you're playing an older game, if they're from Gundam, see if they have Newtype. Except in a few edge cases (hi Katz and Fa).

This is one of those things where I think you basically need to have some knowledge of the source material to identify who are the main characters. They generally always have superior stats by around 10-20 points per stat compared to the second stringers and there's almost very little exception to that rule.

Use those guys as a base comparison because there really isn't any numeric rule of thumb like ">160 in a stat is good!" or anything. It's all relative.

There are certain games with some characters that supposedly like "late-game" growths where they gain much more stats at higher levels than lower ones, but I don't think any of them ever work out to be better than the ones that are strong for the entire game. Plus you need a guide to realize that they have this kind of stat-growth in the first place.

Of course, support pilots who are just there to cast Spirit Commands don't really care about their stats.

To add to this:

Keep an eye out for multipilot units. You don't need high accuracy or armor when you can spam Lock On and Iron Wall every Turn. Multipilot units are instrumental to finishing off 100k+ HP Bosses in one turn because the subpilots can spam support Seishin while the lead uses their own offensively. Getter is the most consistently good unit in SRW. It has three spirit banks to both keep it alive while spamming its absurdly powerful finisher and it is in almost every SRW. You can't go wrong with Getter. About the only exception I can think of is Impact, which just further proves you should never play Impact.

Newtypes and Gundam leads not named Kou Uraki are some of the better reals you can field. Newtype leads like Amuro and Kamille often start with garbage units but pull through with better pilot stats, then get really good units and dominate the lategame. Non-Newtype leads like Domon and Heero tend to get superior pilot+mecha stats than other real robots because these games are made by Bandai after all. The exception is Kou from 0083 but no one likes him anyway so whatever. Gundam female characters tend to have great support Seishin but make mediocre pilots, so they're great subpilots or pilots for support units.

Lastly, single pilot super robots that start out good usually get better, while those that start out merely okay end up being mediocre. These go on a pretty case by case basis, because some units are absurdly overpowered in one game but just meh in the next one. If the version of Kouji you've got kicks rear end from the beginning, he's worth keeping. If not, drop him because you'll get someone better down the line anyway.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Getsuya posted:

I don't think I have this Kou guy everyone was talking about yet, but I do have a guy named Shiro who, despite apparently being a Gundam lead from one of the shows or other, is kind of crappy. And, though people have pointed out that Getter is pretty awesome, in A you get Texas Mack who is a great deal more awesome.

I'm coming up on Level 7 which, as the strategy guide puts it, is 'a storm of secret events'. It then goes on to say that doing all the events in level 7 is stupid hard and that most of the units aren't worth keeping anyway, especially when killing them instead of recruiting them nets you two V-Ups. Two V-Ups vs. getting the female versions of Getter and Mazinger isn't too hard of a choice, for me. Maybe if I was more of an old big robot fan.

Also, regarding Alpha, some upgrade guide told me I should make sure to put a lot of points into Quatro's Hyakushiki, but that thing is a piece of junk. At first I thought Quatro was a crappy character, but then I actually looked at his stats and realized he was great he was just in a machine that didn't let him use his potential. Once I got a free Gundam in my hands (I think it's name is Alex or something?) I slapped him in that and he is now 110% better.

Also to let you know how much of a Gundam newbie I am, I was really shocked to find out that Quatro is Char.

Stage 7 of Advance was my first experience with SRW's love for complex sequences of convincing reluctant bad guys to join your side. I recruited everyone I could recruit during that game only to never use them because most of them were pretty bad. I never tried to be a SRW completionist again after that.

e: Advance has one very obvious exception that is absolutely worth recruiting and should be really obvious when you get to it.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



SRW made me into a huge mecha dork and if FMW is half as good it will probably make me a touhou dork.

I should probably try FMW but I am scared to. I've seen what touhou does to people, man.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Spellcards sound really cool to me because they're exactly the kind of thing I'd do to give boss fights a sense of pacing.

Welp time to look at how to get said games. I wonder how long until Steam starts accepting doujin software.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



A Portable is one of my favorite games in the series and I don't even think it is hard, so that sounds fine.

Even if the difficulty comes from restricting your options, it cannot be as bad as Impact.

e: In Impact you spend 90 of 100 stages with access to 50% or 30% of your units. This was your obligatory "gently caress Impact" post of the week. Thanks for reading.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



The Ideon Gun reduces the game to a joke but there is something beautiful about sending a civilization destroyer to tank a few waves of mooks then obliterating the entire enemy force all at once.

Its like watching the show all over again.

The fact that one of the subpilots learns Mercy so you can spam the MAPW without worrying about killing the enemy grunts until you've also reduced all the bosses to nothing is a delicious cherry on top.

  • Locked thread
«5 »