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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


I'm glad Jason Blade is still alive.

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oatgan
Jan 15, 2009



mods please change thread title to "This column is dedicated to the memory of The Ultimate Warrior."

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Knowing that somebody has written Gunner fan fiction has killed me.

I am now dead.

Beef Jerky Robot
Sep 20, 2009

"And the DICK?"


Mods please permaban the account of dead poster lividliquid

TV Zombie
Sep 6, 2011

Once you Whee-in, You can't Whee-out

Dinosaur Gum

That fanfiction could have been way worse. As it was, that wasn't so bad.

Regrettable
Jan 4, 2010


TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

Now to 'scape the serpent's tongue,
We will make amends ere long;
Else the Puck a liar call;
So, good night unto you all.
Now take my hands, if we be friends,
And tell me what my loving knuckles say.

5

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The 'someplace' is a highschool gym.

emjayo
Apr 11, 2013

PWM POTM WINNER
April 2014


Uh, well, these guys are fans... so I guess this belongs here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtqIb7Mwal8

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


If you've ever hated yourself and searched for wrestling poo poo online, chances are you've come across WrestlingForum.com, the most plain jane URL for a wrestling forum out there. This forum is full of real dumb opinions such as

quote:

I know Daniel Bryan having his Wrestlemania moment was great, it was perfect timing, he deserved it blah blah blah... But I really want Kane to destroy DB at Extreme Rules, keep him that unstoppable force that everyone wants to see.

quote:

I wonder if Kane will possibly win the title from Bryan and then maybe drop it at Payback? I suppose anything is possible.

quote:

I really wish Russo would book WWE. Very underrated when he was in WCW. AOL is the reason WCW went out of business, not Russo.

SylvainMustach
Dec 12, 2007

Superior Trash Talk!


From the beautiful land of TNA Mecca and one of their post-impact discussion chats.

quote:

Isn't it funny how wwe booked bearded champion Daniel Bryan vs a newly re-masked monster in a hardcore match just days after TNA tapes a show with bearded champion Eric Young facing a newly re-masked monster in Abyss?

From my understanding, that's wwe ripping off TNA but no wwe mark will bring this up.

Hah! TNA was first at this you dumb marks.

quote:

One thing I love about TNA as of late is how the wrestlers have been presented. Look at Kenny King for example. He is playing a big baller type character which is essentially himself. If it was the other company up north they be having him play a street thug or a basketball player gimmick. It feels organic and that's the key word folks..."Organic".

Where is this basketball player gimmick?

quote:

WWE marks don't know what the world sincerely means, #TheyIsDumberThenDirt

heh

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Your voice may have changed but your breath is still the same.

My goodness, Hot Stuff!


So how are they justifying that "WWE is ripping off TNA" remark? Are they saying Vince has a Time Machine?

Commissar Ken
Dec 9, 2006

"Children love me, dammit!"

SylvainMustach posted:

Where is this basketball player gimmick?


I don't know but I hope to gently caress Sheamus gets it.

"Hey, wanna pass the rock there fella?"

Gonzo McFee posted:

So how are they justifying that "WWE is ripping off TNA" remark? Are they saying Vince has a Time Machine?

Nothing is beyond the means of the HIGHER POWER apparently.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


Gonzo McFee posted:

So how are they justifying that "WWE is ripping off TNA" remark? Are they saying Vince has a Time Machine?

They're saying that the Eric Young push has been on the books for months and so it's coincidental.

Germansimp
May 28, 2013


SylvainMustach posted:

Where is this basketball player gimmick?

Maybe that guy can't tell people apart and believes that Xavier Woods is actually Sugar Dunkerton.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Your voice may have changed but your breath is still the same.

My goodness, Hot Stuff!


Daniel Bryan posted:

They're saying that the Eric Young push has been on the books for months and so it's coincidental.

That's even worse than saying it's just copying WWE. This way they're saying that not only is this a terrible idea but that they had this terrible idea to make the comedy mid card guy champ with no build whatsoever and that that was their plan for months.

Are TNA fans just perpetually in the denial stage of death or something?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Gonzo McFee posted:

That's even worse than saying it's just copying WWE. This way they're saying that not only is this a terrible idea but that they had this terrible idea to make the comedy mid card guy champ with no build whatsoever and that that was their plan for months.

Are TNA fans just perpetually in the denial stage of death or something?

Yes

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
ANYONE WHO CARES ABOUT CHILD KIDNAPPING INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS DEAD TO ME, A SANE AND WELL-ADJUSTED PERSON. MY OTHER THOUGHTS INCLUDE...

I almost think it's cute to be that much of a blind fan to think WWE bit off TNA and not the other way around.

Mob
May 6, 2002

I wanted to change my avatar but I didn't have a good title so I wanted to say suck it hot dogs are sandwiches


Tatum Girlparts posted:

I almost think it's cute to be that much of a blind fan to think WWE bit off TNA and not the other way around.

I've noticed that if you make a Venn diagram of delusional/hardcore TNA fans and the people I see at local shows who, shall we say, really get into it, then you've just got a goddamn circle.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.


Germansimp posted:

Maybe that guy can't tell people apart and believes that Xavier Woods is actually Sugar Dunkerton.

I miss Sugar Dunkerton, is he still doing well and making good t-shirts?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


This is the worst sack yet.

quote:

Ring of Honor Wrestling DVD Review: Jay Lethal - Lethal Injection

Sunday, 27 April 2014 13:49


ROH Wrestling: Jay Lethal

Reviewed by Joe Babinsack

Ring of Honor's Jay Lethal: Lethal Injection is a two disc set, featuring nine matches from 2003-2005 and 11 matches between 2011-2012. To keep it focused, I'm focusing on the first disc.

ROH has produced a large number of compilations over the past year, and I understand that compilations by an indie promotion are meant to capitalize on former names now thriving on other (bigger) stages, but the underlying criticism I have about ROH's compilations is that watching the best of the best almost always gets repetitive. Plus, it's awkward to watch the old, then follow the new, and realize that there is a difference.

Wading through the stack of stuff and the stack of compilations, I realize that Lethal and his recent "turn" and new association with Truth Martini puts him in relevance. He's a guy that has world class talent, a body of work and excellence, and a backstory that a lot of current fans may not know. A very good choice to review, indeed.

Lethal, as the ROH hardcores know, was initially in a faction called Special K and went by the name Hydro. It was a raver-inspired bunch of spoiled brats with athleticism and a big bodyguard, but Hydro was the one touted as the best. His ascension from that faction to a player in the ROH promotion isn't just an interesting one, but a brilliant one and the main points are here on this DVD.
Lethal, as a key member of Special K, comes forth from a match from very early 2003, and really shows his potential, but also highlights probably one of the best incarnations of a young group of heels (aside from FIP's YRR) in a long time.

(Yeah, throw EVOLUTION in my face. I'm no-selling it. It's not the same thing.)

What I like about this glimpse at Special K is the underlying indifference of this faction, spurning the “honor” of ROH, spurring a sense of “heelishness” that makes you want to see them get their due, and with their bodyguard named Slugger – who appears to be an interesting cross of 911 and Mr. Hughes with dreadlocks – there’s a great dynamic of a bunch of young punks protected by a monster.

Along the way, the announce crew does a brilliant job of establishing the group, the potential of that guy named Hydro, and the sheer anarchy of this faction. But before we go further, there’s a sign in the back of the arena, and it is monumental: "We don't imitate, we innovate."

Wow… that is eyebrow-raising. It really hits me as across the industry, we live in an era where professional wrestling is content, not creative; where professional wrestling is following the leader, not establishing an alternative; where professional wrestling still clings to a booking concept three generations of fans outdated, and constantly rejects any notion of starting a new cycle.

Sure, ROH isn’t so likely to put the belt on Cheeseburger, but the way this business works, I wouldn’t be so surprised. The main point is that a decade ago, there was creativity in professional wrestling, especially as presented by Ring of Honor circa 2003-2005, had a mid-card storyline in place that would eventual elevate a fresh young face to main event status.

This storyline is based on having a strong champion, based on having a tier of elite wrestlers, and based on the development of this story, the investment of time and talk, the involvement of the fans, and the inevitable establishment of Jay Lethal. Can a Hydro become a Jay Lethal in 2014? My pessimism rises to mind, but let’s take a look at some of the main points in that development and how it happened in ROH a decade removed.

Special K vs The Ring Crew Express & The Outcast Killaz

This is a pretty good example of Special K in action, focusing on the talent of Hydro, in a ring full of good talent and innovative talent and otherwise forgettable names. I really enjoyed the enthusiasm of the announce crew and their focus on innovation (the atypical dives, the interesting twists on things, a sunset flip powerbomb that looked a lot like the Canadian Destroyer and a variant of the F-5), on the shenanigans of Special K and the presence of Slugger. Special K as a heel faction stirs up the emotions and the potentials, but that’s a path long forgotten. The pin was clever and visual, which are two things that aren’t said these days all that much.

Hydro vs Alex Shelley

Many may have forgotten the initial version of Generation Next and Alex Shelley as the head honcho. In 2004, Hydro proved himself by hanging with Shelley, and what was awesome was the way the crowd rallied behind a guy who was with another heel group, but who was getting a bit of a spotlight and was getting some steam from all the accolades. That, plus he can really go. Another match with really strong commentating: spelling out the story on both sides of the match, getting into the details, and overall, a sense that Hydro is becoming more and more serious in his approach, distancing himself from the raver crew.

Hydro vs CM Punk

The key here is that Hydro shames punk into a match, on a night where Punk just embarrassed the promotion and its tag team titles. The storytelling was great, from the interplay to the announcing to the ability of the soon-to-be Jay lethal to hang with Punk and make him make the match. All this before the match even begins.

And it continued when the match starts, as Hydro plays to the Code of Honor, and shake hands for the first time. His growth is touted by the announce crew and the build of the match. It doesn’t matter that this is a domination by a top tier talent in ROH. Actually, it does matter. The story is told in the ring and by the talking: "you don't get noticed wrestling guys your level, or lower". How true, how true.

What ROH established at this time (in mid 2004) is a pecking order. Samoa Joe as Champion; CM Punk as a top indie player; a number of guys jockeying for position, and Hydro as a guy who went to the top of the food chain, and demanded a match. This is the way to establish a name as a rising star. This was a time when CM Punk was all about intimidating, and Hydro stood up to him. We saw Punk wipe the mat with jobbers, but Hydro proved he was rising up the pecking order.

As an aside, CM Punk was messing with Ricky Steamboat, and chasing Samoa Joe, the crew suggests that he may be looking ahead, but in the ring, Hydro was taking everything Punk had, and survived, survived, survived. In doing so, it told a chapter in a much bigger picture, and it got the attention of the fans, and more importantly, as seen in promos following.
That’s the kind of connection so sorely missing these days.

Jay Lethal vs Low Ki

Thus begins an interesting sidebar to the Jay Lethal saga: his feud with Low Ki. Here, he’s the protégé of Samoa Joe, and Low Ki is the guy who is a level above, who is no stepping stone, but a foe to be conquered. Oh yeah, and the leading up to Jay Lethal is in the promos before this match. In that era of professional wrestling, that’s still a building block for a long term program.

Jay Lethal & Samoa Joe vs Nigel McGuiness & John Walters

The Pure Title becomes an interesting point of contention in the commentary here, as Joe sees it as a way that diminishes his Title, and the rules aren’t any less controversial to him. It’s interesting that the announce crew can talk about things that lead to longer term conflicts, not just what’s in store for the current match, all the while not distracting from the current match. Solid tag team action, with the always interesting Nigel McGuiness and the interesting glimpse at John Walters, who looks more like a typical Indie guy than I remember, but also had a different sort of style, which obviously played into his Pure Title reign.

Jay Lethal vs Spanky

Now the Pure Title is in Spanky’s hands, and Lethal is challenging. How will Samoa Joe react? Well, that’s the culmination of this disc. Here, Lethal takes the big step to establishing himself as a player. It’s well over two years since the first match on this compilation, and it’s not rushed at all, and with each match, the development of Jay Lethal is evident. Following is Jay Lethal & Samoa Joe vs Low Ki & Homicide, a tag match of brutality and some really dangerous spots. At this time we know Lethal is the real deal, as do the fans.

Which leads to Lethal vs Low Ki (a Fight Without Honor, at Glory by Honor IV (Sept 2005)). Can Lethal finally dethrone his nemesis? How can he with Julius Smokes at ringside? But does he have the fans? Does Samoa Joe have his back? So many questions, but look at that word count!

Jay Lethal vs Samoa Joe

And then there’s the culmination of every good protégé story, or so I’ve learned, and the match between student and teacher ensues. While I’ll let the reader buy the DVD to see this very good match, the story of the match is a story in the ring, with Lethal having a game plan, and an expectation in everyone’s mind that it will either be a Muscle Buster or a Dragon Suplex at the end.
I’ve always liked Lethal, and he’s a guy with that quality called “fire”, which shines from day one. From his time as Black Machismo to his return to his ill-fated unfortunately necessary creatively inspired recent heel turn, he’s proven to be a guy that a promotion can build around.

But realize that factions, tiers of talent and layered storylines can make a talent like Jay Lethal even better.

DarkstarIV
Apr 6, 2010

Ms. Money


Reminder, wrestling reports tend to be smarky as hell and full of babies:

quote:

Dot Net Member Adam Dunn attended WWE Raw in St. Louis, Missouri and sent the following report.

Half the upper deck was tarped off. I've never seen that before.

The crowd was red hot to start the show. Lot's of noise for the Bray Wyatt and John Cena opening segment, which came across simply amazing live.

The Uso's winning was very well received too.

Either I've gotten old or they have turned up the audio on the shows to deafening levels. I never remember it being that loud for the dozen or so events I have been too. Every commercial break and entrance theme was like a rock concert.

The crowd was dead until Daniel Bryan came out, and then they were dead for the remainder of the show. There was just an empty feeling in the arena with simply too much filler.

Overall, it was probably the worst wrestling show I've been to. And that includes a godawful Smackdown in 2004 where Josh Matthews was in the main event. Unless someone gives me ringside seats, I won't be at the Survivor Series in November.

Last night's RAW wasn't even bad. Good? Probably not. But not the WORST WRESTLING SHOW EVER.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


They were just saying it was the worst show they had been to. That doesn't mean it was the worst ever.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


Daniel Bryan posted:

They were just saying it was the worst show they had been to. That doesn't mean it was the worst ever.

Every show is increasingly worst than the last, this is the slime trail of the smark.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


In-arena audio has always been deafening for some reason.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



I was talking about scummy reviewers with some friends and remembered the legendary Babinsack email to Smart Mark Video.

quote:

Greetings!

Joe Babinsack here. I write reviews for Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer/Figure Four web site.

I would be very, very much interested in reviewing the Ultra Mantis Black "Strangeways" DVD and hyping it. I also write for other publications, and would spread the word anywhere I can.

(I already asked CHIKARA, but they said they can't give me this one.)

If there are any other opportunities to review, I'd love to see any other DVD's. I try to cover the indy wrestling scene (just like you guys!) and I get regular copies from ROH, Dragon Gate/Evolve and other promotions, as well as books from ECW Press and others.

In the end, I may just buy this DVD, but I've found that the dynamics of a review copy isn't the same as paying for one. If I buy it, it will be hype for the ROH/CHIKARA angle, not so much for the DVD.

Thanks much,
Joe Babinsack

Karmine
Oct 23, 2003

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.


epitasis posted:

In-arena audio has always been deafening for some reason.

So that it sounds good on TV.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


that makes sense

JK!
May 10, 2007

Five Feet of Fury


I wasn't there Monday, but I've been to almost every RAW or PPV in StL since 2006 and it's never been dead for long periods of the show. I can't imagine it was like that the other night. But hell I could be wrong.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


JK! posted:

I wasn't there Monday, but I've been to almost every RAW or PPV in StL since 2006 and it's never been dead for long periods of the show. I can't imagine it was like that the other night. But hell I could be wrong.

It was. They cared about Cena, Bryan and I guess the Shield a little bit. Not much else.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


More dumb stuff:

quote:

Why the hell do so many people like Daniel Bryan I dont get it he is a joke there marketing him as unstopable and people are buying in it really pisses me off what a joke wrestling has become and those Yes chants are so stupid the freaking arena sounds like a freaking orgasm Im sick of it There going to make him the next Cena hopefuly people will get tired of him like Cena

Daniel Bryan is going to be booked as the next Cena. BORING!!!!!!!!!

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000



future scoopin'...


Daniel Bryan posted:

More dumb stuff:

Whenever I see a post like that I wonder who the person would prefer were being "treated like Cena." Like if they actually have an alternate preference for Most Popular Guy out of the current roster or if they just wish Hogan/Stone Cold was still World Champion and wrestling is trash because it's not exactly the same as when they were 10-14.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


Sanguinia posted:

Whenever I see a post like that I wonder who the person would prefer were being "treated like Cena." Like if they actually have an alternate preference for Most Popular Guy out of the current roster or if they just wish Hogan/Stone Cold was still World Champion and wrestling is trash because it's not exactly the same as when they were 10-14.

Or that anyone booked as an underdog and then wins is "Cena." As if it's not one of the oldest wrestling angles of all time.

Beef Jerky Robot
Sep 20, 2009

"And the DICK?"


David vs Goliath WMOTYC

Retromancer
Aug 21, 2007

Every time I see Goatse, I think of Maureen. That's the last thing I saw. Before I blacked out. The sight of that man's anus.

Beef Jerky Robot posted:

David vs Goliath WMOTYC

To be fair, there was no way that match was gonna live up to that build. And the fact that David just hit his finisher and won was just the cherry on top of the poo poo sundae. Then David had that super baby face reign that seemed to last forever until they put some edge back on his character with the Bathsheba angle.

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


Say 'Thank you, Ershin'.

Say it.



Retromancer posted:

To be fair, there was no way that match was gonna live up to that build. And the fact that David just hit his finisher and won was just the cherry on top of the poo poo sundae. Then David had that super baby face reign that seemed to last forever until they put some edge back on his character with the Bathsheba angle.

David did spend some time playing CM Punk to Saul's Cena before his reign though.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


From Reddit:

quote:

Should Daniel Bryan turn heel?

There were a few things I was afraid might happen if he won the title and IMO it all seems to be happening.

He would get the "CM Punk treatment". His match with Kane is an afterthought compared to Shield vs Evolution and Wyatt vs Cena. I don't think many people care that much about this match nor does anyone expect Kane to win. This whole match/feud screams of creative not having any better ideas and Kane is the old reliable (along with heel Big Show, but he just recently went through a heel/face turn with the authority, another one wouldn't make sense, even by Big Show standards).

He's losing steam. Watching him on Monday night he was clearly over, but not as over as he was before winning the title. It seems like the yes chants are more out of a sense of obligation now than being "organic" like Bryan said the yes movement was.

They don't know any other way to book him as a babyface. How do you book a guy who's appeal has been getting beat down every week on RAW for like 8 months in pursuit of the belt? I guess the answer is to keep beating him down while he tries to defend it. There's a few problems with this. First of all this is getting old and boring. I think some people are tired of the same old poo poo and are losing interest. The other problem is this makes Bryan look weak. The Champ shouldn't be getting destroyed by Kane. Compare Bryan to the Shield. The Shield squashed Kane and the outlaws. They beat up 11 guys on Smackdown. They took a Daniel Bryan like beat down on RAW and still came back to win the brawl. If we've established that Bryan is strong enough in kayfabe to beat Triple H and go on to basically win a handicap match against Evolution in the same night, then they shouldn't be afraid to book him that strong on a weekly basis.

They're protecting him from over exposure. Since WM, he's wrestled Triple H as a vehicle for a Shield face turn, marked out with Hogan for some Hogan rub, been beat up again, and returned with his usual "You're full of crap...listen to these people" promo. I think they might be afraid the crowd will turn on him. The top heels(Triple H, Bray, Lesnar/Heyman, Cesaro, Barrett) are so over could possibly steel his thunder.

Tl;dr he's not the star of the show right now, he's losing steam, they don't know where to go with him now, they don't know who to put him up against, and his character/promos/booking is getting stale.

This is a lot of assuming when the dude has basically not been on the show since Mania with unforeseen circumstances being largely the reason. Still probably the most over "as a face" guy they have, and based on these few unfortunate weeks HE SHOULD TURN HEEL!!!

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you


MassRafTer posted:

This is the worst sack yet.

quote:

ROH has produced a large number of compilations over the past year, and I understand that compilations by an indie promotion are meant to capitalize on former names now thriving on other (bigger) stages, but the underlying criticism I have about ROH's compilations is that watching the best of the best almost always gets repetitive. Plus, it's awkward to watch the old, then follow the new, and realize that there is a difference.

Ugh I'm so tired of ROH putting out compilations of their best matches, where is my Christopher Street Connection 2 disc set

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA



Ugh I'm so tired of ROH putting out compilations of their best matches, where is my Christopher Street Connection 2 disc set
[/quote]

I can't get over that he finds it awkward to realize there is a difference between things that are old and things that are new. Whenever I see my grandmother holding her great granddaughter I find it terribly awkward to realize the difference.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


Capitalizing on someone who was a star in your company and is now a bigger star in another company is just good business and I have no idea how anybody can't grasp that.

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sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Daniel Bryan posted:

This is a lot of assuming when the dude has basically not been on the show since Mania with unforeseen circumstances being largely the reason. Still probably the most over "as a face" guy they have, and based on these few unfortunate weeks HE SHOULD TURN HEEL!!!
His father dying, yes, but a honeymoon isn't really unforeseen. It actually isn't really a good idea for a major star to get married on Mania week, but it's not like I'm going to criticize him for that.

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