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Peanut3141 posted:Tom's has the 750 Ti 4 tiers above a 460SE. Not sure how that translates as I'm having difficulty finding benchmarks that span 3 generations of Nvidia. That's pretty significant, as I recall- I just hate assuming anything will be better just because it's newer. Nvidia in particular is notorious for launching OEM cards with misleading naming conventions.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:05
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Even if its only a marginal improvement I'm going to see pretty big improvements in power consumption. On the other hand it's only a $100 jump to a 760. It's just that I was hoping to hold out spending "real" money on a GPU for when 4K monitors start getting more reasonable and for cards that can actually handle 4K to hit the market.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:06
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Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:Even if its only a marginal improvement I'm going to see pretty big improvements in power consumption. On the other hand it's only a $100 jump to a 760. It's just that I was hoping to hold out spending "real" money on a GPU for when 4K monitors start getting more reasonable and for cards that can actually handle 4K to hit the market. That's not going to happen. If you want 4k performance it's sli or $500 or more single card solutions. Anything above 1900x1080 performance is going to command a huge premium for the next few years minimum.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:09
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Crackbone posted:That's not going to happen. If you want 4k performance it's sli or $500 or more single card solutions. Anything above 1900x1080 performance is going to command a huge premium for the next few years minimum. I was gonna say even the loftiest expectations for the next generation of cards won't really run 4k acceptably unless you spend... probably way more than $500 for a single card. On the plus side, 4k monitor's will probably become very reasonable much sooner. A lot of stuff happening now with that. Cool for desktop use I suppose. For fuzzy pipe, and I know nobody wants to hear this, but if you want a card to hold you over until next gen stuff buy used. Stick with nvidia if you do (dont want clapped out buttminer crap)
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Apr 12, 2014 23:13
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Crackbone posted:That's not going to happen. If you want 4k performance it's sli or $500 or more single card solutions. Anything above 1900x1080 performance is going to command a huge premium for the next few years minimum. I was basically hoping to be able to grab a good 4K monitor for less than $1k and a graphics solution that can power it for ~$500. It seems monitor's are hitting the price points I'm looking for. But the $500 price point for a GPU won't cut it yet. Edit: Talking about doing this in 2015 probably. I'm probably going with the 760 for now though.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:14
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Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:I was basically hoping to be able to grab a good 4K monitor for less than $1k and a graphics solution that can power it for ~$500. It seems monitor's are hitting the price points I'm looking for. But the $500 price point for a GPU won't cut it yet. The last benchmark I saw with 4k required four titans to run 55 fps for metro with max settings. There is no amount of turning down settings that will produce any sort of acceptable gameplay for a $500 card anytime soon. Sadly. 2x 770 SLI would probably be the best value for usable 4k, and the closest to $500, and I know its not super close. 770 equivalents for next gen might bring you to $500 but there is no way of knowing.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:19
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Peanut3141 posted:Tom's has the 750 Ti 4 tiers above a 460SE. Not sure how that translates as I'm having difficulty finding benchmarks that span 3 generations of Nvidia. Well given that the 650Ti Boost has very very similar to the 750Ti, you can kinda fudge it a bit like this: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/859?vs=782 Also feel free to take off ~5 frames from the 460 benches since he has the SE version.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:53
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Sir Unimaginative posted:On the other hand, NCIX not getting off their asses to re-sign their site post-post-haste is a serious vote of no confidence. Order either from Amazon or Newegg w/ Shoprunner. Getting parts online from anywhere else is a bust in my opinion.
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Apr 13, 2014 00:13
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drat NIGGA posted:Not really, you just might not be able to fit all the connectors behind the motherboard tray, but just tie up all the connectors you won't be using to make sure they don't obstruct airflow and you're good. Ah, that's no big deal then. Thanks!
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Apr 13, 2014 01:07
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I have had nothing but problems with Motherboards that use RealTek Audio, I usually end up adding a Sound Card to stop the system from crashing regularly. Are there any Intel Motherboards that have non-RealTek audio?
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Apr 13, 2014 03:16
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Some gamer boards have Creative, but that's worse. Also the occasional Via or Sigmatel audio, which is between the Realtek standard and the bottom of the barrel. My guess is you're hoping for a C-Media 8780-series - in which case you'd want a Xonar_DGX or something USB anyway so it doesn't dictate your board choices in the future. Realtek is assumed to be the standard these days, so for compatibility reasons it seems like a good idea to at least have it on your board. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 04:07
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So my 460gtx seems to have died after 4 years. Even if there's a fix for whatever is plaguing it I'm ready to upgrade anyways. Reading the thread it looks like a 660ti is the best to go for but newegg only shows 1 exists? Anyway ti or not, I'm pretty sure my computer has a PCI slot but I'm not sure what version, they are all compatible forwards and backwards correct? Can someone more knowledgable than me link me which one to buy..
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Apr 13, 2014 04:32
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Nitramster posted:So my 460gtx seems to have died after 4 years. Even if there's a fix for whatever is plaguing it I'm ready to upgrade anyways. Reading the thread it looks like a 660ti is the best to go for but newegg only shows 1 exists? Don't get the 660ti, the 760 costs the same/less, and has better performance. And yes your PCIe slot is fully compatible.
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Apr 13, 2014 04:44
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Hace posted:Don't get the 660ti, the 760 costs the same/less, and has better performance. Yes agree, 660ti is good but outdated and out of production. I wouldn't get one over a 760 even if they were both being made just based on memory bus nitra
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Apr 13, 2014 05:08
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Re-did some selections for my potential gaming system. Anything I should change/consider? It would be great if I could get it under $1000, but I'll live with it if that's what needed higher end gaming. I could probably drop the Bluray player, but I want to be able to put my Final Fantasy X OST on my computer.  PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock B85M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg) Memory: Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($54.99 @ Amazon) Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($139.99 @ Amazon) Storage: Western Digital RE4 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($81.08 @ Amazon) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($259.99 @ Amazon) Case: Corsair 350D MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg) Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US) Optical Drive: LG UH12NS29 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($54.98 @ SuperBiiz) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC) Total: $1060.97 PunkBoy fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 05:13
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PunkBoy posted:Re-did some selections for my potential gaming system. Anything I should change/consider? It would be great if I could get it under $1000, but I'll live with it if that's what needed higher end gaming. I could probably drop the Bluray player, but I want to be able to put my Final Fantasy X OST on my computer. You shouldn't be getting an RE4, they cost more and have weird firmware that'll make things screwy. Get this instead: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex Don't get Blu-Ray drives, you have to pay another $50 just to get software to be able to playback discs. Also you might as well get a slightly cheaper 760 with sweet sweet EVGA support: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-02gp43765kr PCPartPicker part list CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock B85M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg) Memory: Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($54.99 @ Amazon) Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($139.99 @ Amazon) Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.99 @ NCIX US) Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($249.99 @ Newegg) Case: Corsair 350D MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg) Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US) Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC) Total: $986.89
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Apr 13, 2014 05:38
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Hace posted:You shouldn't be getting an RE4, they cost more and have weird firmware that'll make things screwy. Get this instead: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex Yeah, I was iffy on the RE4. Reviews were pretty low. Thanks for the suggestions!
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Apr 13, 2014 06:24
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I'm putting together a list of parts for a new system and I need some help making a decision regarding my GPU. From my old system I have a GTX 580 that's still good, so I'm wondering if I should just use that for a while or get a new GPU now. From the link in the OP the difference between it and a 760 isn't that much, but there is a bigger difference to the 770. I'm only going up to 1080p gaming and I could afford either, I just don't want to spend money if I don't have to.
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Apr 13, 2014 07:57
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If I were you, I'd wait until the 800 series before picking up a new GPU. But if you really want a new one, the 770 would give you the biggest step up without breaking bank, yeah. What does the rest of your system look like, by the way?
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Apr 13, 2014 08:09
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Current system: E8400 P5K Pro 4gb ram misc HDD's that im going to trash I'm thinking of keeping my PSU as well as its a Corsair AX850.
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Apr 13, 2014 08:20
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That's a great unit, and it has a 7 year warrenty so that's hardly a bad idea at all. I'm surprised that you have such a high end PSU and GPU, while still holding to a E8400 though.
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Apr 13, 2014 08:28
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Hace posted:
I needed new ones at the time and I could get these with "mates rates". As for the E8400, I've been meaning to replace it for a while but it just keeps chugging along and giving acceptable performance so I keep putting it off. It is really starting to show it's age now though. Personally I think the 580 was making up some of the shortfall from the CPU.
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Apr 13, 2014 08:41
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Thank you for this thread. I was wondering about a point in the OP about hyperthreading. Intel notes that both the i5 and i7 have that tech as well as turboboost. The i5 can come in both dual or quad core depending on the model number (ark.intel is a great site to verify this, i5 list) and it is correct to say that quad core hyperthreading can be a problem for a lot of programs; intel even agrees. So how can I be sure to recommend an i5 to someone if it still suffers from the same hyperthreading issue as the i7? I don't think a vast majority of people need i7s but if there is a recommendation to avoid the i7 primarily because of the threading problem, then shouldn't that also be a concern of the i5?
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Apr 13, 2014 09:00
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ellic posted:Thank you for this thread. I was wondering about a point in the OP about hyperthreading. Intel notes that both the i5 and i7 have that tech as well as turboboost. The i5 can come in both dual or quad core depending on the model number (ark.intel is a great site to verify this, i5 list) and it is correct to say that quad core hyperthreading can be a problem for a lot of programs; intel even agrees. So how can I be sure to recommend an i5 to someone if it still suffers from the same hyperthreading issue as the i7? I don't think a vast majority of people need i7s but if there is a recommendation to avoid the i7 primarily because of the threading problem, then shouldn't that also be a concern of the i5? You only want to be looking at these. The only i5's that are dual-cores are laptop or embedded variants, all desktop i5 models are quad-cores. If you want something to recommend, the i5 4570 strikes a great balance between price and performance, granted that you aren't planning to overclock with it. Also I'd hardly say that hyperthreading causes problems for most programs, it's more that most programs simply don't take advantage of hyperthreading.
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Apr 13, 2014 09:09
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Is it worth it to go for the i5 4670 over the 4570, if the price difference is only $20?
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Apr 13, 2014 09:28
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If it's comfortably within your budget, it can't hurt. That should probably be one the last things to worry about, however.
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Apr 13, 2014 09:35
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PunkBoy posted:Yeah, I was iffy on the RE4. Reviews were pretty low. Thanks for the suggestions!
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Apr 13, 2014 13:58
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Alereon posted:Reminder: Memory is installed in matched pairs. Installing only one module will cut memory bandwidth in half, severely impacting system performance. Reminder: No it doesn't unless you use iGPU.
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Apr 13, 2014 15:04
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Does anyone here have any personal experience that would help me decide between the windowed and windowless version of the Define R4, specifically in regards to the windowed panel? Does it let more noise out or is it too small to really be noticed? I want quiet, but if the window isn't that detrimental to noise blocking, I guess it'd be cool to look in.
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Apr 13, 2014 15:24
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Nitramster posted:Reading the thread it looks like a 660ti is the best to go for but newegg only shows 1 exists? I'm so confused when people say stuff like this. Where exactly did you see a recommendation for 660ti? I see one mention of it in the entire thread besides yours which is the OP saying that a benchmark chart had a rare appearance of the 660ti. I just have to wonder where things have gone wrong when people say they have read the thread but come up with an oddball part. Alereon posted:Reminder: Memory is installed in matched pairs. Installing only one module will cut memory bandwidth in half, severely impacting system performance. This actually isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. Have a look at this. Pretty extensive testing showing that two sticks only really affects synthetic benchmarks. I would say personally that the advantage of getting two sticks would be that testing for bad RAM would be a bit easier in that you could test with one stick or the other, but you'd still have to send both back in an RMA situation. Otherwise, get whatever is cheaper as long as it's still good quality. beejay fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 16:05
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Alereon posted:Reminder: Memory is installed in matched pairs. Installing only one module will cut memory bandwidth in half, severely impacting system performance. This hasn't been true for a good long time.
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Apr 13, 2014 16:20
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deimos posted:Reminder: No it doesn't unless you use iGPU. beejay posted:This actually isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. Have a look at this. Pretty extensive testing showing that two sticks only really affects synthetic benchmarks. I would say personally that the advantage of getting two sticks would be that testing for bad RAM would be a bit easier in that you could test with one stick or the other, but you'd still have to send both back in an RMA situation. Otherwise, get whatever is cheaper as long as it's still good quality. Crackbone posted:This hasn't been true for a good long time. This also means that performance scales with memory bandwidth even beyond dual-channel DDR3-1600, because it's not 20-loving-10 anymore and modern CPUs running modern applications need lots of memory bandwidth to feed them. Here's some recent benchmarks showing memory bandwidth scaling performance: XbitLabs application tests, gaming benchmarks (holy crap Thief needs memory bandwidth) Anandtech CPU real world, single-GPU gaming, I'm even ignoring the CPU compute numbers that are most memory bandwidth sensitive As you can see, there's a relatively big jump in performance from DDR3-1333 to 1600, another from 1600 to 1866, and a smaller jump from 1866 to 2133Mhz. There is some scaling beyond that but we're past diminishing returns even for memory bandwidth sensitive applications. Those paying attention will notice that the above benchmarks are with overclocked CPUs so slightly exaggerate the benefits from high memory clocks, feel free to ignore scaling results above 1866Mhz, but a 10% clock bump isn't what makes single-channel memory or dual-channel DDR3-1333 slow. What we actually care about is value though, so we need to take into account the prices for these modules: G.Skill Aegis 1x8GB DDR3-1600 for $67.99 (comedy option) G.Skill Aegis 2x4GB DDR3-1333 for $69.99 (second comedy option) G.Skill Ares 2x4GB DDR3-1600 for $64.99 G.Skill Ares 2x4GB DDR3-1866 for $71.10 G.Skill Ares 2.4GB DDR3-2133 for $74.99 (1.60v) Looking at those choices, getting less than dual-channel DDR3-1600 is obviously wrong, and the value proposition for buying DDR3-1866 over 1600 is pretty strong, as the increase in price very closely tracks the increase in performance. In 16GB kits you can even get 1.50v DDR3-2133 for minimal price premium over DDR3-1866. This isn't just academic either, there are real world situations where systems with less than dual-channel DDR3-1600 drop frames during high quality HD playback (see Anandtech HTPC benchmarks involving madVR video rendering). I'm not saying DDR3-1333 gives an obviously bad user experience in the same way that single-channel memory does, but since there are known performance and usability impacts and it's not any cheaper it simply doesn't make sense to ever buy less than dual-channel DDR3-1600. To specifically address that Gamersnext article, note that they used RAM overclocked to 2400Mhz, which is 50% faster than DDR3-1600. That moves it from being as slow as old DDR2 to almost as fast as DDR3-1333, helping alleviate some of the worst performance impacts. To put this into real-world perspective, my main system is currently a C2Q 9550@3.6Ghz with a GTX 670 and 8GB of dual-channel DDR2 running at 933Mhz, the same bandwidth as single-channel DDR3-1866. This system is starting to feel slow primarily due to the memory bandwidth, I can feel the slowdown when background tasks begin consuming memory bandwidth. This is a CPU with 12MB of L2 cache, the only reason it's lasted as long as it has is because this huge cache is reducing the impact of the old slow RAM. A current-gen CPU is going to have an on-die memory controller that helps things, but it's also going to have half the cache and need more memory bandwidth to remain fed. All this is to say that no, single-channel DDR3-1600 is not fine. E: Just to be clear I am not annoyed at you at all Rockopolis, that is the kind of thing it's reasonable not to know and is why this thread is here, I'm just a little bit frustrated that no one else mentioned it and then argued about it when I pointed it out. Alereon fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 17:36
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Well, guess I'm going to need to buy another stick then. I'd like to thank this thread for all of the help and insults, they were all very helpful. I'm a month into my new build and everything is running very well. Now I'm looking to get some better fans. I've got a Bitfenix Prodigy M case, and I have a i5-4670, and both of them are using the default fans. It's quieter than my old computer, but something about the whine gets extremely irritating in a quiet room. I'm not entirely sure if it's the case fan or the CPU fan that is so irritating, it might be both. My motherboard had only one four pin connector for case fans, while I got a pair of three pin fans with the case. One of them is just gathering dust in my parts box. The OP had recommendations for CPU fans, but are there any recommendations for case fans? I am also thinking about getting the Bitfenix Recon fan controller; I'm not using my 5.25 bay and I figure I will need it to run more than one case fan or control their speed.
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Apr 13, 2014 17:56
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Alereon posted:With all due respect, these posts are borderline idiotic. Maybe I'm missing it but where in any of that does it make a distinction about one vs. two sticks of memory?
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Apr 13, 2014 20:12
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Rockopolis posted:
Noctua makes some really quality quiet fans. Specifically for 120mm: NF-P12 PWM or NF-F12 PWM. They are ugly looking and fairly expensive though. Scythe is a pretty good alternative for less money or if you don't like brown/beige fans. kompukarl fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 21:15
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beejay posted:Maybe I'm missing it but where in any of that does it make a distinction about one vs. two sticks of memory?
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Apr 13, 2014 22:07
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kompukarl posted:Noctua makes some really quality quiet fans. Specifically for 120mm: NF-P12 PWM or NF-F12 PWM. They are ugly looking and fairly expensive though. Scythe is a pretty good alternative for less money or if you don't like brown/beige fans. Prolimatech Pro USV 14 could be good as well, since they mount to 120mm fan openings. Prolimatech also has out 120mm Pro USV too - I'm using one in my case and it's quiet and yet effective.
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Apr 13, 2014 22:16
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Hmm interesting. So the gamers nexus thing that I linked is basically no good because they clocked the RAM up too fast thus eliminating the bandwidth bottleneck?
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Apr 13, 2014 22:18
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Alright, so doing some revisions based on what I got from you guys about my previous build. Here's what I got. PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock B85M Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($71.97 @ Newegg) Memory: Team 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($85.99 @ Amazon) Storage: Western Digital RE3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($57.26 @ Amazon) Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($239.99 @ NCIX US) Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($45.62 @ NCIX US) Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 450W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Amazon) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC) Monitor: Asus VN248H 23.8" Monitor ($134.99 @ Newegg) Total: $1040.77 (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.) (Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-04-13 17:09 EDT-0400) Added in a SSD, new HD, better chip and graphics card. If I space out some purchases, this shouldn't be a problem budgetwise. One question though: with the GTX 760, do I need to look at PSU with more wattage?
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Apr 13, 2014 22:21
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beejay posted:Hmm interesting. So the gamers nexus thing that I linked is basically no good because they clocked the RAM up too fast thus eliminating the bandwidth bottleneck?
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Apr 13, 2014 22:27
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