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ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

One thing I would like to see in a city builder is the ability to commission certain developments. Letting markets fill in zones is cool, but sometimes governments make specific deals to build specific things, like the biggest skyscrapers, and other mega projects. See also: Public housing. It would be cool to see local markets react to a bunch of public housing, or a massive tower being plopped nearby. Actually, I don't know how it is elsewhere, but in NYC most really tall buildings and big developments need a ton of local government approval before they can even break ground. More so than smaller construction.

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ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Iunnrais posted:

Speaking of that... I wonder if it might be possible to still have a game and yet not be quite so libertarian. Make people actually willing to put up with high taxes in order to have a nice place to live, for example. Or make it so that unless there's upwards mobility, rich people won't just magically appear.

Not sure liberal ideas would necessarily make a better game. Just musing outloud.

I agree with you. I never liked how ridged the tax system in SimCity games has always felt. I think tax tolerance should be based on the quality of the city as a whole. People aren't going to tolerate high taxes if the city doesn't offer much for it. Wealthy people will complain, but if your city is awesome and safe, they will stick around despite their grumblings.

My wishlist feature is a good crime simulation, complete with crime maps. Different kinds of crimes would be symptoms of different kinds of problems, and how you choose to combat crime would ultimately shape how people feel about your city.

ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at May 1, 2014 around 03:26

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

I guess no one here played Cities XL very much but in that game you have to draw a connecting road as the first step in your city.

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

If my google map measuring tool is correct, a 50km x 50km square is enough for all 5 boroughs of NYC to scale, with bits and pieces of New Jersey (including all of Hoboken, Secacaucus, Jersey City, Fort Lee, Bayonne and most of Newark) as well as parts of Long Island.

So 50km x 50km square would have a perimeter of 200km correct? I am not misremembering my elementary school geometry here? This square I have drawn is 200km when all four sides are added.

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Baronjutter posted:

I'd much rather have "little" 5x5 or 10x10 maps but with lots of detail and gameplay vs massive 50x50 maps with no depth or charm. Cities XL proved bigger isn't always better.

Cities XL didn't really prove anything because it was basically bad at everything it did. Unless every map is going to be specifically hand crafted, there is literally no downside to allowing huge map sizes. And crafted maps for this kind of game SUCK because ultimately there are going to optimal builds for each one discovered. Map editing tools and random map generation is the way it goes for this sort of game.

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Baronjutter posted:

I didn't mean anything about bland maps, I meant bland cities due to lack of personalization and details or the little things even mattering because the scale focus is so massive. When you make the scale of the game absolutely massive you have to sacrifice your simulation detail.

That's fine but you can't use Cities XL as proof of that when the game was completely bad from just about every perspective you could examine it from. And no other city game has tried to go that big.

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

And we also have no idea how long this game will even take to be made and what an average PC is going to look like, power wise, when it is done, so talking about adding limitations now is pretty stupid, especially when the base engine itself is still largely unfinished.

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Baronjutter posted:

For these sort of games I'm pretty sure simulation is always the biggest CPU budget. Pathfinding is bloody expensive.

Interesting piece of news out of Cities: Skylines. They are going to model parking along with having the option to have street parking on your roads. I really really hope citybound models parking as well. Road design/capacity is only half the story in vehicle transport systems, parking is the other half. Parking is one of the biggest forces that shapes cities.

Is there a singular place for Skylines news (that kind of collects any and all sources) or is there just like a main page for blog posts?

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ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Baronjutter posted:

I always ended up making so much money that I didn't realy need to mess with sliders, but it was something you HAD to know how to do early on and was a silly level of micro. It's one of those things that sounds nice, sounds like you're giving the player more control, but it's just needless micro because there's a single correct answer. Maybe just a few global sliders to auto-adjust the funding levels would have worked.

It's a lot like Cities In Motion 2 where they gave you literally about 50 different types of transit tickets you could (and had to) set prices for. There was absolutely a single optimal right answer, but it was a feature people wanted so they added it in. It was critical to have your ticket prices "correct" but it was so much micro people didn't bother. Any micro where there's a single correct answer needs to be abstracted away assuming the player is choosing the optimal option. yet there's often people who will fight to keep those things, "I love the detail! I love the sense of control!". There's people who think the pipe management in Skylines is worthwhile for instance and don't want it to go away, for instance.

Those people should generally be ignored because they are precisely the ones who will buy the latest X game regardless, especially in a niche genre like sims where there isn't much to choose from. I'm all for depth, but too much micromanagement isn't actually fun and it is even worse, like you said, when there is a clear right choice.

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