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Serious Frolicking posted:However, if someone wants to earnestly defend it feel free. It would probably be more entertaining than the show itself. I recognize it has flaws but just happen to like it.  I like the magic, the fights, and yeah, the characters are interesting to me, though I can see why they don't appeal to others.MrCinos posted:And for all the "Gary Stu"-ness of main cahracter, he would still have a few close calls in the series. I think Tatsuya's main flaw is his lack of social skills. That said, he still has a group of friends already.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:35
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Srice posted:
It does get a lot better explained in the manga and light novel(I'm reading and keeping pace with the show). Basically particles called psions are channeled into the CAD's, which processes the psions into spells. I think that's kind of close to how magic would really work in a modern/future setting, hypothetically. Srice posted:
Stall_19 posted:I'm going to continue watching this to figure out the hype. This is suppose to be massively popular in Japan and after watching the first three episodes I have no idea why. It's also popular in China despite the light novel supposedly(not questioning the claims, just not read that far to avoid spoilers) being racist. Probably for so bad it's good reasons.
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Apr 25, 2014 22:14
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Srice posted:So they could have just said that and saved what, 10-15 minutes over the course of 3 episodes? You were able to explain in a few sentences what this anime couldn't in several lengthy scenes. I dislike that things aren't explained thoroughly either. I have issues about staying focused, remembering things, and taking in information, so it kind of sent me into a panic a couple of times like when they mention "helmetsplitting" without going into what it is or what makes it special, and I had to rewatch it to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
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Apr 25, 2014 22:42
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Serious Frolicking posted:Here, the only thing wrong with elitism is that the author's self-insert isn't included. I kind of hate Satou without knowing anything about him. The discrimination in general is presented as being bad. Issues are raised with Course 2 students not having a say in anything, and Tatsuya's friends being put down is also in an obviously negative light.
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Apr 26, 2014 01:06
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In the manga and LN(I'm still only up to the magic duel with Hanzo and am probably going to stop reading there), it's noted that the counselor looks at him a weird way and he thinks she might be trying to be flirtatious with him. I was spoiled on this, but she's actually a ninja and is there for a secret purpose I forgot. I still like the series but this was certainly the weakest episode.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:38
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Postal Parcel posted:That is...amazing. So, in the main characters(The Family Incest) mind, those No, the Course 1/Course 2 segregation is definitely considered bullshit by the narrative.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:15
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organism posted:Just to clear up some of the ideological stuff that has been poorly explained in the anime, Blanche's argument is that it's unfair that magician's are automatically given preferential status in society because of natural born talents. Tatsuya's objection is that the preferential treatment is not guaranteed because, despite inborn talent, it actually takes a lot of education and hard work to make that talent useful and it's only after all that work that magician's are given preferential treatment. Which holds true for any profession really. Just because someone has a talent for math or sports doesn't mean they automatically become a top scientist or athlete. Exactly. Keep in mind also that Blanche is lying about being for equality.
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May 2, 2014 00:17
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The bad guys don't truly have an argument, though. The show isn't against equality by making the bad guys for equality because the bad guys are not for equality.
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May 2, 2014 04:04
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Serious Frolicking posted:The funny part is, a lot of magicians get shunted off to the military but they still end up wealthy somehow. The peculiar elitism which pervades this setting includes the military in the upper crust of society. In other words, imperial japan wankery. So, the anime version of the original Starship Troopers book? Edit: Not that it's a good thing really, but it's not something I'm bothered by, at least. There's more to Imperial Japan then just the military. Only the ten clans are especially notable. Most still do come from relatively normal families. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 17:29 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 16:59
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Silver2195 posted:Same. I feel a little sorry for anyone who's still actually watching. I still like it, but the "you aren't really discriminated at all" aspects of the latest episode is a little uncomfortable here, if it really is meant to reflect real life. Today's episode should at least ease the complaint about villain's not believing their ideology, since Sayaka and other pawns of Blanche apparently do, and a lot of time was spent on debating the issue.
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May 4, 2014 06:02
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Srice posted:
The last episode was almost nothing but debating it, and Mayumi wanting to end the discrimination among students.
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May 5, 2014 13:43
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Srice posted:And earlier there was that chat about how those people who want equality are just too gosh darned emotional about it and if only they would look at it rationally they would understand. No, the terrorist organization manipulating the Course 2 students bombed the school. Some may have helped, but they are just being jerked around. The point of it is that Blanche is convincing them the school discriminates when it's mostly just the Course 1 students, but Mayumi also comments on how it's unfair only Course 1 students an be on the council and I am pretty sure I saw a spoiler saying that policy is revoked eventually.
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May 5, 2014 17:51
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Srice posted:
Because, for the purposes of the story, the Course 2 students are just being used as convenient tools. Narratively, the issue is just a means for the students to be controlled. As it's pointed out, the school doesn't actually discriminate against them and when it's asked how they do Sayaka can't come up with anything. It's just a way for the bad guy to get their claws into the school.
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May 5, 2014 18:18
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Srice posted:
I know what you're saying, and I'm saying that from the author's point of view there just needs to be an excuse for the villain of the story to manipulate people.
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May 5, 2014 19:45
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uuuummm posted:So... is anyone watching this unironically? I am. SSNeoman posted:I have no idea why they're starting a school shooting though. Other than "they're evil" and "the plot says so". The school itself isn't actually doing anything wrong though, the Course 1 students are, and that's addressed. The lack of teacher's also isn't a problem that can be solved by just hiring more. There isn't enough to hire in the first place.
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May 6, 2014 13:23
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Srice posted:I think the school failing to function as, well, a school is a problem that they can be blamed for! The school can only hire hire teachers if they exist. Tatsuya's "I already know everything" is because of their hosed up past more then anything, and not just being smart. They're less Holden Caulfield and more teenage Damian Wayne.
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May 6, 2014 17:04
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SSNeoman posted:I mean you can read between the lines here, right? Particularly the girl's response? This is the author trying to say that everything about existing infrastructure is fine. If you want to change it, you are wrong and will embarrass yourself. What can the school do if they are already getting as many teachers as they can? It's like asking a farmer to harvest crop from a field that's already barren.
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May 6, 2014 17:06
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Ytlaya posted:Like Desuwa says, it's absurd that there are supposedly only enough teachers in the entire country for half of one high school. There are multiple magio high schools, the one in the show is the First. I've been saying the author could have just needed to set up a way for the Course 2 students to be manipulated. Out of universe, you could replace it with anything else. The whole situation is just there as an explanation of how Blanche is loving with the school. [Bad Guy] manipulates students because [Set Up] to carry out their evil plan for [Setting].
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May 6, 2014 17:56
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Most people are fine with The Dark Knight Rises basically doing the exact same thing. The people wanting equality are victims too, and the good guys aren't against equality, they think Sayaka and her friends are being hosed with. Which they are. Edit: quote:I mean, the show is telling me to root for the guy that talks about how poor people deserve to be poor, and that people who are discriminated against should not try to make things better? That's an exaggeration. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 18:08
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Srice posted:Yeah and the people who are oppressing others are absolutely not victims. This isn't South Park! But they did have legitimate complaints, with how the Course 1 students act towards them, which was brought up as fact and put in a heavily negative light that the main characters(mostly Course 2 students) are against. It's been like that the entire show. Srice posted:
She didn't know how she wanted to change the system. Tatsuya wasn't railing against the poor, he was just pointing out how Blanche is misleading people(ie that magic people are keeping others down). WickedHate fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 18:13
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Srice posted:(Real talk you should legit respond to Tarranon's post about Card up there, I think he said what I'm trying to say in a better way) That's what I was meaning to reply to with The Dark Knight Rises comparison, which before now I'd not heard many criticisms of on that issue(my own fault).
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May 6, 2014 19:42
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I've been answering from the author's point of view.
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May 6, 2014 22:09
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And I have said that the why is possibly just to move the plot in a certain direction. It just gives the Bad guy a convenient following. Which is my interpretation of it, anyways. I don't know the author's thoughts.
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May 6, 2014 22:48
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I just don't see it the same way, I guess.
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May 6, 2014 23:22
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Tarranon posted:just a quick question, can you think of one popular tv show, movie, or book that is about an ideology? I know what allegory is, I just don't think it's in favor of discrimination. Nationalism, maybe, but we haven't got to those parts yet. The show is not without it's flaws. I just disagree with this one.
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May 6, 2014 23:51
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I don't think it can be disproved, I just don't see it that way for the reasons I stated(them not actually arguing for equality or the MC against it and the possibility it's just a plot tool, plus that the actual discrimination against Course 2 students is shown to be bad multiple times).
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May 7, 2014 01:24
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Serious Frolicking posted:Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Wrong. Discrimination against Tatsuya is shown, and this is presented as bad. No discrimination against Tatsuya's classmates is ever mentioned or shown. The first episode has it affect Leo, Erika, and Mizuki.
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May 7, 2014 01:32
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He still hasn't said anything about poor people or rich people. He only pointed out that Blanche was making non magic people think magicians didn't work hard themselves. His flaws are totally manufactured, though. He's supposed to be an anti social loner genetically designed to only feel love for his sister but he has tons of friends by the end of the first episode anyway.
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May 7, 2014 16:52
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Srice posted:"What Blanche sees as discrimination is the gap between median income." Alright, that's fairly incriminating.
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May 7, 2014 17:17
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I can probably keep ignoring the worst parts. So far the supposed message can be knocked off with wishful thinking and hoping that it's not got deeper meaning. Would be cool to read an interview with the author, though.
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 19:39 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 19:27
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BlitzBlast posted:You know it's okay to admit that a show is awful. You can still watch it, just you're not sticking your head in the sand trying to justify watching it. I'm not saying it's perfect. There are things wrong with it, and there are things about it that I like. In the case of the nationalism, I can just forget the possibility it's meant to be a nationalist metaphor.
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May 7, 2014 20:17
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Namtab posted:It's possible to watch this show without resorting to doublethink, y'know. I'm not. I'm only saying that if it is meant to be libertarian I can forget about that and enjoy the surface of it.
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May 7, 2014 20:48
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Namtab posted:The surface of it being the show about a gary stu and his sister who is in love with him?
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May 7, 2014 21:39
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That's basically what I'm doing. By "ignoring them", I don't mean denying they might exist, just not letting them get in the way of my personal enjoyment of it.
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May 7, 2014 22:50
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darkgray posted:I hope you'll be this passionate when Dainihon Samurai Girl becomes (?) anime. It's about a hyper-right-wing 16-year-old girl who wants to become dictator of Japan in order to arm the nation with nuclear weaponry, so they can take on China and whatever, and she's persuaded to become an idol first, since it's the fastest way to the political top. Great stuff. That sounds way worse. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 04:02 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 22:00
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Phobophilia posted:as a magic user i am oppressed because Magic users aren't oppressed, the bad guys just trick people into thinking that the magicians are elitist. Which works in a meta way, too.
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May 9, 2014 00:59
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Tatsuya and Miyuki are gonna be in a fighting game, ironically with Tatsuya just being a support character.
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May 9, 2014 17:38
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He's not that bad aside from the tranquil personality.
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May 9, 2014 17:57
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Ytlaya posted:Well, and the right-wing politics. I still think that at the very least the characters themselves aren't right wing, and I'm still not entirely convinced about it having a real life message.
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May 9, 2014 19:02
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Paper Triangle posted:I've held my tongue this long but I think it may help you to understand that the reason people keep stepping to you in this thread may have to do with the fact that you think it's possible for a work of art (in the loosest sense of the word here) to either have or not have a "real life message." I guess I would kinda define a message as such as being one in which the author intends a specific meaning. Past that is death of the author kind of stuff, which is fine in an analytic way, though if a work offends an audience because a lot of them perceive an unintended message, that's still a flaw on the works part. I can't say for sure if it is or isn't nationalist. My personal opinion is that I don't think it is.
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May 9, 2014 23:11
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