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The purpose of this thread is to "take the temperature" of the SA forums regarding the ongoing NYC carriage horse debate. A cliff's notes background, our new mayor was elected mostly on his promise to ban the horses and send them into retirement. The FBI is now investigating whether unfair or illegal influence was made by these PETA-esque groups to get him into office. On one side, you have the anti-carriage crowd. They typically: -are not horse owners -do not know much about horses -think it is cruel for an animal to work -think it is cruel to shoe horses -know so little about horse anatomy that they take video of things like chestnuts (a vestigial toe which looks like a scab) and claim the horse is being worked while critically injured -promote blatant lies about how the horses are cared for, including they have to stand in filthy stalls, they never get to sleep, they go for long periods without water, etc. On the other side, we have the pro-carriage crowd. I am one of these. We: -Understand that horses, and humans, generally do better if we have something to "do" -See that the horses are very well cared for -Have opened the stables to inspection to the public. The anti crowd generally refuses to tour the stables to see that these horses are taken care of very, VERY well Disclaimer: I do have a personal interest in this. I own a horse that competes at a regional level, I have been a horse owner all my life, and am currently training with a grand prix dressage trainer. I worked at 56th and 6th for years and years, and every day at lunch I would take a walk to the landing area. Never, not once did I see a horse that was in poor condition, lame or otherwise in distress. On hot days they had ample water. The shoeing was always impeccable. These horses were always kept in a condition that if you snuck one of them into our grand prix barn, someone might question that it was a half draft, but *nobody* would question their health, condition or temperament. So, what do you guys have to say, SA? Any thoughts? arguments for or against?
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Apr 26, 2014 01:53
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 16:40 |
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de Blasio was elected for a lot of reasons, I don't recall any of his stances on carriage horses being one of them. I must salute your bravery for bringing up horses in this forum. Ahh, the forbidden shitass crazy fruit of pet people. I honestly have no issue with working carriage horses so long as they are well cared for, and rules are in place against them working in extremes of heat or cold. However, regulation often grates against horse people at all levels. Fortunately, in a place like New York, regulations are well in place, and people are pretty used to having to follow things like 'rules', weird as they can be.
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Apr 26, 2014 02:44
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As of this morning the FBI was investigating hostile actions during the election by the anti-carriage group NYCLASS. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/fbi-probes-alleged-threats-christine-quinn-refusing-ban-buggy-article-1.1768376 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/25/christine-quinn-horse-carriage_n_5212027.html
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Apr 26, 2014 03:35
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horses slow traffic and poo poo everywhere and the drivers dump feed on the ground that attract hordes of birds that poo poo everywhere else. They should at the very least be banned from 59th street and other main roads and made to stay in the park proper preferably with a requirement to clean up after the horses.
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Apr 26, 2014 04:02
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Ero posted:our new mayor was elected mostly on his promise to ban the horses and send them into retirement. Suspect Bucket posted:de Blasio was elected for a lot of reasons, I don't recall any of his stances on carriage horses being one of them. Yeah, I must have missed this completely during election season, only saw mention of it recently. Thy would be a pretty insane single issue to run on, way worse than "the rent is too drat high". From my casual observation the horses seem well treated but I don't think there's any need to have them in traffic and stinking up 59th street. Their time has passed, I'm ready for robot drawn carriages.
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Apr 26, 2014 09:03
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I work just a couple blocks south of Central Park and see the horse carriages regularly. While I don't know anything about horses, from what I can see they do seem healthy and to me don't seem strained by slowly pulling the carriages while INSIDE the park. But, OUTSIDE the park they seem unstable and uncomfortable in the streets. Midtown is horrible chaos to drive a car in, ride a bike in or even walk in since this place is full of tourists. No place for a living creature who doesn't know what's going on (and really no place for anyone, Midtown is just generally horrible!) I sometimes bike into Midtown to get to work if the subways are down and biking in Midtown is some scary poo poo. Not to get all dramatic here, but there are a billion chances of being run over or having something suddenly come into your way. You have to be hyper aware of everything and be prepared for anything. A horse doesn't know this. The driver does, but the horse can only maneuver so finely. All I know of the horse carriage saga is from what I've actually seen, so maybe I don't know the whole situation here. But, I feel like at the very least they could restrict them from leaving the park. Move the stables into the park so they'd never have to deal with the crazy streets. Apple Jax fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 16:12
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Real hurthling! posted:horses slow traffic and poo poo everywhere What do you mean, aren't the carriages equipped with those handy poo poo-catching bags that hang behind the horse? Like this one in Vienna: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jPobSOpc7hw/ThWV1vQG-xI/AAAAAAAAkKw/R9Qj6ZgRhmE/s1600/Fiaker-Michaelerplatz-%25C2%25A9-Merisi-Vienna_0034.jpg
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May 2, 2014 10:05
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I think carriages are cool and horses are pretty and if I see carriage with horsey I wanna ride in it pretend I'm a princess.
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May 2, 2014 14:46
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Superconsndar posted:I think carriages are cool and horses are pretty and if I see carriage with horsey I wanna ride in it pretend I'm a princess. More like a drag queen in my opinion. But yeah as long as the horses are being kept up on I don't really care.
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May 2, 2014 14:58
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:What do you mean, aren't the carriages equipped with those handy poo poo-catching bags that hang behind the horse? Like this one in Vienna: The diaper contraptions they use don't catch everything or have capacities that are too small for a whole day's worth of poo poo and not even all carriages have them. the carriage routes are streaked with manure most days. Back in 2011 it was a minor issue when the mayor didn't take complaints seriously and gave a sarcastic response to reporters about how he'd tell the cops to get right on fining carriages instead of catching robbers or whatever.
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May 5, 2014 00:51
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I've been around horses my whole life and the carriages are fine by me. They have very strict regulations, are generally well taken care of, and are also really neat. I don't live there so I can't comment on traffic but it would be a shame to loose some of the last working horses in this country.
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May 12, 2014 04:58
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Silver Nitrate posted:I've been around horses my whole life and the carriages are fine by me. They have very strict regulations, are generally well taken care of, and are also really neat. I don't live there so I can't comment on traffic but it would be a shame to loose some of the last working horses in this country. If they were to loose the horses, it would indeed be quite a calamity - not to mention dangerous for the horses!
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May 12, 2014 13:09
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:If they were to loose the horses, it would indeed be quite a calamity - not to mention dangerous for the horses! loving grammar naz- ok, just kidding, that was pretty loving funny. http://www.ny1.com/content/pages/208398/amid-carriage-debate--silence-on-race-horse-deaths-confuses-some posted:Almost 150 [track horses] have died since March 2009, most of them from injuries during races. "That's a statistic I had not heard more before, and obviously concerns me," said Mayor Bill de Blasio. Yeah, data are irrelevant to mayors.
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May 12, 2014 15:13
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:If they were to loose the horses, it would indeed be quite a calamity - not to mention dangerous for the horses! 
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May 12, 2014 18:19
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 16:40 |
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Life long horse owner here. I have no problem with working horses and I'm not concerned about abuse. The traffic question is worth discussing in my mind, mostly from the angle that it does seem to be really irritating to other users. As much as I like horses, I'd be pissed too if I was stuck behind a horse during rush hour. What about limiting the streets they're on and/or restricting them to the park? The manure is another consideration. No one cares in rural areas, but I can sympathize in the city. It would cost a lot to have someone picking up the manure more regularly.
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Jun 4, 2014 18:56
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