Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«3 »
  • Locked thread
redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Simple question, all my computers now have SSDs and transfers are maxing at like 130MB/s on my network which is about right for gigabit networks. Is it even possible to get faster bandwidth than this without breaking the bank? I have heard of NIC bonding but don't know how/what/whatever to get that working. Any help is appreciated.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Straker
Nov 10, 2005

by Ralp


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-gigabit_Ethernet

Newegg has decent enough 10gige NICs for like $400, so guess it depends on whether it's worth it to you? That seems way more useful/less of a headache than bonding and poo poo just for double the bandwidth.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

bonding won't help you with a single datastream. It's 10gbe or perhaps a few used FC HBAs off of ebay, depending on your technical prowess (which judging by the existence of this thread, is not as high as it would need to be).

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Yeah that stuff definitely seems too expensive. Darn!

Bokito
Jul 25, 2007
Going Ape

Maybe you can go with Thunderbolt 2 networking?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/07/...t-2-networking/

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Bokito posted:

Maybe you can go with Thunderbolt 2 networking?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/07/...t-2-networking/

That is actually the most reasonable for the speed except for the fact that it isn't really a network, just 1 to 1 computer.

pram
Jun 10, 2001


You can get Infiniband stuff pretty cheap, a lot cheaper than most 10g equipment at any rate. HCAs are usually under $50 on ebay depending on how fast you want it.

este
Feb 17, 2004

Boing!


Dinosaur Gum

redeyes posted:

That is actually the most reasonable for the speed except for the fact that it isn't really a network, just 1 to 1 computer.

Simply implement Token-Ring-over-Thunderbolt

Malcolm
May 11, 2008


I tried but I can't find the Apple-talk Control Panel. Chooser can't detect my laserjet printer either!

inignot
Aug 31, 2003

WWBCD?

Make sure you have jumbo frames turned on. Also have tcp window scaling turned on.

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003

QUITE.


Fallen Rib

Malcolm posted:

I tried but I can't find the Apple-talk Control Panel. Chooser can't detect my laserjet printer either!

Did you check your TCP/IP settings?

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten



Why the gently caress does ytmnd take longer to load now than it did back in 2000 or whenever it first started?

EDIT: Oh, it's a flash thing.

almost1337
Jun 14, 2013

The male likpatons turn around the nucleus formed of female boobons and neutral bolsterons


The easiest thing for you would definitely be 10GbE copper, but you'll have to be willing to pay for it.

doomisland
Oct 5, 2004



10Gbe copper is gross and won't actually hit 10Gb after the cable is longer than a few meters I believe.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

the cyberpunk dystopia is now
you are not the runner


Clever Betty

doomisland posted:

10Gbe copper is gross and won't actually hit 10Gb after the cable is longer than a few meters I believe.

only with 6, 6A/7 should let you do what you need.

Super Soaker Party!
May 4, 2006

He may be a madposter but he's OUR madposter

Clapping Larry

doomisland posted:

10Gbe copper is gross and won't actually hit 10Gb after the cable is longer than a few meters I believe.

Except that as soon as you go SFP+ you have to either take your chances on lovely Chinese SFPs actually managing to get around the switch-makers' protections and register themselves as authentic, or pay out the rear end for the OEM SFPs. I cannot loving wait for 10Gbe copper to come down in price - I'd much rather pay a slight premium for Cat7 than hundreds or thousands of dollars PER PORT just so I can have the privilege of buying expensive fiber cable to plug things in. And I don't need SFP/fiber connections in my top of rack switch except to trunk back to the main stack anyway, so their argument that it's more flexible than RJ45 ports is loving stupid.

Or of course I can use Twinax, which has the same length limitations as Cat6 (or worse, I think Cat6 will do 20-30 meters and Twinax stops after 15) and STILL has compatibility problems because Cisco/Brocade etc. don't want to let go of the sweet sweet razor blade cash for buying their proprietary modules, most likely made in the exact same factories as the knockoffs but without the special codes embedded that proclaim them "authentic". The whole business is a loving racket and should be ended post-loving haste.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Seriously, the whole SFP nonsense is absolute extortion and I hate it.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

the cyberpunk dystopia is now
you are not the runner


Clever Betty

Approved optics has real good prices and I've never had a compatibility issue, though I think I've only used them for sfp not sfp+

Super Soaker Party!
May 4, 2006

He may be a madposter but he's OUR madposter

Clapping Larry

Captain Foo posted:

Approved optics has real good prices and I've never had a compatibility issue, though I think I've only used them for sfp not sfp+

Well the other problem is that the switch makers are always playing catchup with blocking the third parties, which means that a new release of software will inevitably render some previously-compatible third-party SFPs incompatible. Depending on how often you update your switches this may or may not be a problem, but if you have a large deployment of third-party SFPs and upgrade, suddenly that "free" switch upgrade (which these days is less and less free, at least with Cisco) just cost you a mint in new SFPs. Plus potential downtime and complete confusion if you're not aware of the issue, since if you have a mix of SFPs, SOME may stop working and others may be fine, and you'll have no idea why.

And of course the companies say up front "we absolutely don't support third party SFPs because they could not work". Hey listen. I get that. The third party stuff may not be held to the same quality standards. But don't tell me that the supposed quality difference is worth literally 10 times as much. When it's clearly just gouging me is when I get pissed off and start calling it a racket. (Also, I've never heard of any real quality differences in these things in terms of packet errors or speed issues).

It's the same issue as Ford or Toyota claiming you need to use their parts and only their parts, and I believe there were laws passed to prevent them from disallowing warranty service etc. Though maybe I'm misremembering. But there's certainly nothing currently to prevent switch makers from doing it, until RJ-45 becomes more prevalent in 10 GBe switches.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

believe it or not, you can have 10gbase-t at home for a reasonable price.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/NE...x?enkwrd=XS708E

It's not cheap, but it's pretty impressive that they are able to give you 10gbase-t for $1k.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


I'm waiting for 10G to be natively built into motherboards. At least for high end workstations to start.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Shaocaholica posted:

I'm waiting for 10G to be natively built into motherboards. At least for high end workstations to start.
One issue is interface bandwidth, 10GigE is ~1250MB/sec, but PCI-Express 3.0 x1 is 1000MB/sec, and workstations only offer PCI-Express 2.0 from the chipset. A maximum of 8 lanes are available, including integrated peripherals, and you'd need PCI-E 2.0 x4 to saturate 10GigE. Coincidentally, there is a total of 2GB/sec in both directions to the CPU, shared among all system devices, which could make saturating GigE difficult. I'm hoping we'll see a bus upgrade to DMI 3.0 for 4GB/sec in both directions with Broadwell.

Now imagine the CPU usage from a Realtek 10GigE chipset at full throughput

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


I'm more interested in the price drop when it becomes ubiquitous. Even if its PCIe capped at 2G-5G I'd be fine with that on first gen integrated stuff. Anything better than 1G and bonding.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

I can't be bothered to lookup the timelines, but it certainly seems that 1000BaseT has now been ubiquitous for longer than 10- or 100-. It first started coming out on motherboards in like 2000? My laptop in 2003 certainly had it.

Anjow
Aug 14, 2006



Potato Alley posted:

Except that as soon as you go SFP+ you have to either take your chances on lovely Chinese SFPs actually managing to get around the switch-makers' protections and register themselves as authentic, or pay out the rear end for the OEM SFPs.

In my last job I bought probably more than 200 'lovely' Chinese SFP+ modules for around $40 each for SR and $60 for LR. Of those, around 3 were DOA and none of the others had any problems. All we had to do was enable 'service unsupported transceiver' on our Cisco gear, then we had full diagnostics and monitoring, it reported the wavelength in IOS, and we didn't have any problems. I have since seen the same SFPs (exact same casing) from several 'manufacturers', so I imagine they are widely rebranded.

Stealthgerbil
Dec 15, 2004


Going off of ebay I could probably build out a 4gb fiber network for my servers and my desktop for about $150-$160. Think it would be fun or worth learning about? I could get a switch for about $80-$100 and then the cards for about $20 each. It would be kind of useful for setting up high availability virtual machines and also doing backups and stuff. Would it be worth doing for fun?

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Stealthgerbil posted:

Going off of ebay I could probably build out a 4gb fiber network for my servers and my desktop for about $150-$160. Think it would be fun or worth learning about? I could get a switch for about $80-$100 and then the cards for about $20 each. It would be kind of useful for setting up high availability virtual machines and also doing backups and stuff. Would it be worth doing for fun?

What parts did you find at those prices? How expensive is the fiber itself? I'd love to replace the gigabit cat6 to my garage with fiber.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!


College Slice

Stealthgerbil posted:

Going off of ebay I could probably build out a 4gb fiber network for my servers and my desktop for about $150-$160. Think it would be fun or worth learning about? I could get a switch for about $80-$100 and then the cards for about $20 each. It would be kind of useful for setting up high availability virtual machines and also doing backups and stuff. Would it be worth doing for fun?

With storage switches and hbas and IP over fc? Not sure how widespread something like that would be.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

why bother with a switch? Can't you just go hba to hba?

Stealthgerbil
Dec 15, 2004


I have multiple servers that I would want to link up. Plus it would be kind of cool. Also I have no idea how this stuff works so it would be fun to learn.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Looks like you can get bulk SFP 4gig modules at a pretty good price. If you could track down a few blank SFP NICs on the cheap this might be possible for less than a couple hundred. Dunno where to find blank SFP adapters though, they all seem to come with modules included.

EDIT: I was able to find on eBay 16 4gig modules and a 8-port switch filled with 2gig modules for less than 50 bucks total. Seems like that + a couple cheapish single-port NICs would be enough. Wonder what the cable costs are. I've got a 75 meter run and a 10 meter run I'd need to do.

EDIT2: After doing more reading I'm wondering if it's even possible to just plug in faster SFP modules into a switch or if the switch needs to have some type of support for that module? Are they plug-and-play?

revmoo fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2014 around 12:47

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

the cyberpunk dystopia is now
you are not the runner


Clever Betty

revmoo posted:

Looks like you can get bulk SFP 4gig modules at a pretty good price. If you could track down a few blank SFP NICs on the cheap this might be possible for less than a couple hundred. Dunno where to find blank SFP adapters though, they all seem to come with modules included.

EDIT: I was able to find on eBay 16 4gig modules and a 8-port switch filled with 2gig modules for less than 50 bucks total. Seems like that + a couple cheapish single-port NICs would be enough. Wonder what the cable costs are. I've got a 75 meter run and a 10 meter run I'd need to do.

EDIT2: After doing more reading I'm wondering if it's even possible to just plug in faster SFP modules into a switch or if the switch needs to have some type of support for that module? Are they plug-and-play?

depends on the switch, read the datasheets for your piece of gear

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007



revmoo posted:

Looks like you can get bulk SFP 4gig modules at a pretty good price. If you could track down a few blank SFP NICs on the cheap this might be possible for less than a couple hundred. Dunno where to find blank SFP adapters though, they all seem to come with modules included.

EDIT: I was able to find on eBay 16 4gig modules and a 8-port switch filled with 2gig modules for less than 50 bucks total. Seems like that + a couple cheapish single-port NICs would be enough. Wonder what the cable costs are. I've got a 75 meter run and a 10 meter run I'd need to do.

EDIT2: After doing more reading I'm wondering if it's even possible to just plug in faster SFP modules into a switch or if the switch needs to have some type of support for that module? Are they plug-and-play?

Are you talking about Ethernet or FC? Most Ethernet switches don't support 4Gb GBICs (The only exception I know of is Adtran, and they're proprietary and need Adtran equipment on both sides).

As far as I've seen, the Netgear 10gbe stuff is the cheapest.

http://www.pcnation.com/web/details...CFSJo7AodZUkA5Q

Cat6 works for 10g up to 37/55 meters (depending on crosstalk conditions), and Cat6a can do the full 100.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

You could do 10G SFP+ Direct Attach for a home network since runs are <10m, right? I've always used up to 25ft Ethernet cables for my setups. Of course you still need to pay for a switch and NICs, and I guess the cables become a non-trivial expense after a certain point, but you don't need to pay for SFP+ modules. This also lets you buy an SFP+ module if you need a longer run or compatibility with hardware that doesn't support Direct Attach.

SFP+ Direct Attach gives me something of a nerdboner, it's just hilarious that we made a socket for modular transceivers, and then were like "wait, why do we need transceivers again?" and just hooked the sockets together with a cable, letting them talk to eachother directly using the protocol originally designed for the socket to talk to the transceiver.

Alereon fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 17:24

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

the cyberpunk dystopia is now
you are not the runner


Clever Betty

Alereon posted:

You could do 10G SFP+ Direct Attach for a home network since runs are <10m, right? I've always used up to 25ft Ethernet cables for my setups. Of course you still need to pay for a switch and NICs, and I guess the cables become a non-trivial expense after a certain point, but you don't need to pay for SFP+ modules. This also lets you buy an SFP+ module if you need a longer run or compatibility with hardware that doesn't support Direct Attach.

SFP+ Direct Attach gives me something of a nerdboner, it's just hilarious that we made a socket for modular transceivers, and then were like "wait, why do we need transceivers again?" and just hooked the sockets together with a cable, letting them talk to eachother directly using the protocol originally designed for the socket to talk to the transceiver.

I didn't know about this but it's hilarious

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007



Alereon posted:

You could do 10G SFP+ Direct Attach for a home network since runs are <10m, right? I've always used up to 25ft Ethernet cables for my setups. Of course you still need to pay for a switch and NICs, and I guess the cables become a non-trivial expense after a certain point, but you don't need to pay for SFP+ modules. This also lets you buy an SFP+ module if you need a longer run or compatibility with hardware that doesn't support Direct Attach.

SFP+ Direct Attach gives me something of a nerdboner, it's just hilarious that we made a socket for modular transceivers, and then were like "wait, why do we need transceivers again?" and just hooked the sockets together with a cable, letting them talk to eachother directly using the protocol originally designed for the socket to talk to the transceiver.

Direct attach cables are a pain in the rear end to wall fish or do anything with that's not in a rack. Also, they're more expensive than Cat6, and they have compatibility issues over 5M (since anything over 5M typically requires active cables). HP actually makes 15M active cables now, BTW. If you asked me 2 years ago, I'd say do direct attach. Now? Just use 10G Base-T (unless you have a device that doesn't have that option). Direct attach is still worth it for 40G QSFP+, though.

JavaDoc
Jul 13, 2014


adorai posted:

bonding won't help you with a single datastream.

In the majority case this is definitely true. If we're talking theoretical maximums then you could use more than one gigabit link with multipath TCP and get a throughput higher than 1Gbit/s. The tooling cost for this setup and the workloads it would be good for limit its usefulness to a point where buying a pair of 10Gbit/s Ethernet cards is probably cheaper.

Stealthgerbil
Dec 15, 2004


Could I buy two http://www.stikc.com/QLogic-QLE2460...category=780539 and use them to link one of my server 2012 servers to another server running nexenta?

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.


just use token ring you whipper snappers

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


atomicthumbs posted:

just use token ring you whipper snappers

Via a complex series of mirrors and lenses I use IR transmission to handle all of my LAN communication.

  • Locked thread
«3 »