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Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



Dred_furst posted:

Picked this up yesterday, been making a base for the last few hours, and this is what I've ended up with:
Pretty happy with it so far, just starting to expand into plastics.
Plastics are good. Namely, they allow for electric furnaces, which are cool and useful, and for advanced circuits, which are used in a shitload of stuff.

You are going to start stalling on circuits once you ramp up. Once you get to tier 3 (blue science), everything becomes SUPER circuit heavy. If there is any line other than copper/iron you want to go both sides on, it is loving circuits.

I've reached the endgame with my little desert base. I have my factory producing distractor capsules. I have been using them to ravage bases (and to manually turn into destroyer capsules). I built mk2 power armor, and loaded it up as such.

Enemies are less dangerous when you can outrun them all. My strategy has been to capsule myself a robot army, and run around in circles while everything dies.

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Ra-amun
Feb 25, 2011


How quick is everyone getting to blue science production? I have a fifteen hour save that I stopped playing with mostly the power armor / purple science stuff left to research but I like to run around and watch my factory do its thing.

Sometimes I won't have anything researching either while I try to figure out a way for my factory to look as aesthetically pleasing as possible. There was a big gap of time for me after green science where I didn't do much with oil while I was trying to set up a nice looking refinery setup.

Fujoshisaur
Sep 5, 2006

It doesn't matter now, come on get happy

Ra-amun posted:

How quick is everyone getting to blue science production? I have a fifteen hour save that I stopped playing with mostly the power armor / purple science stuff left to research but I like to run around and watch my factory do its thing.

Sometimes I won't have anything researching either while I try to figure out a way for my factory to look as aesthetically pleasing as possible. There was a big gap of time for me after green science where I didn't do much with oil while I was trying to set up a nice looking refinery setup.

I usually try to get to blue science production before I need more than 12 steam engines' worth of power (the most steam power I usually let myself use in any one game before moving to solar), that way when I start ramping up the pollution with extra factories and miners I'll have enough upgrades to make large biters manageable. You can get pretty far without purple science, but blue science takes the big biter nests from being impossible to modestly difficult with only a handful of techs.

The other thing is that once you start polluting hardcore, biter bases will not just grow, but will start spawning in already-explored ares. I don't usually use radar, so it's a nasty shock to drive over an area that you haven't visited in 5-6 hours only to find a 20-spawner nest in the way of your planned expansion. It's much less nasty when you have piercing shells and a combat shotgun.

escalator dropdown
Jan 24, 2007

Like all good stories, the second act begins with a call to action and the building of a robot.



This game is super fun, and really scratches that weirdo logistics balancing itch like Anno, Banished, etc.

About to finish up a sandbox game for the first time. Some of these factories posted make me realize just what a complete clusterfuck mine is. Production over about 2 screens fully zoomed out, various chunks built and rebuilt, a rats nest of belts and underground belts and splitters and pipes, and then logistics robots everywhere (will probably hit 1000 of them before I finish). Almost everything equipped with double Efficiency 2 modules, except a few strategically equipped with Speed 2s or Productivity 2s instead. A solar and accumulator farm that fills up an entire zoomed out screen on its own. Something like 30 oil wells tapped.

I'm a baby who just wants to build Rube Goldbergian factories, so I'm playing on peaceful mode and with the Advanced Equipment mod linked a few pages back. (Though frankly I have only gone halfway up into the Advanced Equipment -- a vanilla power armor setup like the ones posted by Breetai or Filthy Monkey are more than sufficient to Rambo biter nests.) I'll probably take a break for awhile, but I definitely plan to come back to it and play again without the peaceful mode / Advanced Equipment mod now that I've got a handle on how the tech tree and factory logistics develop and on strategies for attacking biter nests.

Fujoshisaur
Sep 5, 2006

It doesn't matter now, come on get happy

I think you'll really enjoy the game with peaceful mode off. The logistics game is incredibly fun, but there's something deeply satisfying at having a constant threat that is proportional to your progress, capable of easily destroying your entire base if you're unprepared, and easily contained with the right defenses and preparation. I never liked the combat in Anno games, but this seems completely different from that. Anno's combat feels perfunctory - something they added because hey, RTS games all need combat.

Factorio's combat feels much more integral to the whole game - a kind of hubris check that stops you from growing too complacent. It's never aggressive and threatening in the same way that a true RTS AI is, but it's just enough that you can't ignore your defenses and leave a wing of your factory undefended once things really get going. Anno is still a great series, but it's never grabbed me in the same way as Factorio does. There's just something about the feeling of building a bubble of affluence and safety in a deeply hostile world that makes this game so rewarding.

I keep forgetting this game is still in alpha because I feel like this game is 100% for me. I played a lot of games that played at the outer edges like Dune 2, the SimCity series, the Anno Series, Minecraft, Stranded, UnReal World, but none of them hit is as squarely as this game does.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


Considering that working out how to build and supply stuff, is basically the entire point of the game, peaceful mode feels kind of hollow when you realize you've basically cut out a huge portion of your tech tree and potential products out of your game until you need purple science.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Offensive combat is a butt, you need artifacts to build power armor and you need power armor to really go spawner-hunting unless you get lucky with worm spawns. Worms are basically immune to all mortal weapons except laser turrets, and if you put off spawner hunting until late game, hand weapons have a really hard time overpowering spawns guarded by medium biters, and a heavy biter is death unless you have turrets to run to.

Defensive combat, though, is pretty great.

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



Prior to medium biters, you can take out small wormless nests with just a flamethrower and steel armor. If you do a couple of those though, mediums won't be far behind. Poison capsules are pretty good against worms early on. Distracter and destroyer capsules are both excellent, and it is very possible to clear out nests, including worms, with those two. Unless the nest is like 10+ spawners, in no way do you need to run to laser turrets. It works, but it isn't necessary.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


loving lol


I think I'm done with this game for a while simply because it's been all I've played and I don't want to burn out on it before the final version is released. That being said, I can't wait for the final version to refine the (few) rough edges. I only played with logistic/constructor robots after I had enough resources to build the rocket defense, but from my brief tinkering I figure that next time I play the ability to just whack down entire base elements at will is going to be pivotal to developing exponential growth.

Optiquest
Feb 8, 2004



Take out worms with poison capsules and use combat shotgun with piercing shotgun rounds (these do like 150+ when upgraded).

Bettik
Jan 28, 2008

Space-age Rock Star


Hagop posted:

Sure after lunch I'll put together some section shots.



*edit:

Here is a standard belt cross settup.




And here it what it looks like when it is done



let me know if their is anything else you want to see.

Thanks that looks great. Seems like you've hit the mark on what you'd want to transport by belt as well, even once you have logistic drones up and running. I played my current game to around mid-way into blue science before I wanted to start from scratch on a concept like that - get all the basic goods and low tier intermediates on fast belts, have all slow end products karted around by an army of drones.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams


Just purchased this, after playing the demo. And holy poo poo am I happy that the training campaign is split into two campaigns, the first being the demo campaign, and the second campaign being the rest of the tutorial. I hate having to start campaigns or tutorials or whatever over when switching from demo to full game.

Thompsons
Aug 28, 2008

Ask me about onklunk extraction.

Can someone who's bought the tier-two preorder tell me what's in the scenario pack and if it's worth the extra 15 bucks?

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



It has a few gimmick challenges. One gives you some chests and a timer. You have to put so much of a stated resource in the chest before the timer expires. Another puzzle-like mode has you connecting chests. If money is tight, I would suggest just buying the base game. Chances are good that is what you are going to be playing 99% of the time anyway.

Just built rocket defense in my desert factory too. I was vacuuming down copper deposits at the end.

One easy mod with minimal impact I like is 90 degree inserters. I was wishing it was in the base game, and then I noticed somebody had already done it. You can instantly craft 90 degree versions of any of the inserters. If you pick them up, they revert back to their base type. Useful for cramming in factories.
http://www.factorioforums.com/forum...php?f=14&t=3622

I agree with the suggestion about not turning on peaceful mode too. Being attacked is part of the game. And is manageable so long as you pay attention to your defenses. Start making stone bricks early, build initial walls and gun towers, and prioritize laser towers.

I would also not suggest jacking up the richness to crazy levels. I did that when I started, and it is more interesting needing to actually go out and secure more resources. Jack up the richness and your initial deposits would probably last forever.

I am not sure how sold I am on trains. They are totally cool, but I feel like just belting in ore from a remote base takes a lot less effort.

One thing I do suggest is just turning all of your heavy oil into lubricant. You'll appreciate it if you ever go robot crazy, or if you like using express belts everywhere.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at May 20, 2014 around 08:33

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007

Wake up and
smell the murder.


The central belt method sure does look pretty, but some of the routing I had to do to get everything to fit was inducing.

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

Fallen Rib

Hagop posted:



Any one good with train logic? I would like to unfuck this situation using the rail signals. So that I don't have to rebuild anything, but I can't seem to figure the things out.


*edit: Now with travel directions.

I'd just get rid of the loops and make double ended trains vOv far more compact.

Edit: Unless you are making this layout to run multiple trains per line (can you even do that?)

drunkill fucked around with this message at May 20, 2014 around 10:12

Renaissance Robot
Oct 10, 2010

Bite my furry metal ass


That's what signals are for, yeah. It's basically an automatic blocking system. There's a wiki page describing how they work, but it's kind of a mess of

Hagop
May 14, 2012

First one out of the Ranger gets a prize!


drunkill posted:

I'd just get rid of the loops and make double ended trains vOv far more compact.

Edit: Unless you are making this layout to run multiple trains per line (can you even do that?)

Single heads also travel faster kinda I think. Train acceleration seems to have to do with the number of cars its towing so if you have a short route or one with lots of turns adding the second engine slows down round trip time with out increasing capacity.



Filthy Monkey posted:


I would also not suggest jacking up the richness to crazy levels. I did that when I started, and it is more interesting needing to actually go out and secure more resources. Jack up the richness and your initial deposits would probably last forever.

I have had a lot of fun and challenged using a max richness, max size, min frequency, one biome, and "only in start zone" water map setup. It makes it so unless you get lucky your going to have at least 4 highly spread out bases to defend. Roll a desert map and your going to have one hell of a fight for the whole game. Unless you chicken out and go hard green.

Caconym
Feb 12, 2013



Think I found the trigger for the infinite resources bug discussed a while back.

Copper and coal (at least in the plane mission) seems to spawn some tiles with "0" as the initial amount. And the check to remove the resource happens when the amount rolls over from 1 to 0 with no check for < 1.

Renaissance Robot
Oct 10, 2010

Bite my furry metal ass


That was it, yeah. I reported it in the forum a few days ago, it's fixed for the next update.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


How the heck are you supposed to use barrels? I've been trying to figure it out but it seems to escape me.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Deadmeat5150 posted:

How the heck are you supposed to use barrels? I've been trying to figure it out but it seems to escape me.

Pump oil into an assembler
Add barrels to assembler
Set assembler to "Fill barrel"
Take full barrels out of assembler
transport barrels to destination
Insert full barrels in another assembler
set this assembler to 'empty barrel'
Oil and empty barrels come out.

This (by default) only works with Crude Oil.

Hagop
May 14, 2012

First one out of the Ranger gets a prize!


Only works with crude oil with out mods I think.

Edit: ^^^ Apparently I need to learn to read.

Gotdammy
Feb 17, 2014


Evilreaver posted:

Pump oil into an assembler
Add barrels to assembler
Set assembler to "Fill barrel"
Take full barrels out of assembler
transport barrels to destination
Insert full barrels in another assembler
set this assembler to 'empty barrel'
Oil and empty barrels come out.

This (by default) only works with Crude Oil.

And is a ginormous waste of time when you could instead:

- Make a pile of underground pipes and like an electric pump or two.
- Place them.

Biters will happily ignore the power poles/pumps/bits of underground pipe sticking out and you won't have a logistics nightmare on your hands.

Which is kind of sad, really. There ought to be tanker cars for trains and forget barrels entirely.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


Thanks guys, this helps my massive factory a great deal.

EvilMike
Dec 6, 2004



Evilreaver posted:

Pump oil into an assembler
Add barrels to assembler
Set assembler to "Fill barrel"
Take full barrels out of assembler
transport barrels to destination
Insert full barrels in another assembler
set this assembler to 'empty barrel'
Oil and empty barrels come out.

This (by default) only works with Crude Oil.

Is there any reason to actually do this?

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


EvilMike posted:

Is there any reason to actually do this?

It lets you move oil from distant fields by train.

I mean, you CAN build pipes, but that's a lot of pipes.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

EvilMike posted:

Is there any reason to actually do this?

Not really, your factory must be a real clusterfuck if you can't make things work with underground pipes.

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013

Let's go explorin' little dude!


EvilMike posted:

Is there any reason to actually do this?

Using an imported phrase from Minecraft: Because You Can

Hagop
May 14, 2012

First one out of the Ranger gets a prize!


EvilMike posted:

Is there any reason to actually do this?

With crude no. Get one of the mods that lets you barrel finished products and then you can add the barrels to your main bust and just uncan what you need right by where you need it. Though even is only really useful for sulfuric acid. Which I think is the only liquid reagent used in more than one non-liquid recipe.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


EvilMike posted:

Is there any reason to actually do this?

Because moving things with trains is cool as heck

EvilMike
Dec 6, 2004



LordSaturn posted:

It lets you move oil from distant fields by train.

I mean, you CAN build pipes, but that's a lot of pipes.

Yeah, but the alternative would be a lot of barrels, assemblers, inserters, chests, railways, more assemblers, etc to your oil field. I don't know how it compares in terms of numbers, but it feels like a long pipeline would be more efficient and easier to set up. I guess trains are more fun though.

Renaissance Robot
Oct 10, 2010

Bite my furry metal ass


I was about to come in and be all about how obviously rail will be more material efficient over long distances, but it's actually not.

Material for one pair of underground pipes: 15 iron. Distance spanned: 11. Iron per square: 1.364
Material for two rail segments: 5.5 iron (and 1 stone). Distance spanned: 4. Iron per square: 1.375


That's before even accounting for the creation and running cost of locomotives, and the fact that overground pipes are even cheaper (1 iron/1 square).

Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at May 20, 2014 around 19:03

Hagop
May 14, 2012

First one out of the Ranger gets a prize!


EvilMike posted:

Yeah, but the alternative would be a lot of barrels, assemblers, inserters, chests, railways, more assemblers, etc to your oil field. I don't know how it compares in terms of numbers, but it feels like a long pipeline would be more efficient and easier to set up. I guess trains are more fun though.

Trains are really the best, or would be if only they could pull gun cars along with them.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008


Renaissance Robot posted:

I was about to come in and be all about how obviously rail will be more material efficient over long distances, but it's actually not.

Material for one pair of underground pipes: 15 iron. Distance spanned: 11. Iron per square: 1.364
Material for two rail segments: 5.5 iron (and 1 stone). Distance spanned: 4. Iron per square: 1.375


That's before even accounting for the creation and running cost of locomotives, and the fact that overground pipes are even cheaper (1 iron/1 square).

Trains will become worth it if you can bring back ores along with the oil.

Renaissance Robot
Oct 10, 2010

Bite my furry metal ass


Hmm, true that.


PS signals are a humongous pain in the rear end and really just loving awfully documented. I'm trying to nail down how they work so I can get the wiki edited with something that isn't a well-meaning but poorly worded electric train set analogy.

Mostly it's annoying because I can make them work, but I still don't get exactly why they work or why certain things are necessary to do, which makes the whole thing seem extremely capricious.

esquilax
Jan 3, 2003



You can also transport oil barrels in your inventory or using your car, in which case you don't need to build a rail network or long pipeline.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


EvilMike posted:

Yeah, but the alternative would be a lot of barrels, assemblers, inserters, chests, railways, more assemblers, etc to your oil field. I don't know how it compares in terms of numbers, but it feels like a long pipeline would be more efficient and easier to set up. I guess trains are more fun though.

Pretty sure you can reuse the barrels though so you could just repurpose an existing assembler for a run of, say, 500 barrels, put it back to what it was originally doing, and then that's all the barrels that particular train loop needs.

Caconym
Feb 12, 2013



esquilax posted:

You can also transport oil barrels in your inventory or using your car, in which case you don't need to build a rail network or long pipeline.

In the choice between manual transport and Rube Goldbergs fever dream Rube wins every time.

I figure tanker cars and a variety of different locomotives are a given in time. Nothing screams "placeholder" like a diesel locomotive burning coal.

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Badgerpoo
Oct 12, 2010


So I've played through the campaign and had a great time, time to play the sandbox!



I will never leave this planet island.

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