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Gwyneth Palpate
Jun 7, 2010

Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Supplying huge turret walls is a lot easier once you realize you can tile turret -> long-handle inserter -> turret -> long-handle inserter over and over to perfectly distribute ammo to turrets. With the long-handle inserters, the system even works if some of the turrets get destroyed.

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Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

Roflex posted:

Surrounding your entire base with wall is impractical on larger bases especially on railworlds. With an artillery outpost, you only have to defend that area, which is almost certainly a lot less resource (and setup) intensive than surrounding everything. Even encapsulating one outpost can take thousands of walls and hundreds of turrets, and if you're primarily using lasers the idle drain can become significant (creeping up on beacon usage). And supplying a base-surrounding wall of gun/flame turrets is similarly impractical.

The biggest advantage of artillery over just running around in PA2 and clearing by hand is that you've got better things to do than pest control, especially in singleplayer. As far as "complex supply train" goes, that's just a logistics problem, and a fun problem to solve at that.
Oh definitely, plop one of those turrets in your outposts without question if biters are strong enough to threaten your walls. Or you can an artillery train just do circuits on your outposts. I was just saying, an additional train track behind your turret wall of your main complex doesn't bring a lot of value to the table for the effort to set it up, since, well, you already have that wall there. And it doesn't do a ton on it's own AS a barrier because anything it hits is going to send masses of biters running directly into your base, so you need a wall of some sort.

Or maybe there's a defensive technique I'm not understanding? Do the biters not run to attack if they're far enough away or if the train moves on they just sort of mill around the tracks or something?

Bhodi fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2018 around 14:24

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

Filthy Monkey posted:

Okay, I think I am done obsessing over nuclear plants. This is my final one. I tweaked my previous non-moderated 12 reactor design enough that I think it is in a good stopping place. All the pumps help keep the heat exchangers wet, given the lengths involved. I feel like in the late game, I could just drop down another one of these whenever I want additional juice. At 12 reactors the average adjacency bonus is a quite good at 366.67%
https://imgur.com/uoFLZUE
https://pastebin.com/vavzhupk
All 16 hookups are right next to each other at the top, making for easy water hookup. Most of the big power plant designs I see require you to landfill out the middle of a lake, which is tedious and annoying given that bots can't do it. This design just requires that you edge a lake off enough to get the pumps in.

Power is truncated to the nearest GW, so to test performance I built two of these plants in creative mode and ran them for an hour. The pair showed a constant 3.5 GW, which means that each plant is individually at least 1.75 GW. Given that the theoretical maximum is 1.76 GW, I think they are on the money.

Moderated plants are fun at the 2 or 4 reactor level, but become kind of a pain for reactors larger than that. By that time you generally have a hojillion fuel anyway. Learning how to moderate plants was a fun way to learn about the circuit network though. I went from knowing nearly nothing to being able to set up timers and latches. I figure that is pretty good.
If you think people would use it, you should stick it into a book and add in a bunch of connector recipes as well because making pipes is tedious as hell - I really dig the angled pipe recipes in the one below. If you're looking for more work, did you integrate an integrated sub-setup that will keep the inserters and conbinators powered enough to insert more fuel? There was also a book I used to have but I deleted it(?) of an expandable setup that I really dug, with a series of blueprints starting with single plant going up to 8 that you could layer and build without having to do a rip-and-replace once you outgrow your current plant. I found that really helpful since you're often really limited on materials when you initially want to switch over to nuclear. Since you like fiddling with nuclear power, those are enhancement options. I honestly don't dig this sort of thing so I'm glad I can piggyback off people like you.

This was a book I pulled off of factorioprints or maybe reddit? I forget, but it has a 4 and 10 reactor setup showing the sub-powergrid but more importantly has all those delicious pipe connectors.
https://pastebin.com/WM2FvWCt

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

I got one from factorioprints called Chernobyl Diaries I think, it has a couple configurations and has circuit logic to stop feeding until steam drops low enough. It also has pipe connector blueprints too

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

Bhodi posted:

Oh definitely, plop one of those turrets in your outposts without question if biters are strong enough to threaten your walls. Or you can an artillery train just do circuits on your outposts. I was just saying, an additional train track behind your turret wall of your main complex doesn't bring a lot of value to the table for the effort to set it up, since, well, you already have that wall there. And it doesn't do a ton on it's own AS a barrier because anything it hits is going to send masses of biters running directly into your base, so you need a wall of some sort.

Or maybe there's a defensive technique I'm not understanding? Do the biters not run to attack if they're far enough away or if the train moves on they just sort of mill around the tracks or something?

What you're missing is that it acts like a big giant taunt flag, so you only need to heavily defend the artillery instead of having to heavily defend the entire outside of your base.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

College Slice

Yeah, rather than a wall that has to be able to withstand an attack at any point you know you just have to defend the train stop.

So I have a perimeter train, which is a single track and no power poles. Very resource cheep. And you might not even need walls at the train stops if you have uranium ammo and bullet damage buffs. And I toss down radars with solar panels.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007


Dancing around it but also if you have artillery coverage of your pollution cloud the only attacks will be on the artillery.

Then the end game cadence is you use nukes to clear out new land and artillery to secure it efficiently without running into the trap that perimeter length increases outlandishly with increased area.

Arguably use artillery offensively even with nukes too because you could just slam a blueprint down instead of riding out to take care of business but hey nuking bugs is occasionally a leisure activity.

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

super fart shooter posted:

Compression is back baby! and its better than ever

gently caress yes! I'd managed to recreate most of my blueprints with the merge-only approach but there are still some spots I would prefer this approach. Way cheaper smelters early game, too!

boo_radley
Dec 30, 2005

Politeness costs nothing

is there a mod that will put blueprint books in books? I'm getting to the point where I have 10 or so of them and I want my space back

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



Bhodi posted:

If you think people would use it, you should stick it into a book and add in a bunch of connector recipes as well because making pipes is tedious as hell - I really dig the angled pipe recipes in the one below. If you're looking for more work, did you integrate an integrated sub-setup that will keep the inserters and conbinators powered enough to insert more fuel?
I have done some moderated plants. It has helped me learn the circuit network pretty effectively.

The separate power grid you are talking about (usually consisting of a few solar panels and accumulators) is mainly used to stop brownouts from causing a negative feedback loop. It is useful if your moderation scheme is timer based. Your circuit running more slowly means your timer runs more slowly. That means the next set of fuel cells is inserted late, which means further brownouts, which makes your timer run even slower, and so on.

A separate power grid can also be useful if the design has a lot of pumps, for the same reason. Pumps not getting enough power chokes the water/steam, which results in even less power, and so on.

A moderation scheme based around counting output fuel cells doesn't really need a separate power grid. Sure, the circuit and inserter arm runs a little slower, but the actual power difference will be pretty minimal. You might insert a second late, compared to the timer based setup inserting REALLY late.

The timer setup is a little more fragile than counting, given that it requires a separate power grid. It does let you avoid the dry time that purely counting based setups have though. With fast inserters, better counting setups can minimize dry time to one turn of an inserter arm, which is about half a second. Given that a full burn is 200s, that means you are operating for 200s every 200.5s, so your maximum run time will be 99.75%. A timer setup can make the decision to load right before the previous fuel cells come out, resulting in a 100% run time.

The other consideration with moderation schemes is syncing. Both timer and counting based approaches can be made to sync the reactors with appropriate circuitry. Syncing with counting is particularly easy if you use something like secondary steel chest storage for spent fuel cells. The chest method adds an extra inserter arm rotation of dry time, but it removes the need for a counter and a latch. It is probably the easiest synced moderation method to understand and implement. If you want to start building your own moderated plant and aren't a circuit expert, that is where I would suggest starting.

Bhodi posted:

There was also a book I used to have but I deleted it(?) of an expandable setup that I really dug, with a series of blueprints starting with single plant going up to 8 that you could layer and build without having to do a rip-and-replace once you outgrow your current plant. I found that really helpful since you're often really limited on materials when you initially want to switch over to nuclear.
I've seen some growable plant designs on factorioprints, like this one.
https://factorioprints.com/view/-L2Vbi3Ft814dlqBiGXe

The one design choice I tend to like on my plants is single-sided hookup. I dislike needing to landfill out the middle of a lake to lay one down, given that robots can't do it. Player time is valuable. I feel like just needing to edge a lake off is much less painful.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2018 around 17:43

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

boo_radley posted:

is there a mod that will put blueprint books in books? I'm getting to the point where I have 10 or so of them and I want my space back

Best you can get, as far as I know, is a mod that will let you set the color of books/prints.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/colored-blueprints-redux

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Artillery Outpost defense:
  • Small Brain: Laser Turrets
  • Big Brain: Flame Turrets (train in oil)
  • Planet Brain: Gun Turrets (train in ammo)
  • Galaxy Brain: Land Mines (train in more mines)
  • Universe Brain: Atomic Rockets (using wire conditions attached to accumulators attached to laser turrets, detect when biters are approaching: summon the player's train to the outpost so you can nuke them personally)

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

College Slice

The answer is always more trains

chairface
Oct 28, 2007
No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Having just tried out the artillery trains, A++ would recommend. Yeah they should probably be lower in the tech tree, particularly compared to atomics, but it's hard to compete with "Thomas was cross indeed, and he brought his Smith & Wesson to teach some folks a lesson!"

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Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

A total basshole


chairface posted:

Having just tried out the artillery trains, A++ would recommend. Yeah they should probably be lower in the tech tree, particularly compared to atomics, but it's hard to compete with "Thomas was cross indeed, and he brought his Smith & Wesson to teach some folks a lesson!"

Haha fantastic.


Evilreaver posted:

Artillery Outpost defense:
  • Small Brain: Laser Turrets
  • Big Brain: Flame Turrets (train in oil)
  • Planet Brain: Gun Turrets (train in ammo)
  • Galaxy Brain: Land Mines (train in more mines)
  • Universe Brain: Atomic Rockets (using wire conditions attached to accumulators attached to laser turrets, detect when biters are approaching: summon the player's train to the outpost so you can nuke them personally)

Aren't flame turrets kind of useless? Don't the bugs outrange them so they get destroyed?

Anyway, is there a way to auto-place minefields with construction bots? Or is it just a matter of making a blueprint and just plopping down some fields?

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