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necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Yeah I always put oil on high frequency, size and yield now. They're still pretty spread out but at least they're not a single low yield slick anymore.

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jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

I made the mistake of playing this game at about 9PM and glancing at the clock one time later when it was 3. Terrible idea.

As far as the automation of research vials go, I really don't know how to effectively make tier 3 vials. I end up just putting a fuckload of materials into a box and then making them crank out the circuits, engines, and whatever and then putting them in the boxes that feed my labs.

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Tier 3 is definitely a leap in inputs. You need like twice as many vial assemblers as the previous vials to match pace, and it's the first one with 3 inputs. Military science is the same. Turrets and electric drills are really iron hungry.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

It's also upsetting that electric furnaces are Tier 3. They should definitely be Tier 2, because it makes your life a whole, whole lot easier.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

I really dislike the higher tier research, to the point I just google for a blueprint and feed it whatever resources it needs.

I know why they set it up the way they did, taming chaos is the whole point of the game, but all the dependencies are too much for my pea brain to tame.

Jamsque
May 31, 2009


jokes posted:

It's also upsetting that electric furnaces are Tier 3. They should definitely be Tier 2, because it makes your life a whole, whole lot easier.

Electric Furnaces in the early/mid game are a trap! They smelt at the same speed as steel furnaces while taking up more space, costing more materials to manufacture, and most importantly using FAR more coal to operate (assuming coal power is your main method of generating electricity, which it almost certainly is in the early/mid game). The only advantages to electric furnaces are that they have slots for modules and are marginally simpler to set up because they don't require coal.

tl;dr don't bother with electric furnaces until you have good nuclear power going

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

Electric furnaces let you smelt without long inserters or convoluted subterranean belt rigs. They also let you set up smelting at remote deposits without having to get coal to the site.

If you got a glut of electricity I see no reason to not use them asap. They aren't as efficient but they are way more convenient.

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

If your primary power source is coal and your power surplus is not nearly as big as you think (which let's be honest: first time playing it won't be) then powered furnaces are a great way to grind your base to a halt.

If you've started making solar farms, or have dipped your toe into nuclear at all: gently caress yeah powered furnaces!

Jamsque
May 31, 2009


xzzy posted:

Electric furnaces let you smelt without long inserters or convoluted subterranean belt rigs.

I take your other point but this is crazy, you can easily use exactly one length of underground belt and zero long inserters:

Slime
Jan 3, 2007


Jamsque posted:

Electric Furnaces in the early/mid game are a trap! They smelt at the same speed as steel furnaces while taking up more space, costing more materials to manufacture, and most importantly using FAR more coal to operate (assuming coal power is your main method of generating electricity, which it almost certainly is in the early/mid game). The only advantages to electric furnaces are that they have slots for modules and are marginally simpler to set up because they don't require coal.

tl;dr don't bother with electric furnaces until you have good nuclear power going

Electric smelters simplify logistics and the space factor honestly isn't a problem if you're using them to smelt ore at remote outposts. You've got essentially infinite space out there, you don't need to cram them in somewhere tiny.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



I just use GotLag's Electric Furnaces mod which gives you electric stone and steel furnaces. Sure they're inefficient, but are we here to save coal or are we here to pave the world?

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted


Soiled Meat

Has anyone tried this mod yet?

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/logicarts

Looks kind of fun but I've not gotten around to having a go.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011


Early I use electric furnaces for products where a small number of plates are required, but the product isn't final. Namely I use it for batteries and (sulpher? is that what requires iron plates?) which makes stuff smoother as I usually setup my oil near the initial belts for copper/iron.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Breetai posted:

Has anyone had issues with generating maps with zero loving oil? I'm about 3 hours into a railworld map and there is a single 85% yeild oil patch within 5 solid minutes walk of my base. I may need to restart as a result.

That's what coal liqiufication is for.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Have I whined about the Cubs yet ITT? If not press F5
The Cubs are the worst team in baseball and Joe Maddon should be fired and furthermore,


Alright, I'm finally going to do it and actually try out nuclear power. Several games in a row now I've gotten to the point where I have the tech, but then looked at the complexity and thought "well yeah or I could just throw up dozens of solar block blueprints and call it a day" but I'm doing it this time, dammit. Is the tutorial on the wiki still mostly accurate? It doesn't mention anything about heat pipe complexity and I have vague memories of them being a pain in the rear end to set up properly.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Sydin posted:

Alright, I'm finally going to do it and actually try out nuclear power. Several games in a row now I've gotten to the point where I have the tech, but then looked at the complexity and thought "well yeah or I could just throw up dozens of solar block blueprints and call it a day" but I'm doing it this time, dammit. Is the tutorial on the wiki still mostly accurate? It doesn't mention anything about heat pipe complexity and I have vague memories of them being a pain in the rear end to set up properly.

It's only a pain in the area sense given that it's limited because of how heat works. It dissipates if you try to pipe it too far so you can't just pipe it as long as you need to get it to the exchangers. Beyond that the steam is just steam but hotter than boiler steam that goes to a different building.

The effective limit is like 20 or 30 pipe long exchangers so it isn't super mega tight. Other than that far as I know the numbers never changed.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

Sydin posted:

Alright, I'm finally going to do it and actually try out nuclear power. Several games in a row now I've gotten to the point where I have the tech, but then looked at the complexity and thought "well yeah or I could just throw up dozens of solar block blueprints and call it a day" but I'm doing it this time, dammit. Is the tutorial on the wiki still mostly accurate? It doesn't mention anything about heat pipe complexity and I have vague memories of them being a pain in the rear end to set up properly.

Do the tutorial on the factorio wiki, start with a two reactor setup.

https://wiki.factorio.com/Tutorial:Nuclear_power

There's a table in there that tells you exactly how much of everything you need (exchangers/turbines) for a given number of reactors so the only way it could be easier is if you copied a blueprint from someone (don't do that, build at least one reactor yourself so you can learn how they work).

Ceyton
Oct 9, 2004

YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!
YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!
YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!
YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!
YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!


Breetai posted:

Has anyone had issues with generating maps with zero loving oil? I'm about 3 hours into a railworld map and there is a single 85% yeild oil patch within 5 solid minutes walk of my base. I may need to restart as a result.

Yeah, I had to abandon an incredibly cool map because there was no oil whatsoever within ~5 minimap lengths of my base, and by then the biters were so thick that I just gave up. Map preview is a loving godsend.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

That's what coal liqiufication is for.

Nah, coal liquefaction is for when you need a small amount of oil (e.g., to make sulfuric acid for uranium mining) and there's coal but no wells nearby. It's only about half as efficient as basic oil processing, so trying to use it as a primary source is going to cause a lot of aggravation (believe me, I've tried).

Ratzap posted:

Has anyone tried this mod yet?

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/logicarts

Looks kind of fun but I've not gotten around to having a go.

I've actually been waiting for something like this! Looks a bit half-baked, but hopefully the dev will continue to work on it.

Ceyton fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2018 around 20:58

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Ceyton posted:

Nah, coal liquefaction is for when you need a small amount of oil (e.g., to make sulfuric acid for uranium mining) and there's coal but no wells nearby. It's only about half as efficient as basic oil processing, so trying to use it as a primary source is going to cause a lot of aggravation (believe me, I've tried).

Not to mention you need oil to research this first. A single 85% patch is going to make that annoying as hell.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Have I whined about the Cubs yet ITT? If not press F5
The Cubs are the worst team in baseball and Joe Maddon should be fired and furthermore,


xzzy posted:

Do the tutorial on the factorio wiki, start with a two reactor setup.

https://wiki.factorio.com/Tutorial:Nuclear_power

There's a table in there that tells you exactly how much of everything you need (exchangers/turbines) for a given number of reactors so the only way it could be easier is if you copied a blueprint from someone (don't do that, build at least one reactor yourself so you can learn how they work).

Yeah that's the tutorial I was referring to. I'll give it a whirl, thanks. I found a patch of 6M iron ore and have grand designs for it that involves a sea of electric furnaces, and I'm not sure I want to waste the time and resources that would be required to defend the massive plot of land I'd need for the requisite solar farm.

Nuclear power is an always on affair, correct? What's the general logic network method used to make sure reactors aren't being fueled when power demand is being covered already?

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

There are schemes out there to shut off nuclear reactors when power isn't needed, the basic scheme is to pump steam into an array of fluid tanks and when the steam gets low, fire the reactors back up.

But in practice for "my first reactor" type setups you'll find it's not necessary. Four centrifuges will produce enough U-238 to keep two reactors running 100% of the time (not sure what the actual ratio is, I eyeball everything).

Once you get over four reactors there may be some justification for implementing an on-demand scheme but it depends on how obsessive you are towards perfect efficiency or how rare ore patches are.

Roflex
Jan 13, 2007


I find coal liquefaction handy for setting up rocket/nuclear fuel for trains since there's more light>solid and heavy>light>solid (and therefore less "waste" gas that you have to send elsewhere or convert to solid inefficiently) so you can make a more self-contained facility for producing that stuff. (Rocket fuel for rockets I prefer to use regular crude oil.)

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted


Soiled Meat

Ceyton posted:

I've actually been waiting for something like this! Looks a bit half-baked, but hopefully the dev will continue to work on it.

Yeah it's a pretty new mod but it looks nifty if he keeps going. Early on enough in the research tree that it could actually be useful.

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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Comedy option: is there a console command that could give me coal liquification so I can avoid researching it on one patch?

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