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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Repeatable techs can quickly turn your factories into very weird looking things compared to how you got to a rocket launch so its technically a full fledged phase of the game but I've never had the hook set to continue that direction.

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Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


zedprime posted:

Repeatable techs can quickly turn your factories into very weird looking things compared to how you got to a rocket launch so its technically a full fledged phase of the game but I've never had the hook set to continue that direction.

I was planning on doing a 1K science megabase in my current save, but I feel no motivation to do it now.

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



Captain Invictus posted:

I kinda wanna continue on the existing map for a bit, then start a new one with much more dangerous biters. I assume past the rocket launch the only thing to do is repeatable techs, right? Nothing else opens up?

The main goal of the endgame is ramping up production as much as you can. Launching the next 100 rockets is a much different challege/experience compared to launching your first, but there's no additional "content" beyond the spider bot.

Slung Blade
Jul 10, 2002

IN STEEL WE TRUST



Well I mean, there is content in the sense that cleansing the planet with massed artillery is content worth doing. Taking control of ever more territory and the ever richer resources within.

I find that more fun than the stuff leading up to my first launch, personally. I accept that I am weird.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

I started a new game with a bit higher difficulty. this is the closest nest to my starting location.



I have realized something. there's zero way for me to actually attack this base in any way whatsoever until I get rockets. why isn't there some kind of grenade launcher you can craft on the way to rockets?

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






Captain Invictus posted:

I started a new game with a bit higher difficulty. this is the closest nest to my starting location.



I have realized something. there's zero way for me to actually attack this base in any way whatsoever until I get rockets. why isn't there some kind of grenade launcher you can craft on the way to rockets?

Chuck grenades at it as you zoom past in a car. Or build a tank. I don't think I've ever built rockets before the spidertron came out.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Yeah, anything with small worms only is very doable in a car, especially with grenades.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

Defender capsules are also incredibly strong at that point.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Alright, I never tried using defender capsules, I go for those next. The base spawns like 20 Big Biters/Spitters every spawning cycle and it's adjacent to two other bases who often trigger if I get too close to the first base too, so it's a massive clusterfuck that I don't know if a car could handle.

I basically went to the new game options and cranked everything up two clicks/rolls of the mousewheel. I think I really messed up on one of them, the pollution absorption, since they were already spawning big biters for a while when I researched AP ammo but I'd never attacked any of their bases.

Expecting Behemoths any day now.

I'm under some pressure to advance on the base because that's an 8.3 million iron deposit they're next to and there's not a single other iron deposit in the area that doesn't have a similarly-sized base on top of it, and the starting area deposit is down to 700k already, so if I run out I'm boned.

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 01:17 on May 13, 2021

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Drive in circles around the base hurling grenades, you'll kill it eventually. If you're getting killed doing that I would do what you've already done which is make pillboxes to take some of the heat off me and give me a place to go if I gently caress up and get hit. Option B is bootstrap 350 blue science vials and get a tank.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012


You can get like 15 defenders at once if you're at the point where youre pumping out nades, and they're pretty good if you have the first couple damage and attack speed upgrades. Grenades are probably better and faster still, but defenders have more range and save brain-cycles for juking acid spit

Olesh
Aug 4, 2008

Why did the circus close?

A long, chilling list of animal rights violations.

Larry Parrish posted:

You can get like 15 defenders at once if you're at the point where youre pumping out nades, and they're pretty good if you have the first couple damage and attack speed upgrades. Grenades are probably better and faster still, but defenders have more range and save brain-cycles for juking acid spit

Defenders are seriously underrated as an early-mid game tool. I feel like this is in part because getting meaningful use out of defenders (and the later upgraded combat robots) can't be accomplished at the scale manual crafting permits, and setting up dedicated automation to churn out defender bots (not to mention spending the research required to acquire and upgrade them) more or less has to be done proactively, or at least when you're in a situation where you have enough breathing room to accomplish this - and it's possible to be in a situation where you're scrambling just to keep the base from being overrun.

Also, they're consumables, and some people hate relying on consumables. But they bridge a combat gap before you get access to other tools, allowing you to take out bases with worms in a straight up fight, and remain useful even once you get access to tanks and power armor, since you can deploy capsules while using vehicles. A handful of Defenders does a great job mowing down the hordes of biters chasing you around while you focus on the more dangerous threats, which also is a key part of their utility - you don't have to really focus on what the Defenders are doing, you just deploy them and they'll shoot everything nearby, allowing you to focus your attention on dodging or driving or whatever.

Canuckistan
Jan 14, 2004

I'm the greatest thing since World War III.







Soiled Meat

I knew I should have unsubbed from this thread. I just got caught up and now I'm going to start a 'There is no Spoon' run. I think I'll follow a guide but not use blueprints.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011


Canuckistan posted:

I knew I should have unsubbed from this thread. I just got caught up and now I'm going to start a 'There is no Spoon' run. I think I'll follow a guide but not use blueprints.

I just used a list someone made of the techs required and when they had them researched, roughly. I saved every hour of playtime and had to re-do the last hour because I didnít scale one of the rocket part productions correctly and ran out of time at 98% rocket complete. Finished with ~30 minutes left the second time & the run was pretty sloppy. The biggest thing is to be thinking two steps ahead and crafting for that, so that once you get to needing oil refineries you already have them crafted, along with all the pipeline you could dream of.

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


I accidentally did There Is No Spoon twice, because I hosed up the map gen settings on the first and disabled the achievement. Both runs were a relatively stress free 7ish hours, and I made basic but compact yellow belt bus factories both times because they're easy to do.

The main thing to make it simple is to up resource patch size, richness and starting area size. Turn off pollution, but leave biter base size alone since tweaking that will in fact disable the achievement. With max starting area biters will be very far away and I did not see a single biter or fire a single bullet on my successful run, which of course also got me the Raining Bullets achievement.

You don't really need a guide or a very detailed plan, although you should know what stuff goes into research and rockets so you can produce the right things. Find a nice open starting seed with lots of space and ores, make things before you need them and don't research things you don't need (trains, logibots, power that isn't coal, military, power armor, etc). The time will sort itself as long as you don't do fancy designs and don't stop building.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

uPen posted:

Drive in circles around the base hurling grenades, you'll kill it eventually. If you're getting killed doing that I would do what you've already done which is make pillboxes to take some of the heat off me and give me a place to go if I gently caress up and get hit. Option B is bootstrap 350 blue science vials and get a tank.
after dying roughly a hundred times trying to drive around all of this, progress has been made



whole lotta deaths to accidentally clipping a big biter/spitter with my car and getting stopped dead in my tracks, where literally 200 biters descended upon me en masse from 3 huge bases

I'll give it this, at this level it's quite a bit more intense than my first (real) game

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


One cheesy way to deal with worms is to just rapidly oscillate between moving left and right. They lead their shots according to your velocity when they fire, so if you're constantly swapping direction they'll just shoot wide every time. Meanwhile you throw a couple hundred grenades at the base and kill everything that spawns before it gets to you. There are good reasons why the speedrunners take the time and resources to set up some 5-10 grenade factories. Beyond that, defender capsules are great value at green science: they do something like 130 shots at 8 damage if they're constantly active, compared to the 50ish shots at 10 damage you or a turret would get for the same investment, and throwing out a capsule takes a lot less time than 50 shots.

At blue science flamethrowers and landmines are defensively excellent, they let you hold back behemoths forever at 100% evolution if you really want. The tank with explosive ammo is generally good for clearing remote bases, but doesn't do great at high evolution. On the cheese side, having construction bots drop landmines on bases is a very effective thing you can do.

At yellow/purple science you have a ton of options. Artillery lets you more or less passively clear a large zone around your base; Spidertrons are a little fiddly but can be remote controlled to rocket through pretty much anything; and destroyer capsules, a tank with explosive uranium ammo or nukes all let you personally clear bases with relative ease.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

I'm not even to blue science researchable yet, I have to take these bases out or else I'll be boned when my only iron well runs dry as they're sitting on top of the only one that isn't surrounded by similar-sized or larger bases. But I've somewhat managed to beat back the tide for the moment, allowing me to bolster defenses elsewhere so I don't need to worry about my southwestern front at all.

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"



When it comes to defences, I feel the repertoire in the base game is slim, so why not just add new turrets and diversify!?

(gun turrets, laser turrets, rocket turrets, mortar turrets, cannon turrets and minigun turrets!)

Only registered members can see post attachments!

bubbapook
Jan 14, 2008



Speaking of defenses......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQd1qXL5UEY

It may be 17 mins long, but it is 1000% worth it.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

lol, I just got my whole refinery and red circuit production going, about to start blue science, and ready to go take on the rest of the bases near that iron patch as I'm dropping down to 300k iron in my starting location.



hello, friend. I'm guessing this is a taste of what a death world is like, with behemoths showing up absurdly early?

edit: lmao every half dozen spawners I kill increases the behemoth chance by 1%. oh boy

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 16, 2021

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Turning up the pollution and time factors is probably not helping at all. Hit tilde and run the /evolution command to see what it's at and it will also show what the source of the increase is (by way of ratio across all three sources).

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Turning all the evolution factors up results in severely geometric responses. I think even deathworld has normal or slightly downtuned evolution factors to account for your pollution getting eaten very fast and you destroying lots of nests as you go.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES




Exciting Lemon

In standard programmer fashion the sliders give you full control with no concept of what youíre doing.

Itís not a easy medium hard slider. There is a narrow island of difficulty, and on one side a small lake of never seeing buyers, and opposite and endless sea of soft lock or full wipe impossible difficulties

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Yup. The time one can be brutal, too: it is constantly ticking up evolution regardless of what you do to limit the other factors.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES




Exciting Lemon

I played one game with the sliders pretty much randomized and soft locked by running out of starting resources without being able to break through because the bases spread too fast and destroying them sped evolution to behemoths at an insane rate thanks to the multiplier.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Luckily I have access to two sizeable copper and iron deposits if I just destroy these nearby megabases, and I already early on secured my southwestern flank so that the two oil fields and stone/coal deposits down south are accessible at any point. So if nothing else I can hunker down once I've dealt with these until I'm ready to expand again, since my starting iron deposit was 1.1mil and this nearby one is 8.3, and the next closest one is 11.8.

Thanks to building rockets, I can now kill these massive nearby bases one spawner at a time, retreat to my pillbox, target behemoths as the horde descends, and then go and attack another couple spawners. The only problem is ammo for the gun turrets, but eh, it's still working. The behemoth percentage is up to 9% already, so yeah, this'll probably get real ugly real fast if I don't finish clearing them out soon. Just motivation, is all!

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.




I've become pretty partial to Railworld explicitly because it's an "achievement-legal" way to deal with biters while still not having them spread too much. Each time you clear out a base it's a genuine accomplishment that doesn't get rolled back.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

the battlefield is littered with the corpses of both me and my enemies, but the iron is secured as my initial mine rapidly dwindles below 200k! no softlock!



and the evolution factors:


I accidentally discovered a way to cheese biters insanely hard when I was trying to eat a fish and instead selected walls, and spammed them as I flailed around aiming rockets, which threw wall chunks everywhere like silly string and made the behemoths unable to instantly murder me

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 00:45 on May 17, 2021

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!


Captain Invictus posted:

Luckily I have access to two sizeable copper and iron deposits if I just destroy these nearby megabases, and I already early on secured my southwestern flank so that the two oil fields and stone/coal deposits down south are accessible at any point. So if nothing else I can hunker down once I've dealt with these until I'm ready to expand again, since my starting iron deposit was 1.1mil and this nearby one is 8.3, and the next closest one is 11.8.

You would not believe how much easier holding a defensive position is when there are a couple (or a solid wall) of flamethrower turrets in the mix. I don't recall what the actual mitigation formulas are, but either burning damage isn't affected by any kind of mitigation, or is affected the least by it. This means that you get more average damage to Behemoth class biters per density unit of defensive structure out of fire.

I find that 3-turret walled fortlets with ammo fed out of a box can be easily doubled, then have a layer with 1-3 flame turrets and their walls fed by underground pipelines to create cells within the defensive line which biters then have to chew their way out of once they've eaten one, and then this pattern easily tiled with the inner side of the fortlets' walls and their ammo boxes ripped out, replacing these boxes with splitters while a line of belts runs down the inner walls' old course.

A similar conceptual approach to your own techniques and preferences (capable early-game designs which can easily be refitted at need into a larger array, with ammunition delivered) ought to pay off, if my experience is at all related

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

yeah, I need to do flamethrower turrets at some point. although I'm just about to get laser turrets, and can just refocus my weapon production into those instead, it worked super well for my last game to have 2x thick layers of laser turrets all along my defensive lines with solar panel fields and accumulators anywhere I could cram them, then I could just forget about them altogether/link them up to my main grid for extra power supply. about to start in on uranium harvesting too, luckily have one field of a million ore nearby so I can eventually get to uranium ammo. but I think I've got like 15 hours into this run and already am about to start on purple science juice, whereas my previous run that took...probably four times that long to get there. It really is true that you only get one blind run. I still haven't looked up any guides or buses or anything but just knowing the processes has allowed me to speed through the early game fast enough to not get overwhelmed by the behemoth rush(which is up to 18% now btw, lol)

Wallrod
Sep 27, 2004
Stupid Baby Picture

The burning ground effect from flame turrets also does the bulk of the damage IIRC, so while they're not a huuuge benefit for small groups that barely survive in turret range, it's extremely efficient for the inevitable large groups, especially if you're able to funnel them into a narrow profile first.

IllustriousChen
Feb 16, 2012


Could anyone recommend some mods to me?

I am looking to add a bit more to the game in terms of complexity, such as ore crushers and new ores, but without the extra seven levels of circuits that full Angel/Bob's adds.

Is there any mid point between vanilla and Angel/Bob's that people like?

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010



IllustriousChen posted:

Could anyone recommend some mods to me?

I am looking to add a bit more to the game in terms of complexity, such as ore crushers and new ores, but without the extra seven levels of circuits that full Angel/Bob's adds.

Is there any mid point between vanilla and Angel/Bob's that people like?

Krastorio 2 is probably the best "Factorio, but more" mod pack that doesn't go too crazy with complexity

Chadzok
Apr 25, 2002



I think Krastorio 2 is a good step up from Vanilla. Adds another 20-40 hours, nothing hugely complicated, but everything it adds is different enough to feel fresh. From memory it only adds a few new resources (rare metals, mineral water and the glowy spacey one?) but it also has an optional mid-to-late-game ore enrichment process which is fun to work in. The sprites are all pretty true to the original too. Just felt like a good expansion pack to me.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Krastorio is what I was eyeing as well. Complete enough on its own I don't need to/shouldn't seek out more on top of that (besides maybe cosmetic stuff & something like LTN to avoid what a pain my vanilla logistics trains were)?

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



Has there been any hint of what the official expansion will be about yet?

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010



SkyeAuroline posted:

Krastorio is what I was eyeing as well. Complete enough on its own I don't need to/shouldn't seek out more on top of that (besides maybe cosmetic stuff & something like LTN to avoid what a pain my vanilla logistics trains were)?

You peobably want Factory Planner or Helmod to plan stuff, because the usual calculator sites don't work, obviously.

Krastorio also has quite a few intermediate materials and making a bus for all of that is no fun, so LTN (and/or Transport drones, which does essentially the same thing but on a smaller scale) helps a lot with logistics.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Tamba posted:

You peobably want Factory Planner or Helmod to plan stuff, because the usual calculator sites don't work, obviously.

Krastorio also has quite a few intermediate materials and making a bus for all of that is no fun, so LTN (and/or Transport drones, which does essentially the same thing but on a smaller scale) helps a lot with logistics.

I don't plan ratios anyway
Good to know LTN will still do work.

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gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


Tamba posted:

***
Krastorio also has quite a few intermediate materials and making a bus for all of that is no fun, so LTN (and/or Transport drones, which does essentially the same thing but on a smaller scale) helps a lot with logistics.

Krasterio2 essentially adds one more item to every recipe, but the raw material inputs are pretty well balanced. This ends up making the it less of a "logistics /scaling" challenge (more copper!) and more of an "assembly line design" challenge as compared to vanilla, imho.

e.g., I think I finished it with only 2 (albeit beaconed) iron smelters arrays and no steel arrays (vs. build on site)

gaj70 fucked around with this message at 15:15 on May 21, 2021

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