Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Slum Loser
May 6, 2011


I got into Krastorio 2 recently and it's really good and 'complete' so far. More complex recipes, lots of intermediates, and more management overall to build and power the cool stuff. I've managed so far with vanilla trains and haven't even botted up yet. Krastorio adds so many items the menu gets a little crazy (it took me 5 minutes to filter rare metals because I couldn't find them among the 50+ other icons), but it's worth it and makes vanilla highly refreshing by comparison.

Plus I learned that I'll probably never be interested in the more eccentric/detailed mods, Krastorio 2 is a good amount of plate spinning for me. I was thinking I'd try out Space Exploration but probably will pass on that unless I get really desperate.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Roll Fizzlebeef
Sep 9, 2003




I am having a great time with a lazy bastard run. I have been extensively using trains and that is my favorite part. I just finished a factory to make power armor, spidertrons, ammo and gear. I made another big factory that supplies a 16 car artillery train. I am 90 hours in and could obviously launch a rocket whenever I want but I am going to fight biters with my son a bit more first. This game is incredible.

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"



I've been slapping together my own mod of sorts as I play now and again, a bit of placeholder art here and there, but I wanted just a little bit of extra stuff to compliment what is essentially still the base factorio experience. Some more options for combat, turrets, crafting machines, solar etc.

One day I'll finish up the texturing, but spare time personal project takes a bit.

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010



Slum Loser posted:

Krastorio adds so many items the menu gets a little crazy (it took me 5 minutes to filter rare metals because I couldn't find them among the 50+ other icons), but it's worth it and makes vanilla highly refreshing by comparison.

That's why there is a search function. You don't really need it in vanilla, because the number of items is low enough, but it really helps here.

Clark Nova
Jul 17, 2004



pointsofdata posted:

Has there been any hint of what the official expansion will be about yet?

there hasn't been any sort of official announcement but they hired the guy who made the space exploration mod

power crystals
Jun 6, 2007

Who wants a belly rub??



I will once again plug https://mods.factorio.com/mod/grand-unified-factorio-theory because I wrote it, and even without Angel/Bob/Yuoki stuff that's the bulk of what it does it can give you more fun ore distributions where there's e.g. a ton of iron and not much uranium, and it can allow player equipment in vehicles even if that's normally not possible. There's no actual new content at all (save some standalone versions of ores from other mods you normally can't find on the world map), it's just a bunch of balance/etc changes that you can toggle on/off as desired.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Finally playing again, this time with mods and God, I didn't realize just how nice electric stone/steel furnaces would be for quality of life. Less hell-belts, more solving interesting problems. Plus I can recycle these down the line forever now that I don't have to worry about eventual coal supplies.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

x-posting from the management thread :

Mayveena posted:

Everyone is totally welcome to ignore me on these rants btw, I'm sure you all are tired of hearing me complain.

I have played 136 hours and never seen trains or bots.



Given that you've put that much time in, you clearly WANT to enjoy the game. You should figure out what's stopping you so you can actually enjoy it instead of spending time hating it. Either that or give up for good. You really don't need to do any complex math for ratios in vanilla, the most complicated things are multiplying by 3.2 (for a whole number result) and dividing by 3. Are you trying to math out whole chains at once? You really don't have to. The easiest way to start is to decide to make 1 of each science per second. Generally speaking, that will be enough that before you finish production for one tech, the next one will finish researching.

I'll use blue science as an example since it's the first moderately complex one. Production takes 24 seconds, but we don't care about that right now. All we care is that 3 red circuits, 2 engines, and 1 sulfur produces 2 blue science. So 1.5 red circuits, 1 engine, and 0.5 sulfur produces 1 blue science, and we want to produce 1 per second so we'll need each of those per second. We start by figuring out the red circuits : it takes 6 seconds to make 1 red circuit. We multiply 1.5x6 and find that we need 9 assemblers to make enough red circuits to feed our blue science. We could go further up the chain if we wanted to, but for now we just decide that if any of the assemblers are starving, we'll look for a belt that empties before the end and that's the thing we need to make more of. Then we move on to engines. It takes 10 seconds to produce an engine, so for 1 engine per second we need 10 engine assemblers. We can see that the materials aren't particularly high, so again we decide not to concern ourselves and just increase production if the engine line is starving. Finally, for sulfur, it takes 1 second to produce 2, and we only need 0.5/s, so we're easily covered on that one. After building this production, we decide it's time to build our actual science assemblers. Remembering that we're targeting 1/s, we see that it takes 24 seconds to make 2. That means we need to build 24/2=12 assemblers to turn our products into blue science. Once that's done, we feed it to our labs. If the belts are backing up with vials even when we're researching, we build more labs.

Note that every one of those steps can be done independently of each other. You really do not need to be juggling some complex chain of ratios in your head. Just focus on one part of the problem at a time.

For every end product that isn't science, generally speaking 1 assembler is enough to keep you fed as a newer player. For everything that is an ingredient, just wing it. You don't know how many green circuits you need, you just know you're either making enough or you need to make more. As long as you leave room to expand out your line of assemblers and room around it to accommodate any infrastructure you may snake in down the line, you're good. Do bother with ratios on miners and furnaces because you should be building those to capacity - i.e. 0.5 mining speed on an electric miner means 30 miners, 15 per side, to saturate a 15 item per second yellow belt. 3.2 seconds to smelt 1 iron ore to iron plate x 15 iron ore per second on a yellow belt / 1 crafting speed of a stone furnace = 48 stone furnaces to empty a yellow belt, which in the case of iron/copper plates will also produce a full yellow output belt. If you don't feel like doing that, you don't even really need to. Just put however many miners on a belt, and at the point where the belt is full and further miners are stopped instead of working, shunt it off to the side and start a new belt. Same thing for furnaces - keep adding more until ore is never getting to the last furnaces even under full throughput, then stop and build another line.

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire

I mean you can plan ratios or you can just slam things down and when something isn't producing as much as you want you trace the shortages and build more of that. I do a weird mix of the two, and everything is always a mess.

IllustriousChen
Feb 16, 2012


Thank you to the peeps that recommended Krastorio 2.

I've sunk the majority of today into it and it's exactly what I was looking for.

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR


K8.0 posted:

x-posting from the management thread :


Given that you've put that much time in, you clearly WANT to enjoy the game. You should figure out what's stopping you so you can actually enjoy it instead of spending time hating it. Either that or give up for good. You really don't need to do any complex math for ratios in vanilla, the most complicated things are multiplying by 3.2 (for a whole number result) and dividing by 3. Are you trying to math out whole chains at once? You really don't have to. The easiest way to start is to decide to make 1 of each science per second. Generally speaking, that will be enough that before you finish production for one tech, the next one will finish researching.

I'll use blue science as an example since it's the first moderately complex one. Production takes 24 seconds, but we don't care about that right now. All we care is that 3 red circuits, 2 engines, and 1 sulfur produces 2 blue science. So 1.5 red circuits, 1 engine, and 0.5 sulfur produces 1 blue science, and we want to produce 1 per second so we'll need each of those per second. We start by figuring out the red circuits : it takes 6 seconds to make 1 red circuit. We multiply 1.5x6 and find that we need 9 assemblers to make enough red circuits to feed our blue science. We could go further up the chain if we wanted to, but for now we just decide that if any of the assemblers are starving, we'll look for a belt that empties before the end and that's the thing we need to make more of. Then we move on to engines. It takes 10 seconds to produce an engine, so for 1 engine per second we need 10 engine assemblers. We can see that the materials aren't particularly high, so again we decide not to concern ourselves and just increase production if the engine line is starving. Finally, for sulfur, it takes 1 second to produce 2, and we only need 0.5/s, so we're easily covered on that one. After building this production, we decide it's time to build our actual science assemblers. Remembering that we're targeting 1/s, we see that it takes 24 seconds to make 2. That means we need to build 24/2=12 assemblers to turn our products into blue science. Once that's done, we feed it to our labs. If the belts are backing up with vials even when we're researching, we build more labs.

Note that every one of those steps can be done independently of each other. You really do not need to be juggling some complex chain of ratios in your head. Just focus on one part of the problem at a time.

For every end product that isn't science, generally speaking 1 assembler is enough to keep you fed as a newer player. For everything that is an ingredient, just wing it. You don't know how many green circuits you need, you just know you're either making enough or you need to make more. As long as you leave room to expand out your line of assemblers and room around it to accommodate any infrastructure you may snake in down the line, you're good. Do bother with ratios on miners and furnaces because you should be building those to capacity - i.e. 0.5 mining speed on an electric miner means 30 miners, 15 per side, to saturate a 15 item per second yellow belt. 3.2 seconds to smelt 1 iron ore to iron plate x 15 iron ore per second on a yellow belt / 1 crafting speed of a stone furnace = 48 stone furnaces to empty a yellow belt, which in the case of iron/copper plates will also produce a full yellow output belt. If you don't feel like doing that, you don't even really need to. Just put however many miners on a belt, and at the point where the belt is full and further miners are stopped instead of working, shunt it off to the side and start a new belt. Same thing for furnaces - keep adding more until ore is never getting to the last furnaces even under full throughput, then stop and build another line.

Thank you. Yes I certainly do want to enjoy it, so many people love it, why don't I?? But these types of calculations are where I get hung up

quote:

All we care is that 3 red circuits, 2 engines, and 1 sulfur produces 2 blue science. So 1.5 red circuits, 1 engine, and 0.5 sulfur produces 1 blue science, and we want to produce 1 per second so we'll need each of those per second.
I stare blankly at those numbers I would not get to the 1.5x6 for example. I even have a graduate degree and I still stare blankly.

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011


I have never done any math while playing Factorio personally. I just add spaghetti until it works. I also don't build logistics drones though because that could eventually fix my spaghetti issues and I don't want that.

The one downside to this approach is that it's barely compatible with the game's voracious appetite for green chips, but it's easy enough to just build a big outpost for manufacturing green chips and feed it iron/copper via train.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Mayveena posted:

Thank you. Yes I certainly do want to enjoy it, so many people love it, why don't I?? But these types of calculations are where I get hung up
I stare blankly at those numbers I would not get to the 1.5x6 for example. I even have a graduate degree and I still stare blankly.

Do not do math in Factorio. Do not. Instead operate by this rule of thumb: if [x] isn't being made fast enough, put more of its ingredients in. If you don't have enough ingredients, go harvest/make more.

Also PLEASE use trains, trains will let you bring in more raw ingredients like ores to your main base. Just set up basic loops and have them fill up on goods and drop 'em off every two minutes.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


The middle ground is to use a mod like Factory Planner, which does all the math for you. It's what I use, personally, because I like perfect ratios but have done enough math already.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Strix's guide to enjoying Factorio:

- turn off biters / or set them to peaceful
- short term goals! pick something like green science and figure out what you need to automate it, then start building towards that.
- NO MATH. if [x] isn't being made fast enough, add more ingredients, repeat.
- do not redesign your base to be more effective midway through. if the base is making stuff, good. let it keep making stuff. instead, expand. if you have a better idea of how a given process should be built now that you know what you're doing, build that instead of replacing what you have.
- optional: get a mod to make ores infinite or set to really high yield, moving to find new patches when you run out is tedious imo.
- keep at it. try to push at building stuff every day, and even small progress is crucial.

trains:
- stick to simple loops, do NOT get into signals. factorio does signals well but you don't need them for just moving basic goods like copper ore around.
- setting up satellite bases on other ore patches to say turn raw iron ore into iron plates and then shipping that home is really fun!

robots:
- making robots useful and effective means unlocking chests waaay high up in the tech tree, so ask about these when you get there.

blueprints:
- never use these. having others solve factorio for you is boring imho, it takes all the joy out of making my own spaghetti base.

This is all for keeping it at simple play where you focus on building up your cool base and making lots of stuff. There's all kinds of ways to scale up play from here but get a handle on the basics first.

Chadzok
Apr 25, 2002



Do the main bus method too if it's all too complicated. Just have a big river of all resources down the centre of your base, with branches of assemblers making new products off to the sides, and then adding them back into the main line on their own belts. Have 2-4 belts of important/frequently used resources (iron/copper/yellow+red chips, etc). If any of the belts run dry, go back to the start and add more inputs.

It's not the most entertaining/efficient way to finish the game, but it's the easiest.

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011


The only commandment you need: make more output machines until adding more doesn't work, in which case make more inputs.

Shlapintogan
Jul 15, 2011



Mayveena posted:

Thank you. Yes I certainly do want to enjoy it, so many people love it, why don't I?? But these types of calculations are where I get hung up

Silly question, I'm sure, but have you played any multiplayer? I used to get hung up on ratios and stuff, but playing with a couple of friends got me to shrug off my perfectionism and push up.

If you haven't, I highly recommend it. Collaborative engineering is super fun and helps highlight where you can improve your own designs.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Mayveena posted:

Thank you. Yes I certainly do want to enjoy it, so many people love it, why don't I?? But these types of calculations are where I get hung up
I stare blankly at those numbers I would not get to the 1.5x6 for example. I even have a graduate degree and I still stare blankly.

How long are you playing it at a time? I'm on my second map now, and I'm finding the perfect way to play for me is to pick ONE specific thing I want to get done or plan out, work towards that, then once I am finished with that single task I close the game down for the moment until I get the urge again and repeat the process. Sometimes this goes for 10 minutes. sometimes over an hour. But explicitly picking one thing to work on at a time has helped me extend my enjoyment of the gameplay a lot. Currently working on purple science with a snaking, snarled tangle of belts all over hell and creation while the now-25% behemoth biter swarms crash repeatedly against my defensive perimeter. I'm having a great time.

edit: my current map:


never get hung up on perfect efficiency, until you're a super pro whatever it'll always be incredibly inefficient to complete things. don't worry about the math besides basic stuff like "this thing needs 30 of this one thing and 1 or 2 of these other things, so I should have a lot more factories pumping out the 30 thing". and if you need more, just branch out some more conveyor belts off to the side and build more. the world is infinite so you'll never run out of space.

for trains all I do is make point A and point B, put a train engine, then 3x cargo or fluid wagons, then a second train engine on the other end of the train, place a train signal at each end, and have the wait conditions be "empty cargo" on the drop-off side and "full cargo" on the pickup side, and maybe a "wait 120 seconds and then go" for more frequent dropoffs, then set it to automatic and let it do its thing forever unperturbed. just set up a coal line to feed the train engines with fuel and you're golden.

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 00:10 on May 23, 2021

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



I've never thought about anything resembling a ratio until like 200 hours in and launching several rockets. For me it was always:

Rosalie_A posted:

The only commandment you need: make more output machines until adding more doesn't work, in which case make more inputs.

It's "oh, my yellow science is but a trickle....ah I'm not making enough low density structures....christ these build slow I guess I need a lot more buildings..."

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR


Solumin posted:

The middle ground is to use a mod like Factory Planner, which does all the math for you. It's what I use, personally, because I like perfect ratios but have done enough math already.

I will try this planner, thanks.

I am a 63 year old Black woman who has zero friends who play these types of games so no multiplayer for me.

Well actually I do have one friend who plays, but he'll just take over and do everything while I watch and that's not the experience I'm looking for.

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR


Chadzok posted:

Do the main bus method too if it's all too complicated. Just have a big river of all resources down the centre of your base, with branches of assemblers making new products off to the sides, and then adding them back into the main line on their own belts. Have 2-4 belts of important/frequently used resources (iron/copper/yellow+red chips, etc). If any of the belts run dry, go back to the start and add more inputs.

It's not the most entertaining/efficient way to finish the game, but it's the easiest.

I'm going to give that a shot, thanks!

Lawnie
Sep 5, 2006

That is my helmet
Give it back
you are a lion
It doesn't even fit


Grimey Drawer

Somebody else said ďdonít use blueprints.Ē I partially disagree: not all of the problems in factorio have to be interesting to you to solve. For those, Iíll just use a blueprint. For example, I donít find it very fun to iteratively stamp stuff down to find the densest possible configuration for it, so I just use a blueprint for arranging solar panels and accumulators that I can stamp out repeatedly as much as I want. On the other hand, spinning up Kovarex enrichment requires you to think how you can incrementally increase the scale of your design, which I found really interesting and engaging for a few hours and so made my own design.

Skiant
Mar 10, 2013


StrixNebulosa posted:

robots:
- making robots useful and effective means unlocking chests waaay high up in the tech tree, so ask about these when you get there.

Everything in that post is holding up, I just wanna nitpick real quick and say that construction robots with a personal roboport allow you to do copy/paste to expand your production lines in a really easy way.

There's even a mod that lets you start the game with a few construction bots and the necessary items to have them work and I don't think I could start a new game without it.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Lawnie posted:

Somebody else said “don’t use blueprints.” I partially disagree: not all of the problems in factorio have to be interesting to you to solve. For those, I’ll just use a blueprint. For example, I don’t find it very fun to iteratively stamp stuff down to find the densest possible configuration for it, so I just use a blueprint for arranging solar panels and accumulators that I can stamp out repeatedly as much as I want. On the other hand, spinning up Kovarex enrichment requires you to think how you can incrementally increase the scale of your design, which I found really interesting and engaging for a few hours and so made my own design.

Railroad crossings are another one where I'd say 100% use blueprints. Sure, you CAN figure it out on your own, but it's inevitably one of the less interesting parts of putting railroads together, and if you're just stamping a grid down like me then all you need is intersections that Just Work. That said I did use a handful of custom intersections, just used blueprints for the main array.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES




Exciting Lemon

It might be fair to say its good to avoid using *other* peoples blueprints until you're either bored or stuck. Like give it 5 minutes first.

Once you have your own favorite designs go hog wild, but you can never recreate that first burst of creativity afterwards.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1396527571660013569?s=19

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

Vestigial logistics.

BMan
Oct 31, 2015

KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK




cruft

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013

Let's go explorin' little dude!


There was a factory here, it's gone now.

Ambaire
Sep 3, 2009

by Shine


Oven Wrangler

Goddamnit. How the gently caress do I actually stick with a modded save instead of every time I take a break, deleting it and starting over entirely. I think I'm literally going insane IRL.

AG3
Feb 4, 2004

Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.



Oven Wrangler

Ambaire posted:

Goddamnit. How the gently caress do I actually stick with a modded save instead of every time I take a break, deleting it and starting over entirely. I think I'm literally going insane IRL.

If you ever discover the secret to resuming old saves after breaks instead of deleting them and starting fresh, let me know.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011



Thomassons are vestigal architecture that is still maintained, stairs that lead to a door thatís been bricked over is the classic example. But these are a little different, theyíre like a walking path that diverged around a tree thatís no longer there. Itís architecture thatís haunted by the ghost of what was.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!



I just think about these as "legacy installations" on the rare occasion when I see and process them during a game of Factorio.

BUT,

Chakan posted:

Thomassons are vestigal architecture that is still maintained, stairs that lead to a door thatís been bricked over is the classic example. But these are a little different, theyíre like a walking path that diverged around a tree thatís no longer there. Itís architecture thatís haunted by the ghost of what was.

Digital-architecture hauntology?!

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



Chakan posted:

Thomassons are vestigal architecture that is still maintained, stairs that lead to a door thatís been bricked over is the classic example. But these are a little different, theyíre like a walking path that diverged around a tree thatís no longer there. Itís architecture thatís haunted by the ghost of what was.
In code terms, this would be something like a call to a function which has had all its code removed and just returns because it was easier that way than finding all the places where the function was used.

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS


Collateral Damage posted:

In code terms, this would be something like a call to a function which has had all its code removed and just returns because it was easier that way than finding all the places where the function was used.

Not necessarily always a sign that something was removed!

In object-oriented programming where the intention is for other parties to later be able to expand on the program functionality without altering the original code, you might deliberately have the program call a class method that simply returns a constant value or the return value of another method, for the purpose of allowing someone to override that method in a subclass with something that contains more complex functionality.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Slashrat posted:

Not necessarily always a sign that something was removed!

In object-oriented programming where the intention is for other parties to later be able to expand on the program functionality without altering the original code, you might deliberately have the program call a class method that simply returns a constant value or the return value of another method, for the purpose of allowing someone to override that method in a subclass with something that contains more complex functionality.

It's like the forward-thinking version of this phenomenon.

Which you can also find in your factories, if you've built your belt layouts to account for future expansion and the like.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Its not a sign that anything was removed (or planned ahead for future expansion) in Factorio either. Don't tell me you've never used undergrounds to finish a connection because you ran out of belts.

I think this is technically archaeology which means the blanket term for physical evidence you can use to infer past behaviors or things is an artifact.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Tenebrais posted:

It's like the forward-thinking version of this phenomenon.

Which you can also find in your factories, if you've built your belt layouts to account for future expansion and the like.

"Building to account for future expansion" may be one of the few things I don't think I've ever done in Factorio, short of building in rail intersections where I'm going to need them. Boy I'm going to have a hell of a time with this revisit.

Hell, I don't even have proper resource smelting yet, nor do I think I'm doing a bus. Hell tangle ahoy. Trains one day at which point all will become better.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DelphiAegis
Jun 21, 2010


SkyeAuroline posted:

Trains one day at which point all will become better.

Narrator voice: It won't.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply